Will Riker refusing own command
- Thread starter Kilana2
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I once enjoyed a number one for a long time (too many lagers).
Why command a nothing ship charting a bland little nebula for three weeks when you can be second in command of the Enterprise (which is involved in significantly more interesting adventures due to its status as the flagship). Riker knew he'd be captain one day so what did it matter that it was put off?
I totally get his decision and what's more, I think his decision actually showed more ambition not less.
Why command a nothing ship charting a bland little nebula for three weeks when you can be second in command of the Enterprise (which is involved in significantly more interesting adventures due to its status as the flagship). Riker knew he'd be captain one day so what did it matter that it was put off?
I totally get his decision and what's more, I think his decision actually showed more ambition not less.
He was right to stay aboard the flagship rather than accepting command of a smaller ship, in the context of the overall narrative, as things worked out well for Will Riker. However, if this were real life, then his decision to refuse his own command was ill-advised and slowed down his career.
Bad writing. It was not the best idea to define early Riker's character trait of fast promotions and the desire to captain a starship on a character who needs to stay put on the series throughout its entire run. So when Riker does end up as first officer for the seven-year run, he comes off like he lost all ambition and drive. The ONLY way his character arc has its proper conclusion on the show is for Patrick Stewart to leave.
I'm afraid I have to concur with jimbotron. I also feel that there was an awareness, if you like, on the part of the producers and writers, that there might be some comparisons to Spock by audiences, in the early days. With Spock, it was clear where his loyalties lied and that he had no desire for a command of his own. He was an alien, though, so his motivations could be given even an irrational spin, and audiences of the time, especially, would just buy into it. Riker's deliberately sticking around, "just because" was another variance from The Classic Series format.
In a way, I applaud that "they" did not just ignore the fact that they had this young studd just tagging along. On the other hand, the fact that Riker's decision to stay, again and again, was never handled particularly well. In the real military, officers have to keep getting promotions, they have to be upwardly mobile, or they're made to retire. In STARFLEET, we've got an institution that doesn't mind keeping cliquey friends together for decades on their most advanced and powerful vessels. It almost defies common sense, in a way, yet this is depicted as Earth's future. If only Gene Roddenberry would've had Shatner saying at the start of every episode, "Long, long ago ... in a Galaxy far, far away ..." it would've forgiven many sins in this franchise. So many sins ...
In a way, I applaud that "they" did not just ignore the fact that they had this young studd just tagging along. On the other hand, the fact that Riker's decision to stay, again and again, was never handled particularly well. In the real military, officers have to keep getting promotions, they have to be upwardly mobile, or they're made to retire. In STARFLEET, we've got an institution that doesn't mind keeping cliquey friends together for decades on their most advanced and powerful vessels. It almost defies common sense, in a way, yet this is depicted as Earth's future. If only Gene Roddenberry would've had Shatner saying at the start of every episode, "Long, long ago ... in a Galaxy far, far away ..." it would've forgiven many sins in this franchise. So many sins ...
Okay lets look at this.
The first time Riker declines a promotion to captain of a starship is when he instead accepts the position of first officer on the Enterprise. Command ones own small ship or be second in command of the Flagship of the Federation with the name Enterprise? Seeing what happened to the USS Drake, Riker likely made the right call.
The second time, Riker is offered a ship explored a distance part of known space. Probably not that small of a ship this time. He's been XO of Enterprise for a year or so now. He debates the idea with himself, but decides to stay on Enterprise for his own reasons. This is the one time he might have been wrong in making this choice.
The third time was right before the Borg attack. Riker is setup with a good ship, but turns it down feeling his place in such a time of crisis is on Enterprise rather than getting use to a new ship just before going into battle. The events around Wolf 359 show that Riker was right in this assessment, as even with his knowledge of Picard, it is doubtful he could have turned that battle around without being on Enterprise. In the aftermath, it stepped down from Captain of the Enterprise, handing it back to Picard.
After that Starfleet stopped offering him promotions. Perhaps because they know he won't take it, or because they have a standing offer after Wolf 359 to basically give him whatever ship he wants. The thing is, he wants Enterprise.
The next time we hear of an offer for Riker to get a captaincy is USS Titan about a decade and a half later. Titan must be a hell of a command to get Riker off of wanting Enterprise.
The first time Riker declines a promotion to captain of a starship is when he instead accepts the position of first officer on the Enterprise. Command ones own small ship or be second in command of the Flagship of the Federation with the name Enterprise? Seeing what happened to the USS Drake, Riker likely made the right call.
The second time, Riker is offered a ship explored a distance part of known space. Probably not that small of a ship this time. He's been XO of Enterprise for a year or so now. He debates the idea with himself, but decides to stay on Enterprise for his own reasons. This is the one time he might have been wrong in making this choice.
