Anyone Here Not Like The New Godzilla Film?

[Christopher]

I don't remember anything in Final Wars specifying Zilla's origin. It was just a random kaiju that was there for 30 seconds as a dig at the American film, nothing more than that. Yes, it was one of the kaiju unleashed by the aliens, so I can see where one could assume it had an alien origin, but the film didn't spell it out. It was too much of a throwaway for that. (Indeed, that was one of Final Wars' many problems. Most of Godzilla's battles with classic kaiju were just brief cameos, lip service to the history of the franchise as a half-hearted way of meeting the film's 50th-anniversary mandate.)

Also, a lot of people get confused about this, but Zilla in Final Wars was not meant to be the same creature from the Emmerich movie, just a lookalike. It wasn't supposed to be in continuity with that film; it was just borrowing a creature design from it. Indeed, the Tri-Star film can't possibly take place in the Final Wars universe, because FW is in a reality where kaiju attacks have been a worldwide reality for half a century.

It's worth remembering that the six Millennium-era films made from 1999-2004 were set in five distinct continuities, with nothing in common except that they were all sequels to the '54 original (except maybe for the '99 film, which doesn't explicitly reference it). So Final Wars is in a separate reality from GMK. As I mentioned, GMK is a reality in which Godzilla attacked once in 1954 and was not seen again until 2001. And it's the GMK reality that I consider reconcilable with the Tri-Star film.

And what would have happened had Emmerich's Godzilla been as popular as old Godzilla? Would it still have been punked by the so-called "true" or "real" Godzilla in that fanboy slugfest?

Toho's original plan was to let Tri-Star do a trilogy of Godzilla films, then restart the Japanese series with a 50th-anniversary film in 2004. Since the Emmerich film failed, Toho rushed a new series into production. That's why the Millennium films are set in so many different continuities -- since they didn't have time to settle on a new direction for the series, they used the first three films as tryouts for various possibilities. The makers of the second film were the "winners," but instead of continuing its universe, they then created another new one which ran for two films; but then the series was cancelled due to low box office, so Toho finished it off with yet another new continuity for Final Wars.

So if Emmerich's Godzilla had been a success, we wouldn't have gotten the Millennium films at all. Instead, we would've gotten an entirely different Godzilla movie in 2004, one that was the start of a new series.

 

[MacLeod]

Don't we have this sorts of debates everytime something is remade/re-imagined etc... Some of those which prefer a version of something thing that there is is the "true", "real" version?

These reimaginings etc.. have been going on for a while and will no doubt continue long after I am dead.

Yes I preferred the look of the Galactica in the 1970's version, but nuBSG was a better product (for the most part)

 

[DWF]

I don't remember anything in Final Wars specifying Zilla's origin. It was just a random kaiju that was there for 30 seconds as a dig at the American film, nothing more than that. Yes, it was one of the kaiju unleashed by the aliens, so I can see where one could assume it had an alien origin, but the film didn't spell it out. It was too much of a throwaway for that. (Indeed, that was one of Final Wars' many problems. Most of Godzilla's battles with classic kaiju were just brief cameos, lip service to the history of the franchise as a half-hearted way of meeting the film's 50th-anniversary mandate.)

Also, a lot of people get confused about this, but Zilla in Final Wars was not meant to be the same creature from the Emmerich movie, just a lookalike. It wasn't supposed to be in continuity with that film; it was just borrowing a creature design from it. Indeed, the Tri-Star film can't possibly take place in the Final Wars universe, because FW is in a reality where kaiju attacks have been a worldwide reality for half a century.

It's worth remembering that the six Millennium-era films made from 1999-2004 were set in five distinct continuities, with nothing in common except that they were all sequels to the '54 original (except maybe for the '99 film, which doesn't explicitly reference it). So Final Wars is in a separate reality from GMK. As I mentioned, GMK is a reality in which Godzilla attacked once in 1954 and was not seen again until 2001. And it's the GMK reality that I consider reconcilable with the Tri-Star film.

