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If you could recreate Harry Kim....

Too bad, too sad. Not your call to make.

It is our call to make. There was a meeting (including a buffet.....Catarina even made some lemon drizzle cake). Decisions are made by those who show up and sadly, you never came so in your absence, we agreed that Harry and Seven can never be allowed.

What was missing was having the third character of the tri-force. They needed a Richard.

It is always Tom, Dick, and Harry. They were missing the important part for Kim.

Surely Neelix qualifies as the Dick.
 
Too bad, too sad. Not your call to make.

It is our call to make. There was a meeting (including a buffet.....Catarina even made some lemon drizzle cake). Decisions are made by those who show up and sadly, you never came so in your absence, we agreed that Harry and Seven can never be allowed.
I'm God, so you're all overruled.

My universe. My rules.
:rofl:
 
Honestly, my first reaction to "If you could recreate Harry Kim...." was "...Why would you want to?"
 
If you could recreate Harry Kim, recreate him using Tuvix' transporter pattern while keeping Neelix and Tuvok. Big improvement in bridge personnel.
"I'm sorry, Mrs. Kim. We did everything we could."
 
It would have been nice if his character had grown and matured over the course of the series. I don't mind him starting out as the callow rookie but 7 years and 172 episodes is a long time to spend with someone who never evolves. The Doctor, 7of9, B'Leanna and Tom achieved some personal evolution. Even Neelix learned to be a little less obnoxious over time.
 
The Harry Kim of Timeless, minus the self regret, should have been the Harry Kim of the entire series.
 
The Harry Kim of Timeless, minus the self regret, should have been the Harry Kim of the entire series.
Yeah, the problem was the improvement in the character was only in future versions of himself. I think Garrett was 27 when he started, and said he had trouble playing a character who was 5 years younger.
 
The Harry Kim of Timeless, minus the self regret, should have been the Harry Kim of the entire series.
Yeah, the problem was the improvement in the character was only in future versions of himself. I think Garrett was 27 when he started, and said he had trouble playing a character who was 5 years younger.

Many younger characters are amazing and hot. Harry was not one of them.

JUST IMAGINE!!!!1 If in all that time travel faffing about TIMELESS Harry Kim had replaced our rice pudding Harry Kim for the rest of the series!

!!!!!!!!

I mean how awesome would this be.
 
I wouldn't recreate him. I think the idea of him was just fine - for a season or two. What he, and most of the main characters, needed was development. With the exception of Janeway, Seven and The Doctor none of the characters grew at all during 7 seasons. By episode 2 Paris, Chakotay and Neelix were exactly where they would be by the end of Season 7. Torres had a few ups and downs early in Season One but she too settled down early on. Kim and Tuvok began and ended the series without a shred of character development. Tuvok is a stoic Vulcan so it's understandable in his case but Kim's lack of development is unforgivable. He should have developed more than anyone since he was young and inexperienced. Sadly that's how he stayed. Not even a promotion to his name.

Ironically the character the writers axed - Kes - had more character development and growth in 3 seasons than the majority of the cast put together. Go figure.
 
I wouldn't recreate him. I think the idea of him was just fine - for a season or two. What he, and most of the main characters, needed was development. With the exception of Janeway, Seven and The Doctor none of the characters grew at all during 7 seasons. By episode 2 Paris, Chakotay and Neelix were exactly where they would be by the end of Season 7. Torres had a few ups and downs early in Season One but she too settled down early on. Kim and Tuvok began and ended the series without a shred of character development. Tuvok is a stoic Vulcan so it's understandable in his case but Kim's lack of development is unforgivable. He should have developed more than anyone since he was young and inexperienced. Sadly that's how he stayed. Not even a promotion to his name.

Ironically the character the writers axed - Kes - had more character development and growth in 3 seasons than the majority of the cast put together. Go figure.

I agree about Janeway, Doctor and Seven but I disagree about Neelix and Paris. I am going through the series again and I have noticed that Neelix really settles down during the latter part of the series and is not nearly as annoying to me as he was when he was with Kes. The thing is there wasn't this grand big moment when we saw Neelix transform. He just did it gradually.

I personally saw growth in Paris. The character had more of an up and down ride than a smooth progression like the other characters but I personally saw definite growth there.

Chakotay, yes. I am watching again closely and the poor guy was just...stuck in a moment.
 
Harry doesn't have that bad of foundation when it comes to his characterization - young, fresh out of the Academy, on his first major assignment. The problem is that the writing refuses to let him GROW. Harry Kim in Endgame is pretty much unchanged from Harry Kim in Caretaker.

That said, if I'd gotten a chance to write Harry Kim a character arc or two over the course of the series, develop him as a character, I'd have gotten him promoted by season four, first of all, and then I'd have two major developments with him.