The third time was right before the Borg attack. Riker is setup with a good ship, but turns it down feeling his place in such a time of crisis is on Enterprise rather than getting use to a new ship just before going into battle. The events around Wolf 359 show that Riker was right in this assessment, as even with his knowledge of Picard, it is doubtful he could have turned that battle around without being on Enterprise. In the aftermath, it stepped down from Captain of the Enterprise, handing it back to Picard.
After that Starfleet stopped offering him promotions. Perhaps because they know he won't take it, or because they have a standing offer after Wolf 359 to basically give him whatever ship he wants. The thing is, he wants Enterprise.
The next time we hear of an offer for Riker to get a captaincy is USS Titan about a decade and a half later. Titan must be a hell of a command to get Riker off of wanting Enterprise.
I think he was right to stick around as first officer of the flagship, his prior career was pretty ridiculously fast and it was both pretty clear and believable that he had regrets about not developing stronger personal relationships. It especially made sense that he therefore wouldn't want to either risk the isolation of command or leave Picard who he somewhat hero-worshiped.
Riker on both Enterprises lasted 16 years, on the E-E seven, not outrageous when a century before a ship's expected mission was five years.
Riker on both Enterprises lasted 16 years, on the E-E seven, not outrageous when a century before a ship's expected mission was five years.
It was probably a mistake to even mention Riker getting his own command. By doing so they put the question out there and unless Frakes quit the show, there was little chance of it happening. It made Riker look weak and stupid when he kept turning down those offers.
Maybe he was young and full of ambition, but that doesn't mean he couldn't change. As Deanna said, he was happy on board the Enterprise. He had friends and job that he enjoyed working under a captain that he respected.
Keep in mind, it wasn't until Nemesis, when he could take Deanna with him, that he finally accepted a command of his own. The man knew what he wanted, and he stayed put until he got it.
Keep in mind, it wasn't until Nemesis, when he could take Deanna with him, that he finally accepted a command of his own. The man knew what he wanted, and he stayed put until he got it.
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It worked out exactly how Riker wanted, so I'd say he ultimately made the right decision.
In modern parlance, flagship has also become a metaphor for the best product an organization has to offer (e.g., "this is our flagship product"). The Enterprise is the best ship, with the best crew in the fleet. To me, that qualifies.
In modern parlance, flagship has also become a metaphor for the best product an organization has to offer (e.g., "this is our flagship product"). The Enterprise is the best ship, with the best crew in the fleet. To me, that qualifies.
Who's to say that Picard doesn't have some kind of unofficial "flag officer" status? He has commanded fleets of ships before. Hell, in "First Contact," he just shows up and declares himself in charge.
It is not anymore. Princess Cruises has a flagship of the Princess fleet (Royal Princess presently). MV Britannia is flagship of P&O Cruises. MS Amsterdam is the Holland America Line's Pacific Flagship while MS Rotterdam is the Atlantic Flagship. Co-flagships.
Thus the USS Enterprise is the Flagship of the Federation. Not an admiral's flagship, but the flagship of an organization.
That's because he's a self centered jerk.
The thing is there is no 'wrong'. It is Riker's career and his choice, he can't possibly be 'wrong' in the scenario.
Looking at it from his point of view, he is second in command of the flagship of the fleet, that is a significant position. [I also highly doubt, as some people suggest here, that Starfleet are offering him little science ships to command so he can scan some nebula's, even for a first command his record must be glowing and I assume they are offering him decent ships]
Also, Riker isn't exactly old is he? Especially by 24th century standards. He has plenty of time to learn from one of the greatest captains in history.
So no, I certainly do not think he is 'wrong' to refuse his own command. I think he would deserve some credit for learning his craft for longer. No doubt many have rushed to captaincy and crumbled under the pressure. [I dont like this 'he lacks ambition' nonsense either...he is second in command of the Enterprise, he clearly has plenty of ambition]
Looking at it from his point of view, he is second in command of the flagship of the fleet, that is a significant position. [I also highly doubt, as some people suggest here, that Starfleet are offering him little science ships to command so he can scan some nebula's, even for a first command his record must be glowing and I assume they are offering him decent ships]
Also, Riker isn't exactly old is he? Especially by 24th century standards. He has plenty of time to learn from one of the greatest captains in history.
So no, I certainly do not think he is 'wrong' to refuse his own command. I think he would deserve some credit for learning his craft for longer. No doubt many have rushed to captaincy and crumbled under the pressure. [I dont like this 'he lacks ambition' nonsense either...he is second in command of the Enterprise, he clearly has plenty of ambition]
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