If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Recast

[Trekkin]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

I actually feel kind of bad about that. Makes me want to reassure Mos and Overgeeked that it's not like I'm trying to drive them off the board, you know? It's just arguing about a TV show/movie/whatever.

 

[eyeresist]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Phlox may have been featured a bit more than I recalled at first but I think Berman & Braga pretty deliberately wanted a centering on an Archer/T'Pol/Trip dynamic from the beginning and then later on moreso as Phlox and Reed got less attention.

Archer/Trip/T'Pol were the "trinity", but there was a fairly strong secondary cast (i.e. more prominent and developed), which is one thing that differentiates ENT from TOS. Sadly this was toned down a bit in the fourth season.

 

[BillJ]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Phlox may have been featured a bit more than I recalled at first but I think Berman & Braga pretty deliberately wanted a centering on an Archer/T'Pol/Trip dynamic from the beginning and then later on moreso as Phlox and Reed got less attention.

Archer/Trip/T'Pol were the "trinity", but there was a fairly strong secondary cast (i.e. more prominent and developed), which is one thing that differentiates ENT from TOS. Sadly this was toned down a bit in the fourth season.

I liked the Enterprise actors but I think TOS got it right. I was never exposed to inane character points like Sato's quarters having the stars going the wrong way or Reed liking pineapples.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

I actually feel kind of bad about that. Makes me want to reassure Mos and Overgeeked that it's not like I'm trying to drive them off the board, you know? It's just arguing about a TV show/movie/whatever.

Nothing to feel bad about. His choice really.

 

[eyeresist]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Archer/Trip/T'Pol were the "trinity", but there was a fairly strong secondary cast (i.e. more prominent and developed), which is one thing that differentiates ENT from TOS. Sadly this was toned down a bit in the fourth season.

I liked the Enterprise actors but I think TOS got it right. I was never exposed to inane character points like Sato's quarters having the stars going the wrong way or Reed liking pineapples.

The pineapple subplot was fairly inane, but was about Hoshi more than Malcolm. I did like how the development of Malcolm's background (burden of living up to family legacy; social difficulties) informed the actor's performance and underpinned his scenes without needing to be restated.

 

[fireproof78]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Archer/Trip/T'Pol were the "trinity", but there was a fairly strong secondary cast (i.e. more prominent and developed), which is one thing that differentiates ENT from TOS. Sadly this was toned down a bit in the fourth season.

I liked the Enterprise actors but I think TOS got it right. I was never exposed to inane character points like Sato's quarters having the stars going the wrong way or Reed liking pineapples.

The pineapple subplot was fairly inane, but was about Hoshi more than Malcolm. I did like how the development of Malcolm's background (burden of living up to family legacy; social difficulties) informed the actor's performance and underpinned his scenes without needing to be restated.

Of the characters, I found Malcom to be the most interesting, with Hoshie next. I really think they did a good job without overstating their characters, which is a credit to the actors as much as the writing.

 

[Trekkin]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Earlier in ENT they did seem to switch the characters in and out of prominence. Like you'd have Hoshi with her weapons training subplot, then a Phlox episode etc.

I can remember hearing somewhere that TOS was meant to work that way initially before Bones ended up so popular, but I'm not willing to lay any money on that. It could just be another one of those urban legends.

 

[drt]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Earlier in ENT they did seem to switch the characters in and out of prominence. Like you'd have Hoshi with her weapons training subplot, then a Phlox episode etc.

I can remember hearing somewhere that TOS was meant to work that way initially before Bones ended up so popular, but I'm not willing to lay any money on that. It could just be another one of those urban legends.

I'd go with urban legend, shoot we didn't really get any McCoy-centric episodes until the third season ("Empath" and "World is Hollow").

 

[Trekkin]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Not character-centric episodes exactly, more like a revolving 'Captain Kirk and ___' roster. And I was wrong, it was Spocks popularity that supposedly nixed that idea.

It's just I don't think that really makes sense when we know how things were working behind the scenes. If that was really intended to be the case, you'd think the others would have contractually been co-stars from the start like Nimoy was.

 

[BillJ]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Not character-centric episodes exactly, more like a revolving 'Captain Kirk and ___' roster. And I was wrong, it was Spocks popularity that supposedly nixed that idea.

It's just I don't think that really makes sense when we know how things were working behind the scenes. If that was really intended to be the case, you'd think the others would have contractually been co-stars from the start like Nimoy was.

But money was an issue for the production from the start, and stars and co-stars make more than day players.

 

[Trekkin]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

I know, that's why I'm cynical about it.

If I first heard about it on IMDB trivia, it's gone now. Though I have a feeling it was in one of those 'unofficial' guides.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Not character-centric episodes exactly, more like a revolving 'Captain Kirk and ___' roster. And I was wrong, it was Spocks popularity that supposedly nixed that idea.

It's just I don't think that really makes sense when we know how things were working behind the scenes. If that was really intended to be the case, you'd think the others would have contractually been co-stars from the start like Nimoy was.

But money was an issue for the production from the start, and stars and co-stars make more than day players.