And what would have happened had Emmerich's Godzilla been as popular as old Godzilla? Would it still have been punked by the so-called "true" or "real" Godzilla in that fanboy slugfest?

Toho's original plan was to let Tri-Star do a trilogy of Godzilla films, then restart the Japanese series with a 50th-anniversary film in 2004. Since the Emmerich film failed, Toho rushed a new series into production. That's why the Millennium films are set in so many different continuities -- since they didn't have time to settle on a new direction for the series, they used the first three films as tryouts for various possibilities. The makers of the second film were the "winners," but instead of continuing its universe, they then created another new one which ran for two films; but then the series was cancelled due to low box office, so Toho finished it off with yet another new continuity for Final Wars.

So if Emmerich's Godzilla had been a success, we wouldn't have gotten the Millennium films at all. Instead, we would've gotten an entirely different Godzilla movie in 2004, one that was the start of a new series.

GMK and Final Wars were set in their seperate alternate realities, so no reason to assume Emmerich's version of Godzilla didn't exist in those universes as well. And yes it's pretty clear that 'Zilla is an alien kaiju controlled by the aliens.

It's hard to call Emmerich's a total failure, it's more likely that he and Devlin just didn't want to follow up on the movie after it's reception among the fans. ID4 and Stargate were also supposed to have sequels and only ID4 is getting one. They've made a habit of setting up movie series and no following though with them.

 

[DWF]

Actually in GMK the guy in the briefing says that it was Godzilla and that we Americans just didn't know any better. And any event Godzilla Final Wars shows that 'Zilla was an alien kaiju and could last more than 30 seconds against the real Godzilla.

(The following is not directed at DWF... just an observation about Godzilla Final Wars. )

Yeah, I heard about that sequence, and to me it looks like fanboy horseshite. "Ok, let's just show that absolutely noone approves of that thing that goes by Godzilla! Let's do it by having it destroyed in no time at all by the 'real Godzilla'! Let's do it for the 'true Godzilla fans'! " Sure, the movie may have been an official release, but it screams "Godzilla Fanboy!"

It would be like some jackass making a movie that showed the original Enterprise completely punking the Enterprise from the JJ Abrams movies.... or the classic Galactica completely wiping the floor with the newer Galactica. (Not that those haven't already been made on YouTube by malcontent fanboys.)

It's that whole horseshit of pandering to so-called "true fans" of the genre. They even have to justify just why Emmerich's Godzilla got unceremoniously punked... an alien kaiju? The Emmerich movie clearly demonstrated that Godzilla was created (accidentally) as the result of nuclear weapons tests, much the same as prior Godzilla.

And what would have happened had Emmerich's Godzilla been as popular as old Godzilla? Would it still have been punked by the so-called "true" or "real" Godzilla in that fanboy slugfest?

Again, DWF, this is not directed at you. You're just the messenger.

I know that Toho wes less than thrilled by Emmerich's movie but by making 'Zilla and other old kaiju alien in origin it gave them an excuse to put Godzilla though a guantlet of kaiju on the way to Toyko. Personally I thought the last hour of the movie was a wild ride and in the end it was a risky movie for Toho to make.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

And what would have happened had Emmerich's Godzilla been as popular as old Godzilla? Would it still have been punked by the so-called "true" or "real" Godzilla in that fanboy slugfest?

Considering Emmerich's Godzilla can be killed by conventional weaponry, yes it would.

 

[Gaith]

no absurd notion that it was any kind of hero or savior of children and archaeologists all along thrown in.

Your use of the word "absurd" is your own baggage. You're carrying into the film an expectation to be 100% plausible

Lol, wut? Didn't I just praise The Core, which is one of the least plausible movies ever made? I enjoy that movie because of its relatable, vivid characters who have emotionally plausible interactions, and the suspenseful story of their quest. What I find "absurd" is the notion that anyone in the movie's reality would not want to see the big lizard killed at the end, regardless of whether or not it happened to help out with the mega-mosquito threat. "Plausible" in a scientific sense has nothing to do with it.

