Logan’s Run, Planet of the Apes and other SciFi Classics

[Greg Cox]

Feel free to discuss your favorite SciFi classic movies. The thread `Rewatched TMP last Night´ in ST movies I-X tends to digress once in a while, so I decided to start a new thread.



I remember one of the Apes movies with an ape baby being exchanged. I can’t remember any details, I will re-watch it on TV when they show it next time.

I think that was "Escape From the Planet of the Apes" not that I've seen the classic Apes films for many years.

That was definitely Escape with the baby chimp swap.

As for Logan's Run . . . it certainly hasn't aged well, but you have to remember that back in 1976 big, lavish sci-fi adventures were few and far between. It's like not today, where we expect several big sci-fi blockbusters per summer. The Planet of the Apes series had petered out at that point, and nobody had heard of Star Wars or Indiana Jones yet, so LOGAN'S RUN was the big science fiction epic we all wanted to see.

And it was exciting and colorful and sexy . . . .

Meanwhile, the 1980 Flash Gordon is one of my favorite guilty pleasures. Yeah, if you want a serious adaptation of the classic comic strip, you're going to have issues. But I find the old movie addictively rewatchable and can quote chunks of the dialogue by heart:

"Klytus, I'm bored!"

"No, not the boreworms!"

Funny trivia: the guy who wrote the novelization of that movie was actually one of my old creative writing teachers!

 

[Christopher]

Meanwhile, the 1980 Flash Gordon is one of my favorite guilty pleasures. Yeah, if you want a serious adaptation of the classic comic strip, you're going to have issues. But I find the old movie addictively rewatchable and can quote chunks of the dialogue by heart:

I might not mind it so much if it weren't so dominant in modern perceptions of Flash Gordon. I mean, I could swear that a lot of people think the movie created the character, rather than parodying a character who's been around since 1934. And the straighter adaptations are relatively unremembered. The Buster Crabbe serials are well-known among those with an interest in such things, but that's probably a pretty small segment of the public today. The Filmation cartoon gets far less attention than it deserves, and the 2007 live-action series has a reputation as a terrible show, even though it actually got pretty good after the first few weak episodes drove away most of the audience.

I don't know, I'm wondering if it's hypocritical of me to disdain the campy FG movie when I'm such a fan of the Adam West Batman. But in that case, I think that perhaps the reason fandom today is more willing to embrace the campy version is because we've had other successful mass-media versions that have represented the more serious, respectable side of the franchise, so there's more balance. It's understood that the '66 show is a variant interpretation, so it isn't see as a threat to the reputation of the character. If Batman '66 were still the only version that the general public was familiar with, while attempts at more faithful adaptations were overlooked and forgotten, it would probably be a lot more frustrating for Batman fans.

 

[Greg Cox]

Meanwhile, the 1980 Flash Gordon is one of my favorite guilty pleasures. Yeah, if you want a serious adaptation of the classic comic strip, you're going to have issues. But I find the old movie addictively rewatchable and can quote chunks of the dialogue by heart:

I might not mind it so much if it weren't so dominant in modern perceptions of Flash Gordon. I mean, I could swear that a lot of people think the movie created the character, rather than parodying a character who's been around since 1934. And the straighter adaptations are relatively unremembered. The Buster Crabbe serials are well-known among those with an interest in such things, but that's probably a pretty small segment of the public today. The Filmation cartoon gets far less attention than it deserves, and the 2007 live-action series has a reputation as a terrible show, even though it actually got pretty good after the first few weak episodes drove away most of the audience.

I don't know, I'm wondering if it's hypocritical of me to disdain the campy FG movie when I'm such a fan of the Adam West Batman. But in that case, I think that perhaps the reason fandom today is more willing to embrace the campy version is because we've had other successful mass-media versions that have represented the more serious, respectable side of the franchise, so there's more balance. It's understood that the '66 show is a variant interpretation, so it isn't see as a threat to the reputation of the character. If Batman '66 were still the only version that the general public was familiar with, while attempts at more faithful adaptations were overlooked and forgotten, it would probably be a lot more frustrating for Batman fans.

