What if Tuvix had been a miserable old git?

[stardream]

"Git' here in the British sense of the word. As in a curmudgeon or cantankerous old coot. You get the picture. What if he combined the absolute worst traits of Tuvox and Neelix? What if he waved his logic around in such an annoying manner that the crew wanted to shoot him out the airlock? What if he constantly left deliberate chaos in his wake but when was called on it acted in a cold dispassionate manner?

Would fans have cared so much? Was it just the fact that he was 'nice' that made people call Janeway a murderer?

 

[Ember]

They make up a petty lie of how he was not allowed to get near them as he'd keep them off their work and the Doctor'd rule him insane so he has no consent either in whether or not he gets changed back. The episode explored moral rights vs needs. Tuvok was essential to Janeway and Neelix had to still earn his stripes. Tuvox wouldn't get a chance to do that, not while they were in the crisis of being 70,000 lightyears from home.

 

[hux]

Nice Tuvix was pretty easy to kill. No need to justify it by making him an arse. I only wish we'd kept Tuvix on board for three or four episodes (maybe more) before they discovered they could reverse the splicing. That would have given the denouement even more impact.

 

[Lynx]

I think that it was enough with one episode to see that he was a rather creepy character.

His behavior to Kes during the whole episode was very creepy.

 

[Jedman67]

It would have been worse if they'd managed to combine Phillips and Russ during the shooting :P

 

[DonIago]

I think that it was enough with one episode to see that he was a rather creepy character.

His behavior to Kes during the whole episode was very creepy.

I'm rather glad we don't live in a world where being considered "creepy" is sufficient grounds for ending another person's life.

Personally I thought it was creepy the way Kes emotionally manipulated Janeway.

 

[JoeZhang]

I think that it was enough with one episode to see that he was a rather creepy character.

His behavior to Kes during the whole episode was very creepy.

But enough about Neelix, this thread is about Tuvix

 

[hux]

Kes convinced Janeway to drag Tuvix kicking and screaming to his death. Kes convinced Janeway to unleash genocide on species 8472.

Kes is creepy. ;-p

Tuvix was a good egg. He agreed to be euthanised when it counted. Sat there and took it. I miss him so.

 

[DonIago]

This mostly-jokingly begs the question to me of whether Kes might have been tapping her psionic powers (not necessarily consciously) to influence the course of events.

 

[Kilana2]

If Tuvix was an odd customer, I don't know how you would call a fusion of other characters. Especially of different sexes. A character named Harry Seven would be interesting. Not to be confused with Gary Seven.

 

[Lynx]

I think that it was enough with one episode to see that he was a rather creepy character.

His behavior to Kes during the whole episode was very creepy.

But enough about Neelix, this thread is about Tuvix

I did find Tuvix more creepy than Neelix.

As for Janeway's decision, she saved two members of her crew, Tuvok and Neelix.

 

[Terok Nor]

I actually found Tuvix creepy too. Not that he deserved to die for it but I see where the creepy comments come from. This episode was really interesting. Janeway did kill Tuvix in my opinion. Tuvok and Neelix had the right to be brought back just as much as Tuvix had the right to exist. It was a huge moral dilemma but like Spock always said "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".

I'm not sure who exactly needed Neelix though. Even Kes kicked him to the curb soon after.

 

[WoTe]

Kes convinced Janeway to drag Tuvix kicking and screaming to his death. Kes convinced Janeway to unleash genocide on species 8472.

Kes is creepy. ;-p

Kes tried to kill the ship. Kes almost burned Tuvok's face off. Kes made the Doctor go mad... twice; once as a Holographic wife and then as a crushing on a guy who cruises space in a dingy. Kes was a warlord's first choice. Kes gives birth from her shoulderblades. Kes eats bugs and has oatmeal hands.

And worst of all, Kes voluntarily dated and kissed Neelix. There's something not right with her. But she's Voyager family anyway.