Perhaps the problem with a movie like Godzilla is that the titular monster is too sentient (and real-world popular, for reasons which passeth understanding) to not be treated as a character, but too stupid to be an interesting dramatic player (it's a big-ass lizard, people)

This is misplaced expectations. There's no way a film like this can be anything other than very basic "world wrestling smackdown" style entertainment.

Well, yeah, that's pretty much my point. The very story structure is a sure-fire set of ingredients for a lousy movie.

Transformers, Cars, Herbie, Benji, Ol Yeller, Babe, Milo & Otis, The Black Stallion, Spirit, etc...

Anthropomorphism has been a staple of filmmaking for a very very long time. I get it. You don't like it. Many do.

I like Babe very much, thanks. I enjoy A Bug's Life and The Lion King. Anthropomorphism can be just fine when there's a story worth telling at play. "Huge lizard stomps around cities and vomits onto a huge mosquito, then swims away" is just not a story worth telling, IMO.

 

[BeatleJWOL]

It's hard to call Emmerich's a total failure, it's more likely that he and Devlin just didn't want to follow up on the movie after it's reception among the fans. ID4 and Stargate were also supposed to have sequels and only ID4 is getting one. They've made a habit of setting up movie series and no following though with them.

Pretty sure Stargate's been covered, even if it wasn't a movie series.

 

[Christopher]

There was supposed to be a Godzilla trilogy, but it was abandoned after one movie. That's not about Emmerich's lack of interest; after all, it's the studios that commission movies, and if they'd wanted sequels and Emmerich wasn't interested, they would've just hired someone else to make the sequels.

Also, Devlin and Emmerich have been trying for many years to convince MGM to do a sequel to their version of Stargate, one which would ignore the far more successful TV franchise. At last report, MGM had inexplicably agreed to go ahead with a Stargate reboot trilogy from them, and has even hired writers. So it's definitely not true that Devlin and Emmerich have no interest in doing sequels to their films.

 

[DWF]

It's hard to call Emmerich's a total failure, it's more likely that he and Devlin just didn't want to follow up on the movie after it's reception among the fans. ID4 and Stargate were also supposed to have sequels and only ID4 is getting one. They've made a habit of setting up movie series and no following though with them.

Pretty sure Stargate's been covered, even if it wasn't a movie series.

Yeah I know but Emmerich and Devlin hated the show. But they did have plans for a Stargate trilogy.

 

[beamMe]

Also, a lot of people get confused about this, but Zilla in Final Wars was not meant to be the same creature from the Emmerich movie, just a lookalike.

Sorry, but no one is getting confused by this. Everyone here knows in what "high" regards Emmerich's Godzilla is held by Toho.

And everyone got the joke the first time around. No need to play Gwen for us.

 

[DWF]

Also, a lot of people get confused about this, but Zilla in Final Wars was not meant to be the same creature from the Emmerich movie, just a lookalike.

Sorry, but no one is getting confused by this. Everyone here knows in what "high" regards Emmerich's Godzilla is held by Toho.

And everyone got the joke the first time around. No need to play Gwen for us.

Yeah, I just wondered what Godzilla had against the Sydney Opera House.

 

[beamMe]

Also, a lot of people get confused about this, but Zilla in Final Wars was not meant to be the same creature from the Emmerich movie, just a lookalike.

Sorry, but no one is getting confused by this. Everyone here knows in what "high" regards Emmerich's Godzilla is held by Toho.

And everyone got the joke the first time around. No need to play Gwen for us.

Yeah, I just wondered what Godzilla had against the Sydney Opera House.

Opera, it's not for everyone.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

To clarify, what's implicit in the film is that the Japanese had prior belief in, or awareness of, something called Gojira. Maybe that was an ancient legend as the film asserted, maybe it was just a movie character, but it provides a basis for the notion suggested in GMK that maybe, just maybe, there was a real Godzilla that the New York creature was mistaken for. That's all I'm saying. And since GMK was the much better movie of the two, I don't see anything to be gained by giving priority to the Tri-Star film's reading.

