Choose One: Matt Jefferies or Wah Chang?

[Albertese]

I was looking at some ships, the three famous ones from Trek, the Enterprise the Klingon D-7 and the Romulan Bird of Prey. The E and the Klingon ship are both so iconic and look great from every angle. I mean every angle. I have models in my hands and turn them every way. The Bird of Prey is no less iconic and it looks good from a number of angles, but from some directions, I dunno, the thing just looks a little dopey.

It's similar with hand props. Chang made the pistols for "The Cage" and I always thought they were pretty cool, but Jefferies phaser design is just so much cooler.

Now, don't get me wrong, I love WC's creature stuff (great stuff on The Outer Limits also). But for the hard edged stuff, I think I would choose MJ if I could only have one.

What do you all think?

--Alex

 

[Maurice]

I think we don't know who actually designed the BOP since no sketches of it have ever surfaced.

 

[Warped9]

I believe Wah Chang is widely acknowledged as designing the BoP although I, too, would like to see sketches.

But given a choice I have to go with Matt Jefferies. Indeed it would have been interesting to see what he might have come up with for the Romulan BoP.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The BOP works better as a stolen Starfleet ship than it does as an original Romulan design.

 

[BillJ]

The BOP works better as a stolen Starfleet ship than it does as an original Romulan design.

This.

The nacelles were too similar to the one's Starfleet ships were sporting.

Thread topic? Matt Jefferies, without a doubt.

 

[Warped9]

The BOP works better as a stolen Starfleet ship than it does as an original Romulan design.

It could have been an interesting angle to have discussed. In Blish's adaptation McCoy (I believe) does mention "Their ships even look like ours." Possibly it was an idea in an earlier script draft and they dropped it as they progressed.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The BOP works better as a stolen Starfleet ship than it does as an original Romulan design.

This.

The nacelles were too similar to the one's Starfleet ships were sporting.

Thread topic? Matt Jefferies, without a doubt.

Yep, almost every element looks similar to the Enterprise. The D-7 is a better design because of it's differences. So I'm on Team Jefferies.

 

[mach7]

I believe the original story draft had the Romulans using stolen StarFleet technology.
That explains the nacelles and the sort of saucer shape.

As to the thread topic, while I love the design of the Communicator and the Tricorder,
The simple, clean, artistic beauty of the phaser and the Enterprise make Matt Jefferies the winner in my mind.

 

[SonicRanger]

The BOP works better as a stolen Starfleet ship than it does as an original Romulan design.

It could have been an interesting angle to habe discussed. In Blish's adaptation McCoy (I believe) does mention "Their ships even look like ours." Possibly it was an idea in an earlier script draft and they dropped it as they progressed.

There was indeed cut dialog about the possibility of Starfleet ships' designs having been stolen. This, then, ties into Stiles' comments about there possibly being Romulan spies aboard, which otherwise comes out of left field.

Here's the cut dialog from the script:

In the script, after Hanson turns his viewscreen on so the Enterprise can tie in and see what he is seeing, we get this:

INSERT - SHIP'S VIEWING SCREEN

The attacking vessel can now be seen definitely to be some modified version of a starship saucer main section... but with the dark markings on its underside which suggests a bird-of-prey with half-spread wings. And centered there is a threatening-looking "weapon tube" device. We see it in full size only momentarily... then it launches a torpedo-like bolt of blinding energy from the weapons tube.

HANSON'S VOICE
You see it, Enterprise?! Starship
design. Warn Earth...
(STATIC CRACKLE)
... espionage, stolen our designs... traitors...

Then later, before the reveal of the Romulans, Kirk and Stiles' exchange in the script is:

STILES
(interrupting)
... and in a vessel remarkably similar
to ours. The Outpost Commander
mentioned "espionage." Add to that
the fact it was a sneak attack...

KIRK
Are you questioning my orders,
Mister Stiles?

STILES
Negative, sir. I'm pointing out that
we don't even know what the
Romulans look like, maybe just like
us. We could have Romulans aboard
our own ship.

 

[Maurice]

Here's the cut dialog from the script:

In the script, after Hanson turns his viewscreen on so the Enterprise can tie in and see what he is seeing, we get this:

INSERT - SHIP'S VIEWING SCREEN

The attacking vessel can now be seen definitely to be some modified version of a starship saucer main section... but with the dark markings on its underside which suggests a bird-of-prey with half-spread wings. And centered there is a threatening-looking "weapon tube" device. We see it in full size only momentarily... then it launches a torpedo-like bolt of blinding energy from the weapons tube.

HANSON'S VOICE
You see it, Enterprise?! Starship
design. Warn Earth...
(STATIC CRACKLE)
... espionage, stolen our designs... traitors...

Then later, before the reveal of the Romulans, Kirk and Stiles' exchange in the script is:

STILES
(interrupting)
... and in a vessel remarkably similar
to ours. The Outpost Commander
mentioned "espionage." Add to that
the fact it was a sneak attack...

