Refugees in the EU

[Kilana2]

About 800.000 refugees per year are going to seek asylum in Germany.

Many more try to find safety and protection in other countries.

Many suffer from PTSD and have other health issues.

There is a xenophobic movement (not only extremists) in Germany taking up a stance against refugee relief efforts.

Each country can only support and protect a certain number of asylum seekers. But attacking them physically or destroying their (temporary) homes (sports halls, tents, later on buildings) is a crying shame for a rich country like Germany.

German actor Til Schweiger had a verbal clash with the opponents (via Facebook) and wants to fund a home for refugees. He is not only criticized, but obviously attacked for it.
I'm not a Schweiger fan, but his support for people in distress is commendable.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Yeah it is shameful!

And the people crying for a stop to the refugee "problem" have no alternative solution. As long as they are not affected they would let those people perish in agony without giving it a second thought.
None of them want to be associated with naziism. They have nothing against foreigners but damn them if they dare to come here and take up our space! they get angry if called racists, but Germany for Germans only and the islamification of the western world (which is imaginery) needs to be stopped.

They have learned nothing from history.

And many of them benefit from welfare solutions we have here in Germany while denying those same benefits to others just because they don't own a German passport.

it is ridiculous!

We have a responsibility for these people. our society contributed to the instable state of those war torn nations.

We should work toward stabilizing those regions and help pacify them.
And it is not Germany`s responsiblity alone., that's what the EU and the UN is for!
but in the meantime we have to live with the consequences of our societies exploitive nature and own up to it!

 

[Kilana2]

Fears that refugees might take away jobs are ridiculous. They don't have a work permit. And for those who stay longer: if there is one of the migrants who is a medical doctor and has learned the German language well and has all the permissions he/she needs to word as a doctor, why not give him/her the job. You can't give it to an unemployed mechanic. Skilled and specialized people are needed. You can't take those who are not properly qualified.

 

[Count Zero]

The notion that a nation's economy will invariably suffer from an influx of refugees is deeply flawed because it surmises that the economy is a zero-sum-game which isn't true. More often than not, immigrants and refugees will contribute to the economy (if you let them). Many of the Syrian refugees are actually well-educated (often academics) already, anyway.
I also question that number of 800,000 people expected to seek asylum here. The number of actual applications until July was 218,000. In the autimn and winter months, fewer people will cross the Mediterranean, so I'd expect it to be more like 400,000 to 500,000 by the end of the year.
But a country of 80 million people should be able to absorb 800,000 or even a million people. It was clear that the numbers would grow this year but in many parts of the country the authorities didn't prepare. That's why we now have tent camps which don't even live up to WHO standards (like in Dresden Jenfeld) and people having to live in gyms and abandoned stores for months without any personal privacy. Or having to sleep rough because there is no room for them even in these places or because their processing takes so long (like in Trier and in Berlin).
And then, there are all those people who can't bear to let them have even that. It makes me so angry. We are currently experiencing a wave of right-wing terrorism (mostly confined to destroying buildings instead of people for the moment, thankfully). I don't think authorities will really crack down on those responsible, especially not in Saxony, and I'm scared of where this will lead us.

 

[horatio83]

Fears that refugees might take away jobs are ridiculous. They don't have a work permit. And for those who stay longer: if there is one of the migrants who is a medical doctor and has learned the German language well and has all the permissions he/she needs to word as a doctor, why not give him/her the job. You can't give it to an unemployed mechanic. Skilled and specialized people are needed. You can't take those who are not properly qualified.

In the case of refugees who do not work yes, but in the case of migration in general this is not totally correct.
Most studies of Western countries come to the conclusion that immigration has mildly positive effects upon GDP. But in the low-wage sector migration of unqualified people obviously implies some additional competition for the "incumbents". The quantitative effects of it are neglibile though and certainly hardly a reason for working class racism.
About refugees who do not work, they obviously only cost money. On the political debate level the trick is to not deny this but also point out the nonsensical stuff which is publically financed and costs far more money. Furthermore we might wanna actually strive to create solidarity of working class people with refugees via blaming the rich cats (we workers / we victims of war vs. these evil capitalist / lords of war) and so on but good luck finding left-wing populists nowadays. If you phrase the issue only moralistically and in terms of political correctness it is inevitable that your efforts to reduce racism will be counterproductive.

Frankly speaking, I have a hard time to condemn this kind of racism for two reasons. First, the Left has totally neglected the working class for decades (gee, most of the academic middle-class left doesn't even use the word working class anymore) and nowadays only right-wing populists adress their problems. Second, the effects of the racism of everyday people has far less effects upon the well-being of refugees than the strctural racism on the European policy level.

 

[Kilana2]

Dead refugees were found on an Austrian highway, abandoned by people smugglers. Again a crying shame. I'm speechless.

 

[EmoBorg]

We have a responsibility for these people. our society contributed to the instable state of those war torn nations.

We should work toward stabilizing those regions and help pacify them.
And it is not Germany`s responsiblity alone., that's what the EU and the UN is for!
but in the meantime we have to live with the consequences of our societies exploitive nature and own up to it!