You're probably onto something there. I think we're all a lot more forgiving and less uptight about the Adam West series now that (finally) it does not define Batman in the eyes of the general public.

But Batman remained a going concern in the comics for decades after the TV show, while Flash Gordon--for better or for worse--was already a nostalgic relic of the past by the time the movie came along. And his glory days are still firmly rooted in days gone by.

 

[Psion]

Two of my loves not yet mentioned: Colossus: The Forbin Project and (a bit of a guilty pleasure here) Final Countdown.

RESTORE CONTACT OR ACTION WILL BE TAKEN
Colossus displays the usual fear of AI and the supremacy of machines, but it's just marvellously produced and unfortunately overshadowed by movies like 2001 and Planet of the Apes. It's based on a trilogy of books, the first of which takes place in the 1960s, but the sequels appear to have advanced the calendar a century or two while retaining without explanation many of the same characters.

Splash the Zero!
The Final Countdown, starring Kirk Douglas and Martin Sheen features the aircraft carrier Nimitz getting caught in a freak storm that hurtles the vessel back to December 6, 1941. It has a rousing soundtrack by John Scott, mediocre but sufficient special effects, and lots of great carrier and fighter activity. The premise is scientifically flimsy, of course, and is ultimately let down when the film backs away from a full-on conflict with the Japanese. But the what-if premise sure is fun.

I've always wanted to see a remake featuring the Enterprise (why not?) that doesn't retreat right before Pearl Harbor. Fortunately, the Japanese themselves rose to the task (sort of) with their own Zipang ... an anime production that focuses on the exact same situation (it's the same storm!) involving the Japanese destroyer JDS Mirai right before the battle of Midway.

The crisis here is that the Japanese onboard the Mirai know the Americans as allies and think of the Japanese government of 1942 as wrong. So what do they do? They try their damnedest to lay low and not get in the way, but, inexorably, they get pulled in with stunning results. It's an animated series based on a manga, and as far as I know, the ship and crew never return to the present. At least not by the end of the first season.

 

[Timewalker]

I don't know if there are examples, where the movies are better than the series.

A different cast can change a lot, for the better or for the worse.

Some would say The Crow is an example of the movie being better than the series (The Crow: Stairway to Heaven). I've seen comments from a few who think nothing could ever be as good as the graphic novel that the movie was based on. I've read the graphic novel, and seen the movie and the series (to the point where my VHS tapes wore out from repeated viewing). All of them have their merits and their weak points, as does the later comic book series, which incorporated various elements of all three previous versions.

I haven't seen PoTA in decades, and need to revisit it soon.

I've had Logan's Run on DVD for a while, and have watched it a handful of times since then. My thoughts are that the film is enjoyable, but very much a product of the mid-70's. Nobody will be wowed by the story, and shopping mall sets, and the tinfoil boxed robot. The film was entirely too dark, dirty, and morbid. Almost the antithesis of Star Wars, which came out a few years later, though you can clearly see the similar design influences between the two films in costume and sets. I'd recommend any scifi fan watch the film at least once.

Part of Logan's Run was filmed in a shopping mall.

As for it being "dark, dirty, and morbid"... it's dystopian SF, and that's how that subgenre is. Very little is cheerful in such stories, and it isn't intended to be.

I've never been impressed with Logan's Run. It has its moments (some of them involving Jenny Agutter and a deficit of clothing), but it has a weak script, really bad miniature work on the domed city, and a rather ludicrous and arbitrary ending.

The only thing I found ludicrous about the ending was the scene when all the "young people" came out to meet the Old Man. How did they all get out there, when Logan and Jessica had such a difficult time of getting in and out on their own? And what did the Old Man have to make a fire with?

But otherwise, the ending made sense - the computer that dictated how long people were allowed to live was destroyed, and Logan and Jessica proved to everyone that there was a world outside the dome where people could live.


The novels were quite different, though. The concepts of the embedded crystals, the Life Clock, Lastday, Sanctuary, Runners, and Sandmen were all there, but the rest of the story took some different turns. For one thing, in the novel Lastday was on a person's 21st birthday, not their 30th. For another, people weren't confined to just that one city. There were other cities they could go, or if they wanted a more dangerous "wilderness" adventure, they could do that too.

