Written by George Mann, art by Emma Vieceli.
First issue to be released October 28.
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/comics/...-returns-at-titan-comics.html#~piwEPco9m3ANJ7
Titan Comics announces 8th Doctor mini-series
- Thread starter Kai "the spy"
- Start date
Written by George Mann, art by Emma Vieceli.
First issue to be released October 28.
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/comics/...-returns-at-titan-comics.html#~piwEPco9m3ANJ7
And it's "Night of the Doctor" Eight rather than TV-movie Eight. Maybe connected to the Time War?
I love that that outfit comes to the fore. Big Finish' Old Doctors, New Monsters' Eighth story showcases this Eighth Doctor as well.
Awesome!
Awesome!
George Mann has said his series takes place late in the eighth Doctor's life and the Time War is in the background.
So presumably in that period when he was helping out where he could without being an active combatant. That's what I would've expected.
Do we know that was the Eighth rather than the War Doctor? After all, since it's a time war, "early" may be defined differently by different participants.
I rather think it was him, since he was probably the Doctor and not, er, John Hurt or something. Plus, we don't know if John Hurt would've saved him - he was fighting a war, saving your enemy, is not up to you.
I rather think the point of "The Day of the Doctor" was that the War Doctor was still the Doctor at heart, no matter what he believed. And even warriors are capable of showing mercy to their enemies when possible.
First of all, just because Moffat ruined the potential of a War Doctor, doesn't mean he was always the Doctor. He was a War Doctor for a reason, and you can't attain a reputation as a fierce military force if you're sparing your enemies.
Second, the dialogue in series 4 said that he tried to save him. Which implies wilful actiona gainst an impossible situation. In war, you can't do these things because you risk precious loss of tactical advantage and give a leeway to the enemy, by showing them you're vulnerable and weak.
By all indications, the EIghth Doctor witnessed the start of the war, and didn't interfere until the critical point of no return. Once he was in as the Warrior, I doubt it was "the start" anymore.
But you know, Big Finish might decide to think differently, so am I am to say conclusively. But, logic-wise, from what we know, it was the Eighth who tried to save Davros.
And the point of Day of the Doctor was that Moffat felt like creating a new Doctor, and he did it. The end.
Second, the dialogue in series 4 said that he tried to save him. Which implies wilful actiona gainst an impossible situation. In war, you can't do these things because you risk precious loss of tactical advantage and give a leeway to the enemy, by showing them you're vulnerable and weak.
By all indications, the EIghth Doctor witnessed the start of the war, and didn't interfere until the critical point of no return. Once he was in as the Warrior, I doubt it was "the start" anymore.
But you know, Big Finish might decide to think differently, so am I am to say conclusively. But, logic-wise, from what we know, it was the Eighth who tried to save Davros.
And the point of Day of the Doctor was that Moffat felt like creating a new Doctor, and he did it. The end.
Didn't Moffat originally conceive "Day of the Doctor" with the Ninth Doctor in mind, but then went with the War Doctor idea once Eccleston said no to coming back?
There's nothing "ruinous" about establishing that the Doctor remained himself rather than arbitrarily becoming a completely incompatible personality. It wouldn't have meant anything at all if he wasn't still the Doctor at heart, because then he would've just been a different character. It only has meaning if we can see the throughline to and from the Doctor we know.
War is never so simplistically absolute. No capable warrior would blindly apply the exact same tactics in every situation. A capable warrior would adapt to the needs of any given instance, and that includes recognizing moral gray areas and taking the opportunity to show mercy when it's possible. It's a childish fantasy to think that being an effective warrior means just grr, arggh, kill everything in sight. That's not being a soldier or a general, that's being a mindless idiot. War is a horrible thing, yes, but that's why it's so important to find opportunities to show humanity and compassion when you can.
Besides, you're forgetting that the Doctor -- in the incarnations that actually went by that name -- did, in fact, manage to attain a reputation as a fierce military force even while trying to be compassionate and heroic. Heck, that pretty much sums up the entire story arc of the Matt Smith era, from the Pandorica to Demons Run to Trenzalore -- the way the Doctor, through his attempts to do good and save lives, had inadvertently gained a reputation as a monstrous, relentless destroyer, to the point that "Doctor" even meant "warrior" in some planets' languages. The War Doctor was the natural culmination of that ongoing arc of Moffat's storytelling -- an incarnation of the Doctor who actually tried to embrace that reputation, only to ultimately learn that it was no more deserved than it ever was. Every incarnation of Moffat's Doctor has been defined by that dichotomy between the hero and the destroyer.
From his perspective, yes, but again, it's a time-travel war. Think about the Doctor and River Song. The start of their relationship from the Doctor's perspective was its end from River's perspective. That's what I'm saying -- whose "start" are we talking about?
Sort of. He says he didn't really start writing it until Eccleston shot down the offer to come back to the program (though by his sayings, it looks like he didn't really seem to offer a lot of information as to what the part expected of him). So he wrote the story with the Warrior firmly in mind.
Several of us around here think the Eighth Doctor should've been the natural replacement for the Warrior, for obvious reasons, best of which the character's assumed role in the Time War prior to the special. I also think it'd have made perfect symmetry to the TV Movie - an event feature-length story to start his life, and an even bigger event feature-length story to end it. And with two other returning Doctors, to boot! In a real generational crossover - actual OldWho meeting NuWho. I lament the McGann/Tennant/Smith exchanged we never had.
But hey, the stunt casting did work wonders. For one, John Hurt actually sold the part so well, I always manage to love him in the role. Lucky Moffat.