Who's giving "priority" to the Tri-Star film? I could not care less about defending that film or giving it priority over anything else. I just disagree with you on what was implied in the film.

As for the rest, please, just relax. This isn't a big deal or something to fight over. It's just an idea I like to play with. It's a silly thing to argue about.

Physician, heal thyself. This is quite possibly the least self-aware thing ever said on this BBS. 75% of what you do around here is run roughshod over people correcting them about the most pointless minutiae.

The fact of the matter is, I've seen you make that assertion every time a Godzilla discussion comes up, and there is quite simply absolutely nothing present in the film to support your theory. Nothing. I didn't say anything the first nine times I heard it, because you're right, it's a silly thing to argue about, but I don't know, this time I felt like saying something.

You're essentially doing all the things you criticize when fans come up with theories connecting V'ger and the Borg, for instance.

http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=3536283&postcount=8

You're seeing what you want to see, and rearranging the facts to fit your vision. The people who come up with those theories just do it for fun too. But they'll usually present it as far-fetched speculation, whereas you'll come right out and present it as established fact, like you did with this theory every time you mentioned it until I said something.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Anyway, in regards to the Gareth Edward's Godzilla, it was obvious he was using a Jaws-style less-is-more philosophy to showingthe monsters fighting or destroying things (although in Jaws that was largely accidental thanks to the malfunctioning shark, but it made for a better film), but it just felt like a massive case of kaiju-blocking after a while. Yeah, there were other films where Godzilla had less screen time (but not many), but several times throughout this film when they were about to show you something you wanted to see and cut to a family scene, or showed things from a distance in new broadcast, or cut to the aftermath, or showed things obscured by darkness or smoke. After about the sixth time that happened I finally got fed up with it. You can't keep teasing the audience like that unless you plan to deliver something huge at the end, and while the fighting scenes were good, they were too dark and too brief to make up for all the pull-away gimmicks before, IMO.

 

[Christopher]

You're seeing what you want to see, and rearranging the facts to fit your vision.

Yes, I am. I make no secret of that. This isn't science or history, it's movies. They're imaginary. And I'm entitled to play around with them and construct my own imaginary ways of interpreting them. I don't know why you have a problem with that.

Besides, as I've repeatedly pointed out, I'm only following the lead of Godzilla, Mothra, King Ghidorah: Giant Monsters All-Out Attack. That film, as an in-joke, implied that the TriStar movie took place in its reality. And I find it interesting how easy it is to play along with that assumption. Yes, of course the continuities don't fit together perfectly, but you'd be hard-pressed to find two Godzilla films purporting to be in the same continuity that don't have some continuity discrepancies between them. So that's hardly a dealbreaker in this case.

 

[martok2112]

I don't remember anything in Final Wars specifying Zilla's origin. It was just a random kaiju that was there for 30 seconds as a dig at the American film, nothing more than that. Yes, it was one of the kaiju unleashed by the aliens, so I can see where one could assume it had an alien origin, but the film didn't spell it out. It was too much of a throwaway for that. (Indeed, that was one of Final Wars' many problems. Most of Godzilla's battles with classic kaiju were just brief cameos, lip service to the history of the franchise as a half-hearted way of meeting the film's 50th-anniversary mandate.)

Also, a lot of people get confused about this, but Zilla in Final Wars was not meant to be the same creature from the Emmerich movie, just a lookalike. It wasn't supposed to be in continuity with that film; it was just borrowing a creature design from it. Indeed, the Tri-Star film can't possibly take place in the Final Wars universe, because FW is in a reality where kaiju attacks have been a worldwide reality for half a century.