I did another research. I never saw LR in the original, so I wonder how they called the teleport shaft, Jessica entered when she ended up with Logan. The German term is "Liebeslift" (love lift), but they obviously named it The Circuit (Rundgang) in the original (for whatever reason).

Jessica could have ended up in Kirk's quarters......

Jessica states that she felt lonely, so she put herself "on the Circuit" - kind of like advertising herself as available for a blind date, as it were.

 

[HIjol]

As far as the classics go, I LOVE Capricorn One, which I think often gets overlooked and isn't on nearly as much as it should be... It's not fantastical or overly heavy with the sci-fi, but it's a good chase thriller and boasts a curmudgeonly Elliot Gould as a wisecracking reporter with some good lines.

Flash Gordon is another film that really works for me as well... It's a good homage to the serials with Buster Crabbe along with some good old 70's cheese...

Gotta love "Flash Gordon"!!! It was a staple of Sunday Morning Television in the Chicago Market, years ago!

I think there might be some more recent "baggage" associated with "Capricorn One" that keeps it off the radar. It does not have the Juice it used to, but I remember it made me go "hmmm" at the time.

Two of my loves not yet mentioned: Colossus: The Forbin Project and (a bit of a guilty pleasure here) Final Countdown.

RESTORE CONTACT OR ACTION WILL BE TAKEN
Colossus displays the usual fear of AI and the supremacy of machines, but it's just marvellously produced and unfortunately overshadowed by movies like 2001 and Planet of the Apes. It's based on a trilogy of books, the first of which takes place in the 1960s, but the sequels appear to have advanced the calendar a century or two while retaining without explanation many of the same characters.

Splash the Zero!
The Final Countdown, starring Kirk Douglas and Martin Sheen features the aircraft carrier Nimitz getting caught in a freak storm that hurtles the vessel back to December 6, 1941. It has a rousing soundtrack by John Scott, mediocre but sufficient special effects, and lots of great carrier and fighter activity. The premise is scientifically flimsy, of course, and is ultimately let down when the film backs away from a full-on conflict with the Japanese. But the what-if premise sure is fun.

I've always wanted to see a remake featuring the Enterprise (why not?) that doesn't retreat right before Pearl Harbor. Fortunately, the Japanese themselves rose to the task (sort of) with their own Zipang ... an anime production that focuses on the exact same situation (it's the same storm!) involving the Japanese destroyer JDS Mirai right before the battle of Midway.

The crisis here is that the Japanese onboard the Mirai know the Americans as allies and think of the Japanese government of 1942 as wrong. So what do they do? They try their damnedest to lay low and not get in the way, but, inexorably, they get pulled in with stunning results. It's an animated series based on a manga, and as far as I know, the ship and crew never return to the present. At least not by the end of the first season.

"The Final Countdown" was one of my "guilty pleasures" also. I would love to see a remake with the CVN Enterprise. I remember a while back that Peter Douglas was going to try to remake it, so I think that means that, at least, it is not tied up with multiple Rightsholders and OptionTakers, like some of William Gibson's tales!

Nice idea for a thread, Kilana2! Fun to remember...

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I have fond memories of LR, I can re-watch it without being bored.

The film could not possibly adapt the numerous sub-plots and settings of the superior novel, so it is best viewed almost as an alternate universe version of Logan's story.

At a time (1976) when sci-fi films were generally low budget, as in the case of the Planet of the Apes series, which suffered reduced budgets with each new film, LR was treated to one of the healthier budgets (9 million) for a fantasy film up to that point in the decade. Of course, it would not be long before studios "got wise" (seeing post Star Wars $) and increase the budgets for fantasy movies such as Close Encounters of the Third Kind (20 million), Alien (11 million), and Star Trek: The Motion Picture (35 million).

High production values were evident in LR--at least in the non-mall locations / designs, and the only rushed or cheap-looking work was the already noted domed city miniature.

The bold, distinctive Goldsmith score probably lifted the movie to another level of respectability.

Despite its flaws (story, more than anything else), LR enjoyed enough audience appeal to spawn two sequel books (of the original novel), the half-hearted TV series, and Marvel's too-super hero-ized comic adaptation. The MEGO toy company (the king of movie/TV licensed action figures in the 70s) even developed prototypes for 8-inch action figures based on the TV series.

