Paul Cornell to write Doctor Who crossover for Titan

[kirk55555]

and what was up with the stupid electrical sparks from the fingers? That never happened in any of the specials

Blinovitch Limitation Effect.

Which has never shown up before, and isn't explained. Technobabble doesn't cut it, especially since we've seen numerous Doctor team ups before without it.

Also, why isn't the 10th Doctor post-Day of The Doctor?

Because he's not. Titan's tenth Doctor series takes place post-"The Next Doctor"/pre-"Planet of the Dead." In the first story arc, the Doctor is mopey because of Donna and he doesn't want to take anyone else with him in time and space. Gabby wins him over.

Yeah, I guess I already knew that. I guess I've just surpressed the horrible Titan DW comics better than I thought.

I know 11 can't be

There's no reason why you can't have stories between "Day" and "Time of the Doctor." They don't directly lead into one another. That said, for the eleventh Doctor, these stories take place during the Ponds' honeymoon period.

Actually, it really couldn't be post DOTD for the 11th. He was wearing his original Series 5-7A costume during both the Titan 11th Doctor series and this crossover, meaning this story must have taken place before Amy/Rory were gone. If it was post that, he'd be wearing his Series 7B costume.

I also can't help thinking that this would have been better if the writer had been able to use good DW companions for 10 and 11. Rose/Captain Jack and Amy would have been 1000 better than Bland Female Companion #1 and #2. Not that it would have helped the nonsensical story, but it would have at least been a point in the story's favor. I'll read the next issue, but this issue was almost unreadable it made so little sense.

Gabby and Alice aren't that bland if you're read the tenth and eleventh Doctor series, though Gabby doesn't have quite the edge that Alice does.

Oh, i read the 11th and 10th Doctor comics. Well, as much of them as I could stomach. They're both horrible books and the companions make Martha look like Donna or Amy in comparison. The crossover story doesn't need to involve them. The story doesn't need to connect the three dreadful ongoing DW books, it could be its own thing.

The fact that a few mediocre writers are putting out some of the worst 10th and 11th doctor stories I've ever seen doesn't need to automatically ruin this crossover. I understand why they're doing it, I just think it sucks. If the two comic companions were compared to all of the tV companions, they'd be the worst written ones ever, and I'm including both Mel and Series 8 Clara in that statement.

None of this addresses the fact that the actual story of the comic is a garbled, confusing mess. I was just wishing that we'd see some real companions. They wouldn't have helped, but it would have been something.

 

[Turtletrekker]

What? A Dr. Who story that doesn't make sense after only one act? Impossible!

 

[kirk55555]

What? A Dr. Who story that doesn't make sense after only one act? Impossible!

Well, I've seen all of NuWho, and I've yet to see an episode that was this confusing 1/4th of the way through. The same goes for the ClassicWho I've seen. Even the worst episodes usually give you at least a bit of coherent set up when you're a quarter of the way through. This barely sets up the premise, and only then all I could decipher is "Clara meets bland people and tries to either change a fixed point in time or tries to keep it intact, I'm not sure which, oh and the Doctor's can't meet, for some reason".

Paul Cornell is an awesome writer of Marvel and DC superhero comics, but he should really not have been hired for this job. He's just not very good at writing for Doctor Who. And yes, I know he's written Doctor Who before, I guess its not a surprise that the writer of my two most hated NuWho episodes (Human Nature/The Family of Blood) writes a bad Doctor who comic. Admittedly I liked Fathers Day, but I think that was a fluke. If I hadn't read his awesome Marvel and Dc work, I'd think he had never written anything in his life.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I keep forgeting you're one of the few people on the planet who hates one of DW's best stories, let alone two-parters.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Blinovitch Limitation Effect.

It's been mentioned lots since 1972.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

He obviously means that the said effect hadn't been displayed before during the other multi-Doctor stories. I mean, the Third Doctor grabs the Second by the hand at one point, and the first three Doctors hold hands in The Five Doctors' climax.

 

[MacLeod]

He obviously means that the said effect hadn't been displayed before during the other multi-Doctor stories. I mean, the Third Doctor grabs the Second by the hand at one point, and the first three Doctors hold hands in The Five Doctors' climax.

Yes but they aren't the same temporal versions, the effect might come into play if say two different versions of the 5th Doctor touched each other.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Yes but they aren't the same temporal versions, the effect might come into play if say two different versions of the 5th Doctor touched each other.

Sure. Though I'm not sure if that effect did occur in The Wrong Doctors.

 

[kirk55555]

He obviously means that the said effect hadn't been displayed before during the other multi-Doctor stories. I mean, the Third Doctor grabs the Second by the hand at one point, and the first three Doctors hold hands in The Five Doctors' climax.

Yeah. I was just saying that other Doctor's have physically interacted before, and nothing happened, so I need more of an explanation then the BS technobabble the writer put in because he thought it would be a cool scene (it wasn't).

He obviously means that the said effect hadn't been displayed before during the other multi-Doctor stories. I mean, the Third Doctor grabs the Second by the hand at one point, and the first three Doctors hold hands in The Five Doctors' climax.

