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Uhura: Engineer, not linguist

It's probably also worth noting that Sulu is a physicist with a working knowledge of botany as a hobby.
The department head of astro sciences in WNMHGB is never referred to by name. Star Trek occasionally used the same actor in multiple roles, so while the department head was played by George Takei, it wasn't automatically the character of Sulu.

Untrue. She is also a senior officer i.e. a lieutenant.
No, a lieutenant isn't a senior officer.
 
It's probably also worth noting that Sulu is a physicist with a working knowledge of botany as a hobby.
The department head of astro sciences is never referred to by name. Star Trek occasionally used the same actor in multiple roles, so while the department head was played by George Takei, it wasn't automatically the character of Sulu.
In WNMHGB Sulu is referred to by name.
 
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Well, the movies are fixing the misplaced emphasis. ;)

Which is why I love them, among other reasons. About time she was the lead female character!

Uhura has more emphasis. Whether she's more professional is a matter of debate considering her public melodramas with Spock and the associated conflict of interest that comes from effectively dating your boss.

Nothing says highly trained professional and invaluable member of the crew quite as well as being the stereotypical "annoying girlfriend." During an emergency no less! :rolleyes:

Those movies did nothing to "fix" the character.
 
We've got calculators that you could say makes math obsolete, and yet we still have mathematicians.
...But we don't have to put mathematicians in direct command of artillery regiments - whereas back in the World Wars, this was not just a good idea, but sometimes key to survival of a nation!

You're trying to impose 20th century art-of-war logic to a 23rd century utopia. This is the Gene Roddenberry who thought it was a good idea to put entire families on ships. How many families were on WWII battleships?

And yet you want to put a 20th century mathematical genius in place of the ship's computer?

TOS worshipped machines just as much as it could. It sometimes got mileage from the threat posed by independently thinking machines - but the Universal Translator is hardly in that category, and the ship's computer exists nevertheless.

This is a big reason why Trek resonated with geeks. Because it projected the idea that being smart was an intrinsic virtue.

But as you say, being smart is just something that happens because everybody is smart. It doesn't follow that Uhura would have to be a linguist when there's no plotwise or in-universe call for that. She is a wizard with the soldering iron, it seems - what's so wrong with that?

To be more specific, she doesn't have to study "linguistics" per se, but I would expect her to have a conversational grasp of Klingon in particular, since that's a culture they had to deal with on a regular basis.

It just doesn't sound realistic, though. Conversational Russian was very rare in the West during the Cold War.

Tackling this from the other end, a big point about the enemies in TOS was that they were rather mysterious. The Romulans set the precedent for that, and any attempt at forcing 20th century ideas about the relationship between the heroes and their enemies would have undermined that precedent and thus gone contrary to the realism erected by TOS.

But if they had any intention of giving her something to do besides open and close hailing frequencies, having her understand the nature of language in dealing with the aliens of the week would have been useful. She could have helped solve Darmok kinds of situations. It was a missed opportunity.

I don't quite see why she would have needed something else to do - that wasn't the dramatic role of the character, and I'm fine with that. But making her solve problems would be a decidedly bad move: that's main character territory! Sulu and Chekov never solved anything - they at best got sufficiently involved to serve as damsels in distress. Sure, Uhura could have done some of that, too, but we might actually find relief in the fact that she did not.

Timo Saloniemi
 
I just assumed that whatever odd languages she knew got wiped by Nomad, and they just never had the time, nor perhaps the computer cards, to have her relearn them all. Especially all the various Romulan and Klingon dialects.

Oh if they would have just had access to the "teacher" computer from "Spock's Brain." It would have been so much easier....

:cardie:
 
I'm another who never heard that Uhura was "supposed to be" a linguist. Language translation seems to be pretty much a non-issue in TOS, so that doesn't seem like something that would be part of her primary duties.

Uhura's job on the show can be mapped to that of the radio officer on a naval vessel, as could most jobs on the ship. The American Navy was the direct model and inspiration for the Enterprise.