You clearly haven't served, then. Because as a soldier, you're following orders, and according to orders, its kill or be killed.
Now, I don't know how and under what capacity did the Doctor operate under. He is the Doctor after all - always doing his own thing and what not. But I doubt he'd veer that far off from any chain of command, especially if he represented his race throughout most of his life.
Which precisely emphasizes the point of difference between the Doctor and the Warrior - the latter clearly did not do things the "Doctor way", or he'd still recall those actions as being "in the name of the Doctor." He didn't stop calling himself the Doctor just before Gallifrey blew up. He stopped doing so the moment he regenerated. It was a conscious, willful lifestyle choice.
Which proves Moffat's laziness in his storytelling, for one.
Its not Moffat's arc. Not just his, anyway. What Moffat was basically repeat RTD's characterization arc about the Doctor and put him in the extreme. His Doctors also crossed the line between hero and destroyer, Ten most obviously in Waters of Mars.
Obviously his - he says it clearly.
Tenth Doctor: But you were destroyed. In the very first year of the Time War. At the Gates of Elysium. I saw your command ship fly into the jaws of the Nightmare Child. I tried to save you.
From Night of the Doctor, it seemed like the Time War went on for at least a short while - and the Doctor run away from it until he simply couldn't anymore. But when he could, he might've inadvertently become part of a conflict, with the clear interest of saving lives and not get into anyone's way.
(Typing this, made me hate the War Doctor as a concept even more - whats the point of a Doctor who's not gonna fight when saving lives actually means getting involved in the first place. Its like admitting to the War Doctor's crimes, but not the existence of the War Doctor hims - oh, wait. Stupid Moffat.)
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Who the hell was talking about soldiers? As Danny Pink said, the Doctor is officer material through and through.
He would never follow any chain of command except his own. That's fundamental to his character. He left Gallifrey in the first place because he couldn't live by its regimented rules. As a UNIT advisor, he did his own thing and rarely agreed with the Brigadier. And what we saw of the War Doctor in "Day" made it abundantly clear that he was a rogue operator who frustrated the Time Lord hierarchy no end.
Again, the whole point of "Day" was that, even though he and his later selves thought that was the case, he was wrong. The "Warrior" was still the Doctor even if he didn't think himself worthy of being the Doctor.
We can try to change ourselves, but we usually aren't as successful as we think.
"In the very first year" says nothing about the Doctor's own perspective. He could've gone back in time to the first year of the war at any point. After all, he wasn't fighting in the war for quite a while. Even talking about duration in a time war is kind of pointless, but given that he only belatedly got involved (from his perspective), it stands to reason that he wouldn't have been at the start of the war unless he travelled back to it retroactively. After all, the Eighth Doctor stayed on the periphery. He tells Cass, "I'm not part of the war. I swear to you, I never was." He tells Ohila, "I help where I can. I will not fight." So it doesn't seem likely that he would've been in the heat of battle, able to witness a key event in a major engagement, in his eighth incarnation. It seems more likely that, after becoming the War Doctor, he traveled back to that engagement in the first year of the war.
Army doctors and Red Cross members can save lives during a war without fighting in the war. You don't have to be a soldier or general in order to interact with people who are affected by a war.
After all, it wasn't just a war of bombs and bullets, it was a war of time travel. The two sides traveled through time and altered history repeatedly to benefit their own side and hurt the other side, to unmake their defeats and their foes' victories. Entire worlds were erased from existence, even worlds that weren't directly involved, like the Gelth. So it hurt and endangered a lot more people than the combatants themselves. The Eighth Doctor could've been trying to help those people, doing what he could to mitigate the impact of the war on noncombatants.
Well, they did say it was the first year of the Time War. Assuming they mean the first year of the war's existence (which I've always assumed to be the intent) then it would indeed be the Eight Doctor.
Mid you, I doubt this comic is going to be about trying to save Davros, in fact the Time War might only be mentioned rather than featured in a meaningful way.
The Big Finish 8th Doctor audio series (the one with Lucy Millar/Sheridan Smith) is fantastic- if you like the series, I highly recommend it.
Just because Moffat doesn't know how to write military men, doesn't mean an officer isn't a soldier at heart. Take it from someone who knows.
That was at the end of the War, and he likely fought for several centuries. RTD indicated that when he learned of the Time Lords' intent with the War, he broke away from them, so he fought against them.
I doubt he was always against his own species, and that I do think he was very much on their side for a long period of time.
He recognized that the Warrior was the Doctor after the fact. It doesn't undo his entire lifestyle choices or the fact that he himself didn't want to be refered to as the Doctor. It doesn't undo Nine's century of rediscovering himself as the Doctor, or Ten's even-greater attempt at redscovering his previous self's sense of wonder.
It doesn't seem likely at all. This is just pure conjecture on your part, to justify your idea that the Warrior was the one who tried to save Davros, when by all given evidence, it was Eight who probably did.
I don't think I've ever seen a more ardent defender of the War Doctor in any forum that I've ever been in. Remarkable.
Exactly. The Doctor wouldn't say "the very first year" if he didn't refer to the timeframe of the War itself.
I know. Love 'em. You should recommend them to Christopher.
Not sort of. That's what happened.
But only after Ecceleston turned it down. So creating a new Doctor couldn't have been Moffat's whole point of doing "Day of the Doctor" (as you said earlier) if it was actually a Plan B.
Doctor Who Magazine claims that he never wrote a script featuring the Ninth Doctor in Warrior's place. He talked with Eccleston, and only after he turned it down did he write it. So we're both right - all I'm saying is, Nine was never part of the script process.