Yes but they aren't the same temporal versions, the effect might come into play if say two different versions of the 5th Doctor touched each other.

Maybe, but that didn't happen. The 10th Doctor touched the 11th Doctor. Two different incarnations, yet that weird thing happened. So, it still doesn't make any sense.

I keep forgeting you're one of the few people on the planet who hates one of DW's best stories, let alone two-parters.

When a two parter has almost no scenes with The Doctor actually in it, I tend to hate it. Its the longest Doctor-lite episode in the series history (not David Tennant-lite, Doctor-lite). A ninety minute story that has The Doctor in all of, what, a minute and a half of the episode? And in his place David Tennant takes part in a generic period piece, with a few aliens thrown in? Yeah, there's a reason I don't watch British period pieces, especially when they pretend to be Doctor Who episodes. I don't know why there is a pilot for a new BBC period drama in the middle of series 3 of Doctor Who, but I'm glad it wasn't picked up

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

You're missing the point. That IS the Doctor in those scenes. A Doctor who became human and lived his life as one. The drama lies in the fact that the Doctor liked his human self, and was considering giving up his Time Lord self for a life where he could belong, and not live with the constant regret of what he did to his people and how he's the last one of his race. The subtext is palpable and meaningful as its the Doctor in another light.

 

[Christopher]

I wouldn't say that John Smith is the Doctor; rather, he's a fictitious persona created by the Doctor. There are aspects of the Doctor in him, but he's still very different from the Doctor by design. Even so, the Doctor made himself different and chose to remake himself in that way -- and John Smith, the man who falls in love and asserts his right to exist as more than a construct, is an unintended consequence of the Doctor's decision. John Smith's story is thus informed and shaped by the Doctor's choices, so it's missing the point to say that the story isn't about the Doctor. On the contrary, it allows exploring questions of the Doctor's identity and nature -- and the human-level impact of his arrogant choices -- in a way that could not otherwise have been done. That makes it even more about the Doctor than a typical story where the Doctor's a constant presence.

 

[Ithekro]

In Doctor Who, the story is usually about what is going on around the Doctor, or the Companion. It is very rarely a story about the Doctor.

 

[Christopher]

In Doctor Who, the story is usually about what is going on around the Doctor, or the Companion. It is very rarely a story about the Doctor.

Good point. I think it's more often about the Doctor in the modern series than in the classic one, though.

In the First Doctor era, the Doctor was essentially a supporting character. Originally, Ian and Barbara were the leads, and the Doctor was both a mentor/adviser figure and a catalyst for trouble and conflict, often making selfish or irresponsible decisions that put the TARDIS crew in danger. The lead role gradually shifted from the companions to the Doctor over the following years.

 

[Ithekro]

The show's only constant is the Doctor, and he's not even all that constant (different faces, personalities and the like). Even the TARDIS isn't as constantly there. It is basically not very useful for the first half of the Third Doctor's era, and in a few stories in the Fourth Doctor era, it isn't there for the story. The Doctor and companions traveling by other means and having the TARDIS catch up later.

 

[kirk55555]

You're missing the point. That IS the Doctor in those scenes. A Doctor who became human and lived his life as one. The drama lies in the fact that the Doctor liked his human self, and was considering giving up his Time Lord self for a life where he could belong, and not live with the constant regret of what he did to his people and how he's the last one of his race. The subtext is palpable and meaningful as its the Doctor in another light.

That was the problem. I can't see any incarnation of The Doctor even remotely considering giving up being a Timelord. For all of his lip service about how a "normal life" is amazing that the last few nuWho Doctors tried to say to humans sometimes, I don't see any of them as actually wanting that themselves, not even 10 at his most depressed. The entire premise of that two parter was off because of that, the fact that it was tremendously boring and badly written is almost secondary. No Doctor wants to stop traveling and be a human. That is beyond stupid. The Doctor nearly lost it being trapped on Earth in his 3rd incarnation. The fact that a moronic story tried to imply it just means the writer sucks at writing Doctor Who and RTD needed to reign in his writers better.

I honestly really like Paul Cornell, when he's writing for DC and Marvel Comics. He just needs to stay far, far away from the Doctor.

 

[The Wormhole]

^^Do you realize that not only is Human Nature an adaptation of a Doctor Who novel, it is in fact one of the more popular novels of the Virgin New Adventures line, if not one of the most popular in general? Indeed, that's why RTD chose it to be adapted.

And yes, the novel was also written by Cornell, it features the Seventh Doctor.

 

[Christopher]

Even the TARDIS isn't as constantly there. It is basically not very useful for the first half of the Third Doctor's era, and in a few stories in the Fourth Doctor era, it isn't there for the story. The Doctor and companions traveling by other means and having the TARDIS catch up later.

That was because of one of the infamous labor (or labour) disputes among unions at the BBC, as I understand it. The props department and the special effects department each insisted that the TARDIS console (with its rising/falling time rotor) was the other department's responsibility, so in order to avoid the issue, Tom Baker's first season was done without any TARDIS interior shots. This is also why, a couple of seasons later, they had the Doctor set up camp in the "secondary console room" with wood paneling and a simpler, far more retro central console without any moving parts.