That's the heart of it. Or, to picture the communications department leadership of a US Navy cruiser in the late '60s:
topeka_comm_dept_zpsoafeiakl.jpg


Of course time marches on, and our own present-day navy sounds more futuristic than TOS, with the Communications Department now absorbed into "Combat Systems," the good old navy Radioman now an "Information Systems Technician," and rated "skivvy wavers" (Signalmen) a thing of the past.

If Uhura is the communications officer, there is a good case for her being a department head, which would place her in the captain's "inner circle" and would give her larger (and off-camera) responsibilities of running her department. Why the department head would actually stand communications watches on the bridge is another question, but the chief engineer also sometimes manned a bridge station.

Not quite - they made lieutenants of all the scientists, who are probably not part of the chain of command, about half the helmsmen and navigators, and the senior engineers.

And there were also a load of security lieutenants, who just seemed to stand guard posts.

I agree, but I would add that Roddenberry's pitch and his script for the pilot was more closely aligned with Hornblower's Royal Navy.

Well, in some ways, but it was also updated for what people understood of a mid-20th century navy. No engineers in Hornblower's time, for instance. No radio. No torpedoes.

Well, to be fair to the writers, it wasn't entirely clear sometimes if there actually were enlisted personnel during the original show. Sure there was the occasional "crewman" plus all the yeomen - but those were always younger people, I don't recall ever seeing any senior enlisted personnel, and "chief" seemed to be more of a job title than rank. Most of the Treknical pubs of the 70s seemed to believe that "crewman" simply equalled ensign - and it's arguable that TNG contuinued that until they hamhandedly converted Lieutenant O'Brien to a CPO. Only in the movies was there ever a clear enlisted crew structure.

Agreed that it was muddled, but TOS had "Yeoman third class Tina Lawton," "Chief Humboldt," "Technicians First Class Thule and Harrison," "Watkins, John B., Engineer Grade Four." The idea of enlisted personnel in TOS is not exactly unsupported.
 
I absolutely love this theory, Sonic Ranger.

The novels do tell a different story, but then the novels went to the trouble of fleshing her character out. Given the sparse canon information on Uhura, this is a great fit.
 
Wouldn't she have worn blue if her role had been that of a linguist (scientist)? Since she is wearing red it stands to reason that she is some sort of engineer/technical person.
 
Wouldn't she have worn blue if her role had been that of a linguist (scientist)? Since she is wearing red it stands to reason that she is some sort of engineer/technical person.

They're not completely consistent. Masterson seems to be fulfilling an engineering role but is in blue - although it's possible that she works in the high energy physics department and phaser monitoring is part of their remit as an adjunct to the checks made by the engineers themselves.

McGyvers was a historian in red, although some have postulated that she was an engineer and history was her secondary subject (no real need for an Earth historian as a distint post on the ship, especially when you have have an A&E officer as a defined role).

Mulhall was ship's atrobiologist, which you would have thought was an important role on a 5 year deep space exploration mission. She is clearly also an engineer so maybe she is formally affiliated to engineering but that's odd if true since the ship would likely need a full-time astrobiologist on board.

Also Uhura starts off in command yellow. She's an officer who mans the comms station. I thinkk they changed her to red because it more suited Nichelle's colouring - is there an official reason why they did it?
 
Also Uhura starts off in command yellow. She's an officer who mans the comms station. I thinkk they changed her to red because it more suited Nichelle's colouring - is there an official reason why they did it?

This is from ST Memory Alpha. I added the emphasis on engineering.

"As shown in the picture to the left, Uhura initially wore the gold command uniform in "The Corbomite Maneuver" and "Mudd's Women". Thereafter, she was outfitted in the more-familiar red uniform of engineering and support services."

Link to Uhura page -
http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Nyota_Uhura

And here is old thread on the Gold/Red Uhura:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=142252
 
On TOS she's the ship's radio officer, that's all.

Untrue. She is also a senior officer i.e. a lieutenant. TOS is a bit top heavy on lieutenants admittedly...