First, I'd have him eventually come out as gay, that he'd been with Libby mostly because him being an only child of older parents, feeling the pressure to go out and marry a girl and all of that jazz. Him being on Voyager would give him the chance to recognize and be true to himself. I'd probably also make Gerron, the Bajoran Maquis crewman in 'Learning Curve,' his eventual love interest on the show.

Second, I'd revisit the fact that the Caretaker had selected him as a possible replacement, potentially even to the point that it's a major factor as the series went on. Why was he selected to receive the Caretaker's gift? What made him special? Voyager never really cared to focus on this idea, but I think it could have have major implications through the rest of the series.
 
I don't hate Harry Kim or anything; I just find him very boring. It's not like his character had to be completely re-imagined for them to make something of him. He could've started out the same way but grew as a person. IIRC, Wang blames Berman for the characterization of Harry - something about Berman telling the actors to repress emotion and telling Wang that someone had to stay the ensign. We could've seen Harry really blossom into a confident young man. It's not like the guy had no skills either. Sure, he was a bit awkward but that seemed largely due to inexperience. After seven friggin' seasons lost in space, you'd think some of that naivete would be replaced with a hardened confidence. The progression of his character (or lack thereof, really) didn't seem realistic. Yes, I realize we're talking about Star Trek here, but just because the show involves aliens and space doesn't mean the characters don't have to be realistic in their development!
 
I would keep him exactly the same to begin with, and then actually have him be affected by, say, any of the things that happen to him in the delta quadrant. I'd have him not be satisfied to stay at Ensign forever - he'd actually be motivated to earn his promotion and question the captain about what more he needs to do about not getting recognised. And after his encounter with Species 8472 and various other aliens, I'd have him become a little less naive and a bit more jaded - possible even disenfranchised if he's not getting promoted, to a point where Janeway has to question what she's doing wrong with him herself!
 
Harry being denied a promotion is ridiculous anyway. Even some of the Maquis received preferential treatment.

A bit more cheekiness and better written episodes with emphasis on Harry would have been better. Even his parents were bland or even worse: patronizing and protective. I guess he was a model boy during puberty.

I liked Seven's aunt Irene and B'Elanna's Dad more. And those characters didn't have a lot of screen time.
 
Ayala was promoted during the course of Voyager. From Ensign to Lieutenant. Lon Suder was also a Lieutenant. Both were Maquis!

And let's not forget B'Lanna.

Oh and even Tuvix was a Lieutenant which means half of Neelix was promoted before Kim.
 
A subspace message from Ensign Harry Kim on board USS Voyager

Good evening ladies and gentlemen. I'm Harry Kim.

During a recent mission which brought Voyager back to the 21th century, I was checking your so-called Internet and found this thread. So I thought it was time to set some things straight.

I can tell you one thing, you can talk all you want about Captain Kirk, Spock, Captain Picard or even Riker. But if there ever was a true hero in Starfleet, then it was me, Harry Kim.

You want evidence? I'll give you that!

When I was 14 years old, I saved my father's life with the help of some Starfleet cadets. My father had fallen down in a cliff during a vacation in the mountains.

There and then I decided to join Starfleet. First I was rejected. But I tried again and succeded.

At the Academy I was insulted and pecked on by my prep officer Commander Nimembeh. But I survived and graduated.

Then I got the commision on Voyager. Good luck, you may think. Just wait!

The first thing that did happen was that I made a fool of myself by almost being cheated by a Ferengi at Deep Space Nine. Tom Paris saved me from that humiliation.

Then we were transported to the Delta Quadrant and kidnapped by the Caretaker. Which one did the Caretaker keep and infect with a deadly virus? Me, Harry Kim of course!

OK, me and B'Elanna managed to escape and with some help we managed to get back to Voyager and be treated by the holographic Doctor.

Some months later, me, B'Elanna and Neelix were investigating a bunch of old ships on an unhabited planet. Then we were transported millions of years back in time and then accused for breaking the time laws of the Alcawellian society. We were actually executed by poison. Fortunately, with some help from a sympathetic Alcawellian security guy and some "back-timing" Captain Janeway managed to save us.

Then we entered a war zone where there had been a war going on for centuries. When Commander Chakotay, Lieutenant Rollins, Ensign Bereyt and me were in a shuttle trying to act as mediators, we were captured by the P'nir and when we were trying to escape, I was deadly injured. Fortunately we arrived back to Voyager in time and I was cured.

Well, these events should have been enough for receiving a medal. But there will be more.

Some months later, Tom and I were arrested on Banea. Tom was accused for murdereing a professor. I was interrogated for days and in a bad shape when I was released.

About one week later I was accidently brought to another dimension while investigating a strange moon where dead bodies ended up. The only way to get out of there was to change place with a man who was about to be killed, lay down in a coffin and being killed myself! Fortunately, the Voyager Doctor did bring me back to life again. That's the second time that I died and was brought back!