LR definitely had an impact, but it was largely mishandled.

I would say the film also served as an important bookend to the flood of dystopian sci-fi films which had been running nearly a decade up to that point. The bookend was that LR took a left turn to end on a positive note, while much of that sub-genre took the expected bleak turn (examples: A Clockwork Orange, Rollerball, a couple of Charlton Heston sci-fi films, etc.). After LR, a few dystopian-themed sci-fi films would follow, but with the exception of the original Mad Max (1979) and until the arrival of Blade Runner (1982), most sci-fi after LR headed toward the larger than life spectacle and never looked back.

I remember one of the Apes movies with an ape baby being exchanged. I can’t remember any details, I will re-watch it on TV when they show it next time.

That was the third in the Apes series--Escape from the Planet of the Apes (1971). Get ready for a running theme in that series where the protagonists are concerned.

 

[wulfio]

I liked forbidden planet, and planet of the vampires. I found the latter recently.

I was also a big fan of the last starfighter and enemy mine growing up.

 

[Kilana2]

Nice idea for a thread, Kilana2! Fun to remember...

Greg Cox's digressions on the I-X movies forum TMP thread were more interesting than the original question/statement. Judging by the answers, I thought it makes sense to relocate the discussion in this forum.


Several month ago I watched In Time with Justin Timberlake. They had a time clock and their time was running out (fast). I was rather disappointed.
I don't claim that modern SciFi movies are bad or uninteresting. I just do a comparison old vs new. Often I prefer the older movies, despite cheesy computerized scenes.
It depends on if a movie is able to catch my attention.

Regarding the Apes movies I prefer the originals. I know that the actors had to suffer for hours to be prepared (prosthetics, make-up)..... Nonetheless, those apes seemed to be more real to me.

 

[Christopher]

But Batman remained a going concern in the comics for decades after the TV show, while Flash Gordon--for better or for worse--was already a nostalgic relic of the past by the time the movie came along. And his glory days are still firmly rooted in days gone by.

Well, the comic strip continued to run in newspapers through 1993 as a daily and 2003 as a Sunday strip, though no doubt in far fewer papers than in its heyday. In fact, for much of the '90s, it was done by Thomas Warkentin, formerly of the syndicated Star Trek comic strip that ran from '79 through the early '80s.

What we need is a successful new version of Flash Gordon to provide counterbalance to the '80 movie. The 2007 series could've been that if it had started out as good as it eventually became. But unfortunately it was initially laboring under network pressure to be a Smallville clone and keep the action mostly Earthbound, as well as being saddled with a tiny budget and poor production values. And by the time it overcame these problems and became a richer, smarter show set primarily on Mongo, most viewers had already given up on it.

I keep hoping it will find new life on home video. All but one of the bad episodes are on the first disc of the four-DVD set, so if you can get through that, the rest is fairly good. But the problem is overcoming its bad reputation -- among those who've heard of it at all.

Colossus displays the usual fear of AI and the supremacy of machines, but it's just marvellously produced and unfortunately overshadowed by movies like 2001 and Planet of the Apes. It's based on a trilogy of books, the first of which takes place in the 1960s, but the sequels appear to have advanced the calendar a century or two while retaining without explanation many of the same characters.

It’s a movie I saw once or twice on TV when I was younger, and in retrospect I think an early apocalyptic short story I wrote in study hall in high school was unconsciously influenced by it. I wouldn't say it's one of the greats, but I think it’s a significant entry in the genre of nuclear-tension movies as well as evil-computer movies, with Colossus and Guardian arguably being forerunners of Skynet from the Terminator franchise, albeit more paternalistic and less genocidal. And I liked Joseph Sargent's directing. It had a naturalistic style that reminded me of his work on Star Trek's "The Corbomite Maneuver," with lots of everyday texture going on in the background. Also some cool Albert Whitlock matte paintings, and some sounds from the Universal sound effects library that would later be used in The Six Million Dollar Man.