I think Spock was a co star from the get go. Nimoy is in the opening credits from day one. Everyone else was in the closing credits wich seems to have four "levels":

Guest star for name actors like Robert Walker and Roger C Carmel
Co Starring/also starring for guest actors in larger roles like Bruce Hyde and Stewart Moss
Featuring for secondary regular characters like McCoy and Rand
And for reoccurring characters like Scotty, Sulu and Uhura.

By the second season De Kelly was in the opening credits. Doohan, Nichols, Koenig and Takei were in the closing credits under featuring.

 

[Trekkin]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

I know this is dragging up old garbage, but does this:

"The 9/11-style attack on London at the film's beginning is followed by backstory upon cover story and bright rhetoric soars and false flags are planted. They darkly wave. Political opportunity is not wasted on ready opportunists."


"...a terminally perfunctory followup that just barely gets the job done.."

...Not actually sound like a swipe at STID's intelligence? The first sounds more like a description of Marcus actions. Or maybe a swipe at Orci's politics if you're looking for criticisms of the writers. That latter doesn't tackle how 'dumb' the script is at all, just that the film as a whole is only 'okay'.

That's not me attacking the now-departed poster, but genuinely wondering if the criticism is there and I'm just not seeing it. No one else pointed it out, so I'm a little worried that I really have gone 'fanboy blind.'

Here's a question more on-topic. If they did decide to 'jump forward' to NuNext-Gen (and I'm not saying they will), would people prefer new versions of the exact same Next-Gen crew (ala Abrams films), or something like the initial EU relaunches where they kept maybe two of the 'main' regulars from Next-Gen and introduced bunch of originals and minor characters from other series?

 

[BillJ]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Here's a question more on-topic. If they did decide to 'jump forward' to NuNext-Gen (and I'm not saying they will), would people prefer new versions of the exact same Next-Gen crew (ala Abrams films), or something like the initial EU relaunches where they kept maybe two of the 'main' regulars from Next-Gen and introduced bunch of originals and minor characters from other series?

I'd put a young Picard on the Stargazer with Data. Hopefully, it would be the deep space show the opening of TNG teased us with.

 

[Autistoid]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

I find that hard to believe when 'Good Times' 'The Jeffersons' and 'Sanford and Son' were airing around the same time, and Hogan's Heroes was most definitely rerunning regularly. Julia was still in its initial airing until around 1971/72.

It could just be that the people who like to push Trek as a being a big mover in that area, are really only speaking for themselves. For them personally (not society or even amongst their fellow Trekkies) it was their first exposure to a lot of things. I certainly wouldn't have seen a lot of Julia as a kid in the 70's, but that would purely be because it wasn't a genre I was interested in. If I was older or not a scifi fan, I might have not seen much Trek at all even when it was at its peak.

But that doesn't make it 'influential' to society, just to us.

I think your missing an important aspect. She wasn't just black, she was black and people paid no attention to it.

The shows you mentioned focused on the fact in some way that these people were black.

Same with sulu, he was there no big deal, he fought with a sword not kung fu.

That can have alot of meaning to folk that don't wanna be trapped in the realities of their time.


Granted I think it's over stated, it didn't break ground but it didn't build mounds of dirt either.

 

[Autistoid]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Here's a question more on-topic. If they did decide to 'jump forward' to NuNext-Gen (and I'm not saying they will), would people prefer new versions of the exact same Next-Gen crew (ala Abrams films), or something like the initial EU relaunches where they kept maybe two of the 'main' regulars from Next-Gen and introduced bunch of originals and minor characters from other series?

I'd put a young Picard on the Stargazer with Data. Hopefully, it would be the deep space show the opening of TNG teased us with.

I like the idea that he was on a leave of absence from his captaincy.

And was part of starfleet intelligence.

He could be the same morally driven character, without everything being so dam safe.

Also memory wipes similar to the men in black, would had a more internal struggle that he would face.

Similar to what someone with PTS or a drug addiction might feel.

It would connect to past tng episodes, could even use patrick stewart as a partial narrator remember his past at the end of his career.

Picard is the perfect double agent. He's devote to the principals of the federation, has a distinguished career, and can adapt to almost any situation.

 

[BillJ]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

And was part of starfleet intelligence.

If I wanted to watch a spy show, I'd just go watch a spy show. I watch Star Trek because it offers me something unique. People out in the universe tackling problems with gusto.

Kirk and Spock are the original big, damn heroes. Punch the bad guy, save the universe, get the girl. I love that about Star Trek.

 

[Autistoid]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

And was part of starfleet intelligence.

If I wanted to watch a spy show, I'd just go watch a spy show. I watch Star Trek because it offers me something unique. People out in the universe tackling problems with gusto.

Kirk and Spock are the original big, damn heroes. Punch the bad guy, save the universe, get the girl. I love that about Star Trek.

Well part of his mission would be explored unexplained phenomenon that must be kept off the books, for the security of the federation.

It'd still be exploration, simply with the twist that these missions are beyond what your ordinary flag ship would see,

Genetic engineering

Omega particles

Cloaked romulan bases

etc etc.

 

[BillJ]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

And was part of starfleet intelligence.

If I wanted to watch a spy show, I'd just go watch a spy show. I watch Star Trek because it offers me something unique. People out in the universe tackling problems with gusto.

Kirk and Spock are the original big, damn heroes. Punch the bad guy, save the universe, get the girl. I love that about Star Trek