A month later I was participating in the holodeck novel "Beowulf" when some alien Light-beings abducted me.

Fortunately, my colleagues managed to negotiate with the aliens and bring me back.

In December that year, I was exposed to radiation during a mission with Tom Paris and had to be treated in sickbay, my second home now.

Five days into the new year, I was in a shuttle which ended up in a time stream. I was transported to another timeline in which I was back in San Francisco. I managed to get back to my real time and to Voyager but I was only seconds from being blown to pieces in an explosion.

One week later, I was injured in a firefight on another planet and back in sickbay again.

One month after that, we were investigating some old wrecks where an artificial intelligence lived. I was badly injured in an explosion and close to death. Kes saved my life and I ended up in sickbay, damaged but alive. However, I was the one who came up with the firewall which prevented the AI from accessing Voyager computer again. Me, Harry Kim!

Then we were visiting a planet called Sardalia. Tom and I ended up in some adventures and we were very close to drown during a severe storm. Commander Chakotay managed to beam us up in the last possible minutes.

And then came 19 July 2372, a day I'll never forget. That day, Harry Kim was killed while being sucked out in space on a badly damaged Voyager. But since the ship had been duplicated some hours before, I the duplicate Harry Kim never experienced that. I took the place on the original Voyager and continued as if nothing had happened. Beat that if you can, Captain Kirk!

Later on that year, we discovered a planet with some people in stasis. While trying to contact them, B'Elanna and I were transported to another dimension where we met a dreadful being called The Clown. Of course, B'Elanna was the one to go back to Voyager and tell Captain Janeway about The Clown's demand while I had to stay and suffer his psychic torture. I still have nightmares of him bringing up everything I had been afraid of and his comments like "Harry knows viruses" and "The spoil goes to the winner and you are the spoil Harry". There were actually planning to excecute me there too.

Two days later, me and B'Elanna were captured by the Nograkh and forced to work in a radioactive mine. Despite being poisoned by radiation, we managed to escape but of course we had to go to sickbay when we came back.

Later on that year, I was almost court-martialed by Lieutenant Tuvok after questioning the decision to leave Captain Janeway and Commander Chakotay on a strange planet. Harry Kim, the role model for a Starfleet Officer! Yeah, tell me about it!

One of the last days of the year, I broke my leg in a cavern during an eartquake and was very close to fall down in a deep cliff. I was rescued by Tom and Kes and ended up in sickbay. Again! 2372 was surely a wonderful year for me.

In february 2373, Tom and me were imprisoned on Akritiri and taken to a strange space station which served as a prison. We were beaten up and ill-treated before finally being rescued by Neelix and the Voyager crew.

On my birthday, 5th March we discovered a planet called Ryolanov which looked like a paradise. Then the "friendly" inhabitants were revealed as vampire-like creatures who sucked the life-spirit out of their victims. They attacked me with their powers but once again I survived!

Later on that year, I managed to make a fool out of myself for falling in love with a holgraphic character. I haven't dared to tell Libby about that.

Then I was infected by a virus which made me believe that I was a Taresian, striving to go home. At the Taresian homeworld, I was almost the victim of some DNA-sucking female "vampires" before being rescued in the last possible moment. Once again, I managed to look like a fool.

Then we engaged Species 2472 and I was deadly injured and close to death. But once again, thanks to the "gods of the universe", I survived. My Mom says it's because of my good looks. Might be some truth in that!

However, this went on for all those years in space with Voyager. And what did I get? Nothing!

One can assume that after all those dangerous missions, cheating death and managing to survive, I would at least have gotten a promotion. But no, I'm still Ensign Harry Kim.:mad:

Sometimes I suspect that it's that "duplicate thing" that is the reason for not being promoted and not receiving any medals. No one talks about it when I'm around but I know that there are talks behind my back. As if I wasn't the real Harry Kim!

Even my parents seem to distrust me since I mentioned that event. OK, it was stupid of me joking about it by singing and shouting that 20th century The Runaways song "Cherry Bomb" with the altered lyrics "Hello Dad, Hello Mum, I'm your D-D-D-D-Duplicate Son!" to them. But I thougth they had at least some humor. Now I know better!

Fortunately, Libby seem to have gotten over it. But it took a long time.

However, the worst thing is that ordinary people like you see me as a bland and boring person. Like this thread where you want to recreate me! Why?

Here you have a Starfleet Ensign who have been through more adventures than any of your possible heroes and who have cheated death more times than any hero from any century! And you find me bland and boring! :eek:

What do you expect instead? Superman!!!!

But I can tell you that I don't care what you think or want. I'm still here, ready for new missions. Because I'm Harry Kim, the true Starfleet hero!
 
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