Yes, it is. TOS arbitrarily made officers of everyone except the occasional throwaway walk-on. Uhura's job on the show can be mapped to that of the radio officer on a naval vessel, as could most jobs on the ship. The American Navy was the direct model and inspiration for the Enterprise.
Without denying the nautical influence, more the Army Air Corps, I'd say. The layout of the bridge for example:
-Pilot/co-pilot
-Flight engineer
-Radioman
The look of the Enterprise, with its aircraft-type running lights and markings, its engine nacelles as the source of power (initially, anyway,)
etc, etc
May also be the source of the officers-only thing, since I've read that the Army had issues with the officer pilots fraternizing with the enlisted aircrews.
 
Just an observation on general role within TOS, and how it ties in with uniform colours.

Yellow/gold is Command (of ship, or direction the ship goes etc) - so actual commanding officer/s and Helm and Nav.

Red is Support to that so Eng, Security and Commu.

Blue is Science (and Med) in whatever specilisation.

Uhura's Red is for Commu/Support services, regardless of whether she is just a Commu technician, or a linguist also.
 
Just an observation on general role within TOS, and how it ties in with uniform colours.

Yellow/gold is Command (of ship, or direction the ship goes etc) - so actual commanding officer/s and Helm and Nav.

Red is Support to that so Eng, Security and Commu.

Blue is Science (and Med) in whatever specilisation.

Uhura's Red is for Commu/Support services, regardless of whether she is just a Commu technician, or a linguist also.

It's a valid point that the uniform reflects your post rather than your qualifications although Trek has e'er been inconsistent. By TMP, communications, helm, and navigation are all part of operations (yellow badge). By TWoK, helm and engineering are affiliated with yellow collars, while navigation and communications are grey so the system is an illogical mess.

The comms officer is part of operations so IMO s/he should be in gold. The TMP divisions make the most sense to me (although not necessarily the colour scheme). They probably also need a support services designated colour to round it off but I suppose you could argue that admin, legal, and general maintenance such as cleaning and the galley could be part of operations.
 
Besides, TUC should dispel any idea Uhura was a linguist.

What happens, though, is that those fans who consider her a linguist then slam this scene (or the whole movie) as being (a) character assassination and/or (b) poorly written for "ignoring" that Uhura "should have" known Klingonese.
Nichelle Nichols herself disliked this scene because it showed Uhura in a situation of incompetence as communication officer.

And being bilingual or polyglot doesn't mean you're a linguist, it only means you're bilingual or polyglot.
 
Also Uhura starts off in command yellow. She's an officer who mans the comms station. I thinkk they changed her to red because it more suited Nichelle's colouring - is there an official reason why they did it?

This is from ST Memory Alpha. I added the emphasis on engineering.

"As shown in the picture to the left, Uhura initially wore the gold command uniform in "The Corbomite Maneuver" and "Mudd's Women". Thereafter, she was outfitted in the more-familiar red uniform of engineering and support services."

Link to Uhura page -
http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Nyota_Uhura

And here is old thread on the Gold/Red Uhura:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=142252

And when she wore her gold uniform, she wore a science badge:

MW-uhuracommandskirtscipatc.jpg


Chalk it up to early production errors where everything was still in flux regarding the costumes. And while we can debate why Uhura switched department colors in-universe or whether she was an able engineer, it's most likely because Nichols looked better in red than gold and it made her stand out more on the bridge.

Wouldn't she have worn blue if her role had been that of a linguist (scientist)? Since she is wearing red it stands to reason that she is some sort of engineer/technical person.

Communciations was lumped into the science division in the movies, starting with TWOK. See costume designer Robert Fletcher's notes (also notice that communications in this breakdown includes "alien languages"): http://www.st-spike.org/pages/uniforms/2278-2350/divisions.htm
 
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I always liked Uhura in the gold, but I can see why they thought the red was more attractive on her.
 
Besides, TUC should dispel any idea Uhura was a linguist.

What happens, though, is that those fans who consider her a linguist then slam this scene (or the whole movie) as being (a) character assassination and/or (b) poorly written for "ignoring" that Uhura "should have" known Klingonese.
Nichelle Nichols herself disliked this scene because it showed Uhura in a situation of incompetence as communication officer.

Nichelle Nichols seems to be one of the Uhura-as-linguist proponents...

I'm sure she'd say by now that MLK told her so.
 
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