Last Classic Who Story you watched

[kirk55555]

Well, the only thing you need to know for the backstory for this episode is that Adric stowed away in the TARDIS at the end of Full Circle (his brother had died fighting the Marshmen, so Adric had no other family ties among his own people and was a misfit anyway), and the TARDIS is stuck in E-space.

State of Decay is a creepy, gothic tale involving vampires, ancient Gallifreyan folklore, and there's a scene with bats that always gives me the creeps every time I watch this one. So of all the E-space stories, this is actually the best in terms of "creepy monster-ness", costumes, and the story makes sense. From what I've noticed of the stories you've discussed, you've certainly stuck with a lot that are far, far worse.

State of Decay is worth your time, unless vampires aren't something you're into.

Well, I'll probably try it eventually. I'm sure its not a horrible serial. Honestly, i'm sure City of Death wasn't even that bad. I just grew tired of the rapidly decreasing quality of Fourth Doctor stories, and I don't feel like seeing anything with Tom Baker for a bit. I've seen worse serials, but with, say, the Sixth Doctor I never got tired of watching The Doctor himself, even in the worst of his stories. It became a chore to watch City of Death and post Season 15 4th Doctor stories in general, so its just a good idea to me to stop for awhile, even though I'm sure there are at least a few good 4th Doctor serials left for me to see.

 

[Volpone]

Yes. "State of Decay" (of course based on an older story that got pulled because the BBC was doing "Dracula" at the time and didn't want to confuse the viewers (or something like that)) is quite good. The Doctor acts like The Doctor, not whacky look-at-me Tom Baker. Adric isn't annoying. The enemy is a credible threat. There's a mystery to be figured out (and they give the viewer just enough hints to keep us just ahead of the Doc as he figures it out). Costumes are good. Effects are well done. All around, a neat story.

 

[Volpone]

Oh, and good point on Harry. I think he gets called "Doctor" even less than Liz Shaw did. I think it is just that his character is a bit of a doofus, so it doesn't seem so unjust.

 

[Timewalker]

Oh, and good point on Harry. I think he gets called "Doctor" even less than Liz Shaw did. I think it is just that his character is a bit of a doofus, so it doesn't seem so unjust.

His "No, Doctor, I'm the doctor" scene is priceless:

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3CWXqUqPFA[/yt]

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Another good scene here with the best Romana

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R21xaP4RD9k[/yt]

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I saw City of Death again, to see if there was something wrong with my recollection of it... fortunately, its just as wonderful and enjoyable as ever! Sure, its a little flawed at spots (how could Julian Glover cover his face like that for years with his wife not noticing once?) but its still, far and wide, one the best of Tom Baker's stories. Easily.

 

[kirk55555]

I guess I just hate when an episode is 90% padding. I mean, to be fair, I made it through the Pertwee 7 episode serials, and every one of them had about 3 full episodes of pure padding. But, I think Pertwee's era had more consistent writing than Tom Bakers, at least from what I've seen of both eras.

A bit off topic (but it came to my mind as I was typing this) its kind of hard to decide my favorite 4th Doctor story, but I'd say its a tie between The Talons of Weng-Chiang and Genesis of the Daleks. Both of them were 6 episodes, but they still moved fairly fast and weren't held back by a lot of padding. Plus, they were just good stories, too.

 

[Doctorwhovian]

Talons I think is perhaps a bit better visually (apart from that rat), but I think Genesis is probably better written.

 

[Volpone]

Good calls, both. Watching "Genesis..." right now (on RetroTV on Saturdays).

"Talons..." is so much better than I remembered it (and I remembered it being pretty good). As an aside, I wonder if Carpenter ever saw it, because Big Trouble in Little China borrows more than a few elements from it. (For that matter, I wonder if the people who originally developed that story did, because at first it was set in 19th century San Francisco).

My favorite story is arguably "Pyramids of Mars." The Doctor acts appropriately alien with a hint of angst and superiority at the beginning, which is ironic, because he's quickly thrown up against an adversary who, if freed, is more than a match for the most powerful Time Lord. It riffs on the whole "Chariot of the Gods" bit and significantly predates "Stargate" in the Osirians as Ancient Aliens front.

In fact, it's interesting to see how many ideas are apparently "borrowed" from "Who". Just watching "Sontaran Experiment" yesterday and Styr's robot is kind of a low-budget version of the Imperial Probe Droid from "Empire Strikes Back" (which would come along around 6 years later).

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Genesis is my pick for an all-around story, but Talons and City are better Fourth Doctor vehicles, per se. His era is inconsistent, its true (thank you, Graham Williams), but every season of his has at least one really good story.

 

[kirk55555]

Genesis is my pick for an all-around story, but Talons and City are better Fourth Doctor vehicles, per se. His era is inconsistent, its true (thank you, Graham Williams), but every season of his has at least one really good story.

I'd argue that Season 15 didn't. It had a few good stories, but nothing on the same level as Genesis or Talons. It was at least half junk (Fendahl, and Invasion of Time were outright bad, and Sunmakers was annoying and pretty worthless, although it wasn't outright painful to sit through).