KIRK
Are you questioning my orders,
Mister Stiles?

STILES
Negative, sir. I'm pointing out that
we don't even know what the
Romulans look like, maybe just like
us. We could have Romulans aboard
our own ship.

And you are quoting that from where/whom?

 

[GNDN18]

And you are quoting that from where/whom?

http://www.orionpressfanzines.com/articles/balanceofterror.htm

http://startrekhistory.com/DS3.html

 

[TheSubCommander]

The BOP works better as a stolen Starfleet ship than it does as an original Romulan design.

I had always thought the Romulan BOP was a little bit too Star fleet looking, myself. After the Romulan BOP made its appearance on Star Trek Enterprise, where it looked radically different, I personally chalked the TOS version up to the Romulans incorporating Star fleet-inspired designs into their ships.

 

[Warped9]

It's more likely the writer's of ENT were completely unaware of the original intent behind the design and a more alien design was used. I don't really mean that as a criticism because I think the ENT BoP is one of the very few things I like out of the series, but it looks more like it belongs in the TMP era.

 

[TheSubCommander]

It's more likely the writer's of ENT were completely unaware of the original intent behind the design and a more alien design was used. I don't really mean that as a criticism because I think the ENT BoP is one of the very few things I like out of the series, but it looks more like it belongs in the TMP era.

I doubt it. The Romulan BOP (or R-BOP for short?) that appeared in Enterprise was clearly inspired by the TOS-era Romulan BOP, but with color and styling of the TNG era Romulan ships, like the Warbird. But I agree, the ENT era R-BOP is far cooler than the TOS version. I don't know that it is appropriate for TMP era only, but it definitely makes the TOS era R-BOP the odd man out, as far as Romulan designs we see.

But it is interesting you bring up the idea of a TMP era BOP, because I seem to remember that originally, the Klingon BOP (K-BOP)that appears in TSFS (and later movies and series) was originally written to be a Romulan ship, stolen by the Klingons. And really, given the green coloring, and the fact that the Valdore-Class Romulan Warbird from Nemesis resembles a K'Vort class K-BOP, it might actually have made sense if the K-BOP were originally of Romulan design. Makes sense to me, since there was a Klingon-Romulan alliance in the TOS era.

 

[Mudd]

Jefferies is obviously - IMO - indispensable to TOS.

 

[Maurice]

And you are quoting that from where/whom?

http://www.orionpressfanzines.com/articles/balanceofterror.htm

http://startrekhistory.com/DS3.html

That was my nudge at SonicRanger to include attribution.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Why would I choose one over the other? Both contributed to what became the look of the original series in different ways. I'd want them both on the team.

 

[Admiral2]

The BOP works better as a stolen Starfleet ship than it does as an original Romulan design.

This.

The nacelles were too similar to the one's Starfleet ships were sporting.

Thread topic? Matt Jefferies, without a doubt.

Yep, almost every element looks similar to the Enterprise. The D-7 is a better design because of it's differences. So I'm on Team Jefferies.

Actually, the differences are superficial. Jefferies used the same design philosophy to create both ships. Both Enterprise and D-7 have separate command hulls, secondary hulls and FTL drives mounted outboard on the secondary hulls. Essentially, it's as if Klingons and Humans approached the same problems the same way, and the resulting ships are only cosmetically different. By that standard, the Romulan ship is clearly different, despite the appearance of the engine nacelles.

Still, I'm on Team Jefferies.

 

[Richard Baker]

Both the Constitution Class and the Klingon d-7 look to have a lot more thought put into their design- the RBoP appears to be quickly done for that one episode.
IMO the RBoPs which appeared on Enterprise look too advanced to be the predecessors of the ship we saw in Balance of Terror.
If I had to choose in terms of ship design contributions I must say Jefferies hands down.

 

[Nerys Myk]

This.

The nacelles were too similar to the one's Starfleet ships were sporting.

Thread topic? Matt Jefferies, without a doubt.

Yep, almost every element looks similar to the Enterprise. The D-7 is a better design because of it's differences. So I'm on Team Jefferies.

Actually, the differences are superficial. Jefferies used the same design philosophy to create both ships. Both Enterprise and D-7 have separate command hulls, secondary hulls and FTL drives mounted outboard on the secondary hulls. Essentially, it's as if Klingons and Humans approached the same problems the same way, and the resulting ships are only cosmetically different. By that standard, the Romulan ship is clearly different, despite the appearance of the engine nacelles.

Still, I'm on Team Jefferies.

I'm thinking more in terms of art. Shapes and what they say. The Enterprise is a combination of circles and cylinders with clean round lines. The D-7 is a combination of triangles, rectangles and ovals with sharp hard lines. The BOP falls more into the Enterprise aesthetic. You could lop off the wings and place it on a Starfleet secondary hull and it wouldn't look out of place. Place it next to the Reliant or the NX-01 and you'd think they were part of the same "family".