The Final Countdown, starring Kirk Douglas and Martin Sheen features the aircraft carrier Nimitz getting caught in a freak storm that hurtles the vessel back to December 6, 1941. It has a rousing soundtrack by John Scott, mediocre but sufficient special effects, and lots of great carrier and fighter activity. The premise is scientifically flimsy, of course, and is ultimately let down when the film backs away from a full-on conflict with the Japanese. But the what-if premise sure is fun.

I actually find it more plausible than most time-travel movies, because it follows a self-consistent time-loop model rather than the logically inconsistent, physically invalid "changing history" model you usually see. Although I grant that does make for a dramatically weaker climax.

I've always wanted to see a remake featuring the Enterprise (why not?) that doesn't retreat right before Pearl Harbor.

I doubt that would be a good idea. It would probably end up being made by Michael Bay.

Fortunately, the Japanese themselves rose to the task (sort of) with their own Zipang ... an anime production that focuses on the exact same situation (it's the same storm!) involving the Japanese destroyer JDS Mirai right before the battle of Midway.

Sort of reminds me of Lily C.A.T., an anime movie that's evidently meant to take place in the same universe as Alien and is something of a semi-remake of it.

 

[Shawnster]

Gotta love "Flash Gordon"!!! It was a staple of Sunday Morning Television in the Chicago Market, years ago!

I think there might be some more recent "baggage" associated with "Capricorn One" that keeps it off the radar. It does not have the Juice it used to, but I remember it made me go "hmmm" at the time.

Why is that? Has he been edited out of the movie?

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Regarding the Apes movies I prefer the originals. I know that the actors had to suffer for hours to be prepared (prosthetics, make-up)..... Nonetheless, those apes seemed to be more real to me.

The originals were able to comment ofn their era (and forecast about larger issue to come) and still remain interesting, or occasionally riveting sci-fi. Not so much for the latest versions, and I also agree that actors in make-up appear real, where the CG apes just look like unrealistic digital elements.

 

[Greg Cox]

I was a big fan of Colossus as a kid, and remember being thrilled when I discovered that there were novels that continued the saga.

As for LOGAN'S RUN being dark and dirty and morbid . . . I don't remember it that way. The City is quite clean and bright and cheerful-looking. It actually seems like a nice place to live as long you don't mind dying at thirty. Especially compared to the likes of SOYLENT GREEN, THE OMEGA MAN, ROLLERBALL, THX-1138, the APES movies, and other downbeat seventies sci-fi flicks.

As I suggested on another thread, you can make a case that LOGAN'S RUN is the missing link between all those grim seventies dystopias and the more colorful space opera adventures of STAR WARS and its offspring. Yeah, it's technically a dystopia, too, but it's also fun and exciting and has a certain pulp adventure feel as well, complete with blasters and robots and such.

As for PLANET OF THE VAMPIRES . . . I haven't seen it in decades, but I remember it scaring the hell out of me when I was home alone babysitting one night.

 

[MacLeod]

I think you might be able to add Silent Running to that list.

 

[Noname Given]

I was a big fan of Colossus as a kid, and remember being thrilled when I discovered that there were novels that continued the saga.

I fondly recall "Colossus: The Forbin Project". I saw it on a local channel as an afternoon movie in 1975; and I myself (aged 12) was just getting into the world of actual computers (my Junior High had a Hewlett-Packard Teletype that was connected to an HP 2000 mainframe via a 110 Baud (not KBaud. Baud = slow as hell); but it launched me into the career I have today.

Anyway what I remember that struck me about the film was that teh background technology they had the scientists using (teletypes, impact printers, etc.) all existed and in the beginning they were all used in a normal/plausible manner. That blew me away because in all the other sci-fi of the day, they had computers doing ridiculous things; but the way they initially presented the 'COLUSUS' computer system in the film, it looked plausible - and I was surprised and blown away by that at the time.

The only other science fiction film that presented plausible computer systems of the era was "The Andromeda Strain".

 

[Reverend]

Am I the only one who watch Logan's Run as a child and was confused as to why they kept cutting away to someone's weird looking train set?

Seriously, I didn't realise those supposed to be an exterior shots until years later when I watched it again as a teen.