It's worth remembering that the six Millennium-era films made from 1999-2004 were set in five distinct continuities, with nothing in common except that they were all sequels to the '54 original (except maybe for the '99 film, which doesn't explicitly reference it). So Final Wars is in a separate reality from GMK. As I mentioned, GMK is a reality in which Godzilla attacked once in 1954 and was not seen again until 2001. And it's the GMK reality that I consider reconcilable with the Tri-Star film.

And what would have happened had Emmerich's Godzilla been as popular as old Godzilla? Would it still have been punked by the so-called "true" or "real" Godzilla in that fanboy slugfest?

Toho's original plan was to let Tri-Star do a trilogy of Godzilla films, then restart the Japanese series with a 50th-anniversary film in 2004. Since the Emmerich film failed, Toho rushed a new series into production. That's why the Millennium films are set in so many different continuities -- since they didn't have time to settle on a new direction for the series, they used the first three films as tryouts for various possibilities. The makers of the second film were the "winners," but instead of continuing its universe, they then created another new one which ran for two films; but then the series was cancelled due to low box office, so Toho finished it off with yet another new continuity for Final Wars.

So if Emmerich's Godzilla had been a success, we wouldn't have gotten the Millennium films at all. Instead, we would've gotten an entirely different Godzilla movie in 2004, one that was the start of a new series.

Interesting.

 

[TRON JA307020]

I think it's a pretty common sentiment to not really like the new Godzilla. For me, It was about the most disappointing movie I ever saw(not the worst) because the trailer made it look so darn good.

I actually rather liked it. Let's face it, there aren't really that many good Godzilla movies. The '54 original is probably the smartest, classiest, most poignant and thought-provoking monster movie ever made, but most of its sequels have been cheesy and often very silly. I'd say that this was one of the better Godzilla movies overall, but it doesn't really have that much competition. It's certainly the best-made Godzilla movie ever, with the special effects conveying his size and majesty more convincingly than ever before.

My main disappointments were that there weren't enough Japanese characters (and the "Japan" scenes were so heavily populated with familiar Vancouver TV actors that it kind of spoiled the illusion), and that there was no use of Akira Ifukube's musical themes. Also, I feel Godzilla was a bit too tame and friendly.

The TOHO 90s Godzillas were actually quite good and show Godzilla in all his glory. This movie wanted to be thought provoking but it became boring real quick. Cranstons character was killed off before he even witnessed Godzilla. I would argue that Cranston was the 2nd biggest draw to this film after Godzilla and we see little of both of them.

 

[Hound of UIster]

114th birthday of Eiji Tsuburaya (1901-1970) creator of Godzilla and Ultraman, which gets him a Google Doodle.

https://www.google.com/doodles/

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Having just watched a bunch of the 50's & 60's Godzilla movies over the weekend on El Rey, yeah, he didn't appear that much in those.

A couple good fight scenes per movie and a lot of the human characters running around and doing things.

I had the same thought about the 2014 movie, "the monster didn't get much screen time", maybe less than average. I still own the blu-ray though.

At least he didn't resort to throwing and kicking rocks at the MUTO's.

 

[MacLeod]

Anyway, in regards to the Gareth Edward's Godzilla, it was obvious he was using a Jaws-style less-is-more philosophy to showingthe monsters fighting or destroying things (although in Jaws that was largely accidental thanks to the malfunctioning shark, but it made for a better film), but it just felt like a massive case of kaiju-blocking after a while. Yeah, there were other films where Godzilla had less screen time (but not many), but several times throughout this film when they were about to show you something you wanted to see and cut to a family scene, or showed things from a distance in new broadcast, or cut to the aftermath, or showed things obscured by darkness or smoke. After about the sixth time that happened I finally got fed up with it. You can't keep teasing the audience like that unless you plan to deliver something huge at the end, and while the fighting scenes were good, they were too dark and too brief to make up for all the pull-away gimmicks before, IMO.

I think what also helped Jaws was the excellent John Williams score. Which helped ramp up the tension.

But what does the audiance expect from a Godzillia film?, I suspect in part it's watching him going on a rampage of destruction through a city or two.