 

[Go-Captain]

Making Tuvix horrible by taking the worst aspects of Tuvok and Neelix could have been interesting, not to the point of being incompetent, but just horrible. Then we would probably have Janeway resist dividing him for some reason.

Seriously though, having the moral dilemma with an unlikable character could have been interesting. As has been pointed out, there is no moral standard for killing someone who is unlikable, but what if that is a nagging concern in everyone's mind. The key is, everyone is aware of that reason, and they actively resist its allure, because they know it is morally repugnant.

Instead Janeway leans on utilitarian reasoning for her decision to make the split. Yet, while everyone is celebrating Tuvok's return, maybe Neelix's too, Janeway is in a corner brooding. Chakotay approaches to ask what is wrong, and Janeway reveals her ambivalence over what was truly driving her decision. Did utilitarian concerns drive her decision to return Tuvok and Neelix, or did her dislike for Tuvix-git subconciously create her decision first, with the logic following later? Is either reason really better than than the other considering they both lead to the same conclusion? She is racked by doubt, but has enough presence of mind to know she will not change her orders even if she changes her mind. A captain must live by their decisions and be decisive.

 

[Terok Nor]

I think the writers chose the more interesting angle for the story. If Tuvix had been a horrible person it would have made him unsympathetic to the viewers and his death would carry no weight. Making him a nice person is a far more interesting premise to me.

 

[WoTe]

Tuvix ought to been given time to saved the ship in a way neither Neelix nor Tuvok could have done, something brilliant but extremely unorthodox.

Something that says, "Without me, you, and by extension Tuvok and Kneelicks, would have died."

Would have put more spotlight on the decision and less on how selfish Tuvix was being (justifiably, but makes less wiggle room for the audiences' mind to rationalize).

 

[Terok Nor]

They should have created an evil transporter double, Kirk style, separated Tuvok and Neelix and let Evil Tuvix kill Neelix. Job done.

 

[WoTe]

I thought Kneelicks was already evil ???

"Hey Captain, that mineral you're looking for, it's right in that asteroid [sprouting from thousands of dead people. Let's frolic among their decomposing bodily emissions!]"

 

[stardream]

Making Tuvix horrible by taking the worst aspects of Tuvok and Neelix could have been interesting, not to the point of being incompetent, but just horrible. Then we would probably have Janeway resist dividing him for some reason.

Seriously though, having the moral dilemma with an unlikable character could have been interesting. As has been pointed out, there is no moral standard for killing someone who is unlikable, but what if that is a nagging concern in everyone's mind. The key is, everyone is aware of that reason, and they actively resist its allure, because they know it is morally repugnant.

Instead Janeway leans on utilitarian reasoning for her decision to make the split. Yet, while everyone is celebrating Tuvok's return, maybe Neelix's too, Janeway is in a corner brooding. Chakotay approaches to ask what is wrong, and Janeway reveals her ambivalence over what was truly driving her decision. Did utilitarian concerns drive her decision to return Tuvok and Neelix, or did her dislike for Tuvix-git subconciously create her decision first, with the logic following later? Is either reason really better than than the other considering they both lead to the same conclusion? She is racked by doubt, but has enough presence of mind to know she will not change her orders even if she changes her mind. A captain must live by their decisions and be decisive.

This is the idea at the heart of my rather silly opening post. Is there something in us that says we must save the 'pretty' or the' pleasant' person over the not so pretty or pleasant. (I'm not saying Tuvix was 'pretty' but work with me here).

Would the fans have been so upset? Would this episode have been so controversial? Would there have been a collective "Good Riddance!"

 

[DonIago]

I dunno, after the Kes-Janeway conversation I kind of got the feeling that "we don't like him as much" actually -was- a factor in the decision. It's one of the things that annoys me about the resolution.

As much as Janeway's post-procedure reaction helps, I really wish we'd gotten more time to see Our Heroes processing what they'd just gone through.