 

[DarthPipes]

I've always been a fan of Soylent Green and I do love me some pre-SW 70s sci-fi. I admit the first time I ever heard of Soylent Green was seeing Phil Hartman spoof Charlton Heston on an episode of SNL. I wish I could remember that episode.

Logan's Run is another favorite I like watching every once and a while.

I watched some of Star Trek The Motion Picture last week. No matter how many times I watch it, I can't help but feel disappointed in the end. The movie looks great and was the only one of the original films done on an epic scale. The score is great and it's the only one where the crew is still portrayed as young-ish. But the story itself is dull and devoid of action. It always feels like such a missed opportunity to me.

But at the same time I greatly enjoy the original script it was based on "In Thy Image." It's in the Star Trek The Lost Series book that came out in the 90s and I like to read it once or twice a year.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

As for LOGAN'S RUN being dark and dirty and morbid . . . I don't remember it that way. The City is quite clean and bright and cheerful-looking. It actually seems like a nice place to live as long you don't mind dying at thirty. Especially compared to the likes of SOYLENT GREEN, THE OMEGA MAN, ROLLERBALL, THX-1138, the APES movies, and other downbeat seventies sci-fi flicks.

As I suggested on another thread, you can make a case that LOGAN'S RUN is the missing link between all those grim seventies dystopias and the more colorful space opera adventures of STAR WARS and its offspring. Yeah, it's technically a dystopia, too, but it's also fun and exciting and has a certain pulp adventure feel as well, complete with blasters and robots and such. hell out of me when I was home alone babysitting one night.

That's why I referred to it as a bookend to the dystopian sub-genre; despite the main plot of ritual death / escape, the film still ends on a triumphant note, with the all-controlling computer destroyed, and Logan, Jessica the Old Man essentially restarting human civilization. The Heston films, Rollerball, A Clockwork Orange and other certainly ended in absolute pessimism, hopelessness or destruction of various kinds. Even Heston's The Omega Man--despite the preservation of his cure-blood--ended with two big, tragic deaths.

Logan's Run left the viewer with an arguably better world than the one encountered at the film's start. The only trade-off is the controlled, pleasure environment for the natural world.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

The miniature work was mediocre for it's time (both Star Trek and Space 1999 did better work and on a TV budget. I was 13 when the film came out - went to see it and laughed at the lousy miniature work.)

I think they weren't shot very well. It wasn't a fault of the miniatures, which were huge for the time.

I hadn't read the original novel yet (and if I had, I'd have even more issues with the film); but at the time, I found some of the concepts interesting, but it came across as the typical 'cold war cautionary tale about nuclear war' science fiction film - with a bit of a twist.

The novel, if I recall, dealt with the shallow obsession with youth at the time (which hasn't changed), and the age at which people would be killed was 21, not 30. There wasn't a domed city, either. It was set in a sprawling metropolis that occupied the entire U.S.

The movie, on the other hand... I can only assume was about drugs.

I was a big fan of Colossus as a kid, and remember being thrilled when I discovered that there were novels that continued the saga.

Yes. I actually watched the film for the first time a few months ago. It felt like something Harlan Ellison would have written, and you could see how it inspired The Terminator a few years later.

As for LOGAN'S RUN being dark and dirty and morbid . . . I don't remember it that way. The City is quite clean and bright and cheerful-looking. It actually seems like a nice place to live as long you don't mind dying at thirty. Especially compared to the likes of SOYLENT GREEN, THE OMEGA MAN, ROLLERBALL, THX-1138, the APES movies, and other downbeat seventies sci-fi flicks.

The city was clean, but the rest of the world, and the story, were rather bleak.

Since we are talking about the effects, if I recall the matte paintings used for DC overgrown with plants were pretty good!

 

[Greg Cox]

I think you might be able to add Silent Running to that list.

I thought about including Silent Running, but skipped it since the whole thing takes place on the spaceship and the dystopian, nature-less Earth is only implied.

But, yes, it was another downbeat, cautionary tale as most "serious" science fiction films were back in those days.

I dimly remember an essay by Samuel R. Delany in which he praised STAR WARS for, if nothing else, dispelling the idea that big-budget science fiction movies had to be bleak and dystopian.