Horror of Fang Rock was pretty good, and I didn't hate Underworld. The Invisible Enemy introduced K9, so it gets a few points for that. Overall, I'd say season 15 was pretty average with no specific "classic" serial, which admittedly still puts it ahead of season 16, which I only got through 4 of the six serials before it got too intolerable to continue.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I just wish that the BBC did whole box sets for each doctor... That would totally rock

 

[kirk55555]

Yeah, especially for seasons with DVD releases that are completely out of print and tremendously expensive. I mean (for example), some people may be able to afford The War Games for $375 (actual cheapest Amazon price right now), but I'm not one of them

I think complete season dVD sets would be cool for classic who, but I really don't see it happening, or if it does I'm sure the US will get screwed and it will be UK only

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Yeah, especially for seasons with DVD releases that are completely out of print and tremendously expensive. I mean (for example), some people may be able to afford The War Games for $375 (actual cheapest Amazon price right now), but I'm not one of them

I think complete season dVD sets would be cool for classic who, but I really don't see it happening, or if it does I'm sure the US will get screwed and it will be UK only

Yes but Amazon UK ship to the US... But yeah the prices would hold people back that isn't cheap by any standard..

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I'd argue that Season 15 didn't.

Well...

Horror of Fang Rock was pretty good

There you go.

I didn't hate Underworld.

See, I hate that one with a passion. Cool first episode, garbage rest.

Overall, I'd say season 15 was pretty average with no specific "classic" serial, which admittedly still puts it ahead of season 16, which I only got through 4 of the six serials before it got too intolerable to continue.

You don't like the Key to Time story arc?

 

[Doctorwhovian]

The UK has released 'themed' box sets, and a few have come out in the US, but the only season box sets I believe are those collecting Key To Time and Trial Of A Time Lord which were season-long arcs.


Also the problem is, a lot of the black and white stuff is fragmented (missing episodes and stuff). Everything from the Pertwee era onward is safe (Although some episodes are in better shape than others). Also Doctor Who serials being as long as they are (About 4-6 episodes each for one serial/story), they're fairly easy to package as "mini movies", and early on in broadcast and VHS that's actually how many were available, with some edits such as the removal of the opening and closing credits (apart from the first and last episodes) and other edits for time. Eventually of course fan demand led to them being available uncut, but they're still kind of sold individually regardless.

 

[kirk55555]

I'd argue that Season 15 didn't.

Well...

Horror of Fang Rock was pretty good

There you go.

Pretty good, but not a classic story by a long shot.

You don't like the Key to Time story arc?

Oh, I definitely don't like the Key to Time. The first serial was pretty strong, the second tolerable, the third boring but inoffensive, then the fourth one was just horrible. There were no redeeming features for The Androids of Tara. The season kept getting worse and worse until I just gave up after Tara. The whole idea might have been ok with a competent producer and writing staff, two things the 4th Doctor didn't have that season, outside of Robert Holmes, who wrote the only good serial (The Ribos Operation). I think having to connect all the episodes together hurt the season, although the writing in general was already going down hill.

 

[Doctorwhovian]

Holmes also wrote the following serial, The Power Of Kroll.

However it's one of his worst stories, although some of the concepts he used would be incorporated (in a far better fashion) into Caves Of Androzani.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Holmes also wrote the following serial, The Power Of Kroll.

However it's one of his worst stories, although some of the concepts he used would be incorporated (in a far better fashion) into Caves Of Androzani.

Aaaawww no Kraken love.


I loved Kroll and the whole Key To Time arc, so much so I bought the box set. While not perfect it wasn't completely bad either.. The one I did not like that much was The Pirate Planet.

 

[Timewalker]

A bit off topic (but it came to my mind as I was typing this) its kind of hard to decide my favorite 4th Doctor story, but I'd say its a tie between The Talons of Weng-Chiang and Genesis of the Daleks. Both of them were 6 episodes, but they still moved fairly fast and weren't held back by a lot of padding. Plus, they were just good stories, too.

As far as I'm concerned, Genesis of the Daleks is the Whovian equivalent of Star Trek's City on the Edge of Forever. The best Doctor Who story, period.

(YMMV and probably does)

Genesis is my pick for an all-around story, but Talons and City are better Fourth Doctor vehicles, per se. His era is inconsistent, its true (thank you, Graham Williams), but every season of his has at least one really good story.

I'd argue that Season 15 didn't. It had a few good stories, but nothing on the same level as Genesis or Talons. It was at least half junk (Fendahl, and Invasion of Time were outright bad, and Sunmakers was annoying and pretty worthless, although it wasn't outright painful to sit through).

I enjoyed Image of the Fendahl, and The Sunmakers was also very good - that one was a "social commentary" story and got its point across quite nicely even to people who weren't familiar with the then-economic conditions in the UK.

Holmes also wrote the following serial, The Power Of Kroll.

However it's one of his worst stories, although some of the concepts he used would be incorporated (in a far better fashion) into Caves Of Androzani.

I loved Kroll and the whole Key To Time arc, so much so I bought the box set. While not perfect it wasn't completely bad either.. The one I did not like that much was The Pirate Planet.

The Power of Kroll has got to be one of the worst stories ever. As for The Pirate Planet... that was my first Doctor Who episode, and if it hadn't been for the promise made to a friend that I'd watch at least one complete story to see if I liked the series, the first episode of Pirate Planet was nearly my last.

Fortunately The Stones of Blood was excellent, so here I am, 33 years later...