In hindsight do you wish TNG had ended with "All Good Things"?

[Marsden]

Well, going down a what if road, I would have liked Lore to have built B4 rather than just another Soong android, how many did he make? Was he planning on defeating the Globetrotters with an all android team?

Also, I would have liked Sela to be behind making that clone, even if she wasn't in the movie, I would have enjoyed that just a little better.

But these are kind of stupid, I admit.

I just think a common complaint about the movies are how they are a Picard and Data show with the rest and how do they remedy it but by making a clone of Picard and an extra Data.

 

[Terok Nor]

I was expecting Lore to appear in one of the movies. I was also expecting Q but neither of those characters were used. All in all the Next Gen movies did not live up to my expectations apart from First Contact. I knew the Borg would appear in one of the movies and I was not disappointed.

I dislike the way the Sela character was dropped. She was Tasha Yar's daughter for crying out loud! A big fuss was made about her at the end of Season 4 and then she only appeared twice more. I'm going to assume the Romulans had her executed for her failures in Redemption and Unification.

 

[BillJ]

I dislike the way the Sela character was dropped. She was Tasha Yar's daughter for crying out loud! A big fuss was made about her at the end of Season 4 and then she only appeared twice more. I'm going to assume the Romulans had her executed for her failures in Redemption and Unification.

One appearance of Sela was too many.

 

[Phantom]

How so? The character concept was interesting and would have made a good foil for Picard long-term.

I'm guessing you just didn't like Crosby. The obvious fix is re-casting the character.

 

[Terok Nor]

I sort of agree with BillJ.

Crosby obviously realised she made a mistake leaving the show and Sela was a last ditch attempt to bring her back into the fold. I did enjoy the mystery in Season 4 but once it was revealed it all came off as ridiculous. I think the writers knew this and that's why Sela wasn't used again after Unification.

We'll never know what would have become of Tasha Yar if Crosby had stayed but the constant call backs to her should have ended at Yesterday's Enterprise and All Good Things. It was contrived how many times Tasha became a plot point after her death. There was also the appearance of her sister in Season 4. The use of Tasha's holo portrait in several episodes was simple and a lot more effective.

 

[BillJ]

How so? The character concept was interesting and would have made a good foil for Picard long-term.

I'm guessing you just didn't like Crosby. The obvious fix is re-casting the character.

I was never interested in the character, it really wouldn't have mattered which actress it was.

 

[Vandervecken]

As bad as the films overall were I'll still take them to get First Contact, one of Trek's best installments and the big-screen sequel that TBoBW demanded.

At the expense of making the guy from TOS's "Metamorphosis" into an alcoholic womanizing self-centered asshole, and also at the expense of making the Borg into some drone bee hive with a sultry hormone-addled queen bee at the center.

But if you liked it, awesome

Nice to see someone else who didn't think much of FC. Some of the pacing was terrible, eg, the Temptation of Data scenes taken as a whole were, for me, prolonged and dull. The outside space battle for the beacon was plodding/unexciting. The beginning sequence made the Borg just unbelievably easy to defeat--oh, we can go on about Locutus' knowledge, but really, the Borg made no allowance for that? Just too easy--and obviously contrived to be easy so that we could get into the past and have most of the flick's action there. But scenes in Trek movies (or any movies) shouldn't be sacrficable "throwaways"--if some scenes are set-ups for later ones, still those scenes deserve to make sense and entertain themselves.

The overall feel of the movie for me was of a bunch of unconvincingly acted, or over-acted, stitched-together scenes that never really felt related. The whole movie was clanky, amateurish, and hurried, yet paradoxically slow moving (The Worst of Both Worlds).

OP, yes, I wish the TNG franchise had ended at AGT. But as long as we are wishing, I do wish we had had some DS9 movies.

 

[JWPlatt]

In hindsight do you wish TNG had ended with "All Good Things"?

No.

All Star Trek films are worth the effort whether they are good or not, whether I like them or not. It's better to have tried and failed, and perhaps succeed(!), than to never have tried at all. Further, I would not wipe any failed attempts from existence and memory if it were possible, with the exception of the Alien 3 writers' snuffing of Newt, Hicks, Bishop and Ripley and the Generations writers' snuffing of Picard's family.