That was the problem. I can't see any incarnation of The Doctor even remotely considering giving up being a Timelord. For all of his lip service about how a "normal life" is amazing that the last few nuWho Doctors tried to say to humans sometimes, I don't see any of them as actually wanting that themselves, not even 10 at his most depressed.

Good grief, you don't even remember the premise of the story you're condemning. The Doctor wasn't "depressed." In the novel, he became human as an experiment, in hopes of better understanding his companion's grief at losing a loved one. In the episode, he was being hunted down by deadly aliens who could sense his Time Lord essence, and so he needed to disguise himself as a human so they couldn't find him. You have no business judging something you don't understand. Your own ignorance is not a license to call other people stupid.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Actually, it really couldn't be post DOTD for the 11th. He was wearing his original Series 5-7A costume during both the Titan 11th Doctor series and this crossover, meaning this story must have taken place before Amy/Rory were gone. If it was post that, he'd be wearing his Series 7B costume.

I think you missed my point. I knew when Titan set their comics in the eleventh Doctor's lifetime; I placed them precisely in my post. I was simply pointing out that there's no reason why the Doctor can't have adventures without Clara between "Day" and "Time," and had Titan decided to set the Alice/Jones/ARC stories there, there wouldn't have been any significant reason why they couldn't.

Oh, i read the 11th and 10th Doctor comics. Well, as much of them as I could stomach. They're both horrible books and the companions make Martha look like Donna or Amy in comparison. The crossover story doesn't need to involve them. The story doesn't need to connect the three dreadful ongoing DW books, it could be its own thing.

To this point in Four Doctors we can't say that any of that is true. The story may well "need to involve them" by the end. And it may well need to connect the three books you describe as "dreadful."

I'm also curious why you think they're "dreadful." Even the one I enjoy the least -- the twelfth Doctor series -- I still find competent at worst.

None of this addresses the fact that the actual story of the comic is a garbled, confusing mess. I was just wishing that we'd see some real companions. They wouldn't have helped, but it would have been something.

I would point out that we've only seen twenty percent of the story thus far. At twenty percent, this is already way ahead of the Star Trek crossover after two issues and twenty-five percent.

 

[kirk55555]

Good grief, you don't even remember the premise of the story you're condemning. The Doctor wasn't "depressed." In the novel, he became human as an experiment, in hopes of better understanding his companion's grief at losing a loved one. In the episode, he was being hunted down by deadly aliens who could sense his Time Lord essence, and so he needed to disguise himself as a human so they couldn't find him. You have no business judging something you don't understand. Your own ignorance is not a license to call other people stupid.

I actually knew that. I was aware that the episodes were about the Doctor turning into a human to hide from aliens, and had nothing to do with him being "depressed". I was just saying that I couldn't see the 10th Doctor, even in the parts of his time where we have seen him mopey or depressed (like after Donna left), ever wanting to quit being a timelord. The novel sounds even worse, so I'm glad I've never read it.

Also, I can call stories stupid if I want, and I have no problem with doing that. I have not (as far as I know) called a real person stupid in this thread, so I don't see the big deal. I did call Cornell's Doctor who work stupid, and I said he was a bad Doctor who writer, but that's fairly normal when people talk about things they don't like. I didn't say he was personally stupid. Some writers can't write certain subjects well. A lot of of my favorite writers put out junk sometimes. I think Cornell is, overall, good at writing, I just think his Doctor Who work is generally bad.

Oh, i read the 11th and 10th Doctor comics. Well, as much of them as I could stomach. They're both horrible books and the companions make Martha look like Donna or Amy in comparison. The crossover story doesn't need to involve them. The story doesn't need to connect the three dreadful ongoing DW books, it could be its own thing.

To this point in Four Doctors we can't say that any of that is true. The story may well "need to involve them" by the end. And it may well need to connect the three books you describe as "dreadful."

I'm also curious why you think they're "dreadful." Even the one I enjoy the least -- the twelfth Doctor series -- I still find competent at worst.

They were extremely boring, The Doctors weren't really in character, and the companions were horrible. One of them (I can't remember if it was the 10th or 11th Doctor's book) I gave up on after they wrote an issue from the companions perspective, like she was writing in a journal or something. That was the last straw with that one.

There was also the stupid story of the boring artist in a coma/suspended animation, and her evil apprentice that was just boring. That may have been the story told from the companions perspective, actually. I can barely separate the runs in my head they're so bad in such a dull way. I know I slightly liked the companion whose family had a laundromat better than the other companion who basically complained the whole time and didn't seem like she actually wanted to travel with the Doctor. I also remember the failed musician and his general pointlessness. Everything else I can barely remember, because it was just bland. No memorable villains or story.

I will point out that I'm actually reading and liking the 9th Doctor's mini series from Titan. It happens to have Rose and Captain Jack, and the story is actually entertaining. So, Titan can put out a good Dr who comic, as long as its a mini series, I guess.