How did Modern Germany contribute to the unstable situation in countries like syria,yemen and various other african nations.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

We have a responsibility for these people. our society contributed to the instable state of those war torn nations.

We should work toward stabilizing those regions and help pacify them.
And it is not Germany`s responsiblity alone., that's what the EU and the UN is for!
but in the meantime we have to live with the consequences of our societies exploitive nature and own up to it!

How did Modern Germany contribute to the unstable situation in countries like syria,yemen and various other african nations.

Weapons Exports

 

[Naira]

Illegal immigration in Europe has been a huge problem for years; it is now gaining publicity due to the overwhelming amount of refugees being added to the illegal immigrants entering EU.

Most European countries are only now starting to realize the issue because they cannot avoid it anymore. Up to know, EU policy was to restrict immigrants in some countries (mainly Greece and Italy) and ignore the problem. This is not possible anymore due to the vast numbers of people arriving every day.

I firmly believe that the only viable solution is to actively work towards stability in the countries of those people. As long as war and poverty are there, people will flee, it is only natural. What other alternatives are there? In my country, for example, there are no jobs or social care for residents anymore; how can we provide for more people when Greeks themselves are migrating to other countries for work?

I have been pleasantly surprised by many people around me who are trying to assist all those refugees that are staying in Athens. I have heard stories from the islands on the borders that are even more moving. But relying on the kindness of people is not enough. We need a structured, formal, political way to deal with the situation.

The worse issue for me is the popularity of extreme right-wing beliefs that seem to feed on this problem and are rising in Europe. This is something we will have to deal with very shortly I'm afraid.

 

[MacLeod]

^Well when people think they are not being listened to be their elected officals some will move towards the extremes on bot the right and left of the political spectrum.

 

[Hound of UIster]

We have a responsibility for these people. our society contributed to the instable state of those war torn nations.

We should work toward stabilizing those regions and help pacify them.
And it is not Germany`s responsiblity alone., that's what the EU and the UN is for!
but in the meantime we have to live with the consequences of our societies exploitive nature and own up to it!

How did Modern Germany contribute to the unstable situation in countries like syria,yemen and various other african nations.

1) The intervention in Libya had funding from Germany.

2) Syria, lots of German arms shipped there by the German gov.

I think it's more shameful America has accepted less refugees from places like Iraq in comparison to smaller European nations despite being totally complicit in what happened.

 

[horatio83]

I firmly believe that the only viable solution is to actively work towards stability in the countries of those people. As long as war and poverty are there, people will flee, it is only natural.

Climate change will wreak havoc upon biosystems and this lead to mass migration in this century. So we better prepare for a world in which mass migration happens on a regular basis.
It is not like this has never happened during history but mostly it has been a pretty violent business.
In my opinion we need a third option which will enable us to deal with mass migration and peacefully live together beyond the usual poles of xenophobic racism and liberal multiculturalism. The former is obviously wrong and the latter doesn't work respectively reinforces the former (it is precisely the centrist/ left-liberal politicians in Europe who are looking down on the working class and have thus "gifted" them to the proto-fascists).

 

[Gryffindorian]

Send them over to the U.S. Problem solved

 

[stardream]

Send them over to the U.S. Problem solved

We would take them of course but I'm not sure they would want to come here.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Send them over to the U.S. Problem solved

What?

 

[eyeresist]

Has anyone pointed out that the huge rise in refugees is due to the rise of ISIL, around Syria but also in the southern Mediterranean?

 

[Naira]

I firmly believe that the only viable solution is to actively work towards stability in the countries of those people. As long as war and poverty are there, people will flee, it is only natural.

Climate change will wreak havoc upon biosystems and this lead to mass migration in this century. So we better prepare for a world in which mass migration happens on a regular basis. [...] In my opinion we need a third option which will enable us to deal with mass migration and peacefully live together beyond the usual poles of xenophobic racism and liberal multiculturalism.

You do have a point here and I agree with your way of thinking. There is a key difference, however, between natural and "man-made" disasters, in the sense that the latter can be managed in political ways. I would love a peacefully-live-together solution. Sadly, I think that we (as a species) are still far away from that way of thinking. Until then, I wish we were more caring and people's well-being was more valuable than it is now; that involves finding more non-weapon-selling ways to make money. (I hope my last sentence makes sense.)

 

[SPCTRE]

I have a hard time to condemn this kind of racism

 

[Kai "the spy"]

^^Context is everything. horatio83 made it clear that this racism is bad, but that the development of racism in the lower working-class is a result of a lack of understandable explanations and solutions on the left, while the right have no problem getting their message across.

By context, it was clear that he didn't mean he didn't condemn racism, but he had a hard time condemnig followers of this particular racism, because they are simply poorly educated.

 

[Hound of UIster]

Has anyone pointed out that the huge rise in refugees is due to the rise of ISIL, around Syria but also in the southern Mediterranean?

That may be indeed true for Syria (where a large portion of these refugee come from) or even Iraq, but hardly the case for places like Eritrea or Afghanistan (where the bigger threat seems to be the Taliban).