I'll counter the question with:

Is the world a worse place when episodes or movies are bad? How?

I'm not a defeatist or nihilist and so hoping something as benign as light entertainment doesn't, or didn't, happen just isn't in my thinking. Even Plan 9 From Outer Space works for our cultural heritage, from a certain point of view.

 

[Warped9]

Given I never cared for any of the TNG films ending the series with AGT would have been going out on a high note. I would have been okay with it.

 

[Dukhat]

How so? The character concept was interesting and would have made a good foil for Picard long-term.

I'm guessing you just didn't like Crosby. The obvious fix is re-casting the character.

I was never interested in the character, it really wouldn't have mattered which actress it was.

In retrospect, the Sela character really made no sense. The whole reason why alternate Tasha went back with the Enterprise-C crew was so that she would have a more meaningful death than what happened to her on Vagra II. Except now we find out that she survived only to become some consort to a Romulan admiral and then killed while trying to escape. What kind of meaningful death was that? And on top of that, she gives birth to a half-Romulan daughter who is in command of a fleet in only 20 years? And really has no reason to even be given such an opportunity?

 

[JWPlatt]

Yeah, kind of like creating a wonderful episode called "Family" for Picard and then killing said family in a fire first chance they got in a movie, making the episode retrospectively painful to watch. Bastards.

 

[JesterFace]

Yeah, kind of like creating a wonderful episode called "Family" for Picard and then killing said family in a fire first chance they got in a movie, making the episode retrospectively painful to watch. Bastards.

I hate that. Why were they killed? So that Soran could be menacing when he says "Time is a fire in which we burn"?

TNG should have ended with 'All Good Things...' It was a perfect ending. But then came the hideousness some call TNG movies... Personally, I want to deny those movies even exist!

BTW, how is it even possible to die in a house fire in the 24th century...

 

[T'Girl]

BTW, how is it even possible to die in a house fire in the 24th century...

In all honesty, I think Q did it. Several people on the Enterprise died in Q-Who, and Q generally likes fucking with Picard.

she gives birth to a half-Romulan daughter who is in command of a fleet in only 20 years? And really has no reason to even be given such an opportunity?

Nepotism?

 

[Warped9]

In retrospect, the Sela character really made no sense. The whole reason why alternate Tasha went back with the Enterprise-C crew was so that she would have a more meaningful death than what happened to her on Vagra II. Except now we find out that she survived only to become some consort to a Romulan admiral and then killed while trying to escape. What kind of meaningful death was that? And on top of that, she gives birth to a half-Romulan daughter who is in command of a fleet in only 20 years? And really has no reason to even be given such an opportunity?

I've always thought this.

 

[Terok Nor]

In retrospect, the Sela character really made no sense. The whole reason why alternate Tasha went back with the Enterprise-C crew was so that she would have a more meaningful death than what happened to her on Vagra II. Except now we find out that she survived only to become some consort to a Romulan admiral and then killed while trying to escape. What kind of meaningful death was that? And on top of that, she gives birth to a half-Romulan daughter who is in command of a fleet in only 20 years? And really has no reason to even be given such an opportunity?

I've always thought this.

As have I.

It would have been better if Sela turned out to be Tasha Yar after 2 decades of brainwashing. Then she could have been redeemed and rejoined the crew. Only problem is her age but that's never stopped Trek before.

I do wonder why the writers bothered going back to Tasha so often. For a character who only appeared for one season and had very minimal exposure it seemed excessive. The actress must have been well loved by the crew.

 

[JWPlatt]

Yeah, kind of like creating a wonderful episode called "Family" for Picard and then killing said family in a fire first chance they got in a movie, making the episode retrospectively painful to watch. Bastards.

I hate that. Why were they killed? So that Soran could be menacing when he says "Time is a fire in which we burn"?

Yep. That's all it was.

Writers who can't write motivation, write death as motivation, seemingly in spite of (not 'despite' - there's a difference) of the audience: "Oh, you liked that episode and the cute kid? Well fuck you!"

 

[BillJ]

Writers who can't write motivation, write death as motivation, seemingly in spite of (not 'despite' - there's a difference) of the audience: "Oh, you liked that episode and the cute kid? Well fuck you!"

It's funny, I didn't enjoy "Family" any less after seeing Generations. Not sure I see a reason why one shot characters should be put on a shelf to collect dust if they can be used in a later story, even if as motivation.

 

[JWPlatt]

René gave Jean Luc an internal strength that he can have his Starfleet career, secure in the knowledge that he has not failed the family, because René is there in his place. And as a father, I feel a writer has come into my home and determined that my children are expendable for the sake of a throwaway line in a script.

PICARD: I'd come to feel that René was as close as I would get to having a child of my own.
TROI: Your family history is very important to you, isn't it?
PICARD: Right. Oh, ...from being a small child, I can remember being told about the family line. The Picard who fought at Trafalgar. The Picard who won the Nobel Prize for chemistry. The Picard's who settled the first Martian colony. When Robert married and had a son, I...
TROI: ...You felt it was no longer your responsibility to carry on the family line.
PICARD: Right. Yes. That's it exactly. You know, Counselor, Recently I've become very much aware that there are fewer days ahead than there are behind. ...But I took comfort from the fact that ...the family would go on. But now there'll be no more Picards.

Yes, I get the irony that I'm quoting from the movie to make my point.

 

[Marsden]

In retrospect, the Sela character really made no sense. The whole reason why alternate Tasha went back with the Enterprise-C crew was so that she would have a more meaningful death than what happened to her on Vagra II. Except now we find out that she survived only to become some consort to a Romulan admiral and then killed while trying to escape. What kind of meaningful death was that? And on top of that, she gives birth to a half-Romulan daughter who is in command of a fleet in only 20 years? And really has no reason to even be given such an opportunity?

That's why Sela should have been the clone in Nemesis, it doesn't make any sense and neither did Nemesis anyway.

It would still stink but plug Sela into most of those scenes instead of Tom Hardy and it would actually wrap up a loose thread from the show. You could even have the criminally underused Ron Perlman be the "real" bad guy at the end causing Sela to do the extra bad things like killing the Senate and wanting to destroy earth.

Or forget Sela and just have Ron Perlman be the bad guy. Not blaming Hardy, but Perlman as main bad guy, not a clone obviously, would have been better. but then watching a sidewalk dry might have been better.

 

[suarezguy]

How so? The character concept was interesting and would have made a good foil for Picard long-term.

I'm guessing you just didn't like Crosby. The obvious fix is re-casting the character.

I was never interested in the character, it really wouldn't have mattered which actress it was.

In retrospect, the Sela character really made no sense. The whole reason why alternate Tasha went back with the Enterprise-C crew was so that she would have a more meaningful death than what happened to her on Vagra II. Except now we find out that she survived only to become some consort to a Romulan admiral and then killed while trying to escape. What kind of meaningful death was that?

Unusually nasty for Trek but an interesting idea that going back in time for a blaze of glory did prevent a great deal of bad but also produced some negative consequences and didn't go entirely as planned.

 

[Dukhat]

BTW, how is it even possible to die in a house fire in the 24th century...

In all honesty, I think Q did it. Several people on the Enterprise died in Q-Who, and Q generally likes fucking with Picard.

The people who died in Q-Who didn't die because Q killed them. They died because they happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time when the Borg used their cutting beam. Granted it was Q who flung the Enterprise into the Borg's path, but he was only indirectly responsible for what happened later.

Plus, Q has never been shown to make such wanton and harsh actions as outright killing relatives of the one human he considers to be worthy of his time. And "fucking with Picard" would not be sufficient motivation for outright murder for literally no reason.

No, Robert and Rene were killed because the script for Generations was a piece of utter shit, not because Q had anything to do with it.

Nepotism?

If that Romulan general was in any way influential, maybe. But Sela never states anything of the sort, only that he was influential enough to save her mom from death just to be his personal concubine.

 

[JesterFace]

Robert and Rene were killed because the script for Generations was a piece of utter shit, not because Q had anything to do with it.

It's nice that someone shares my opinion on the quality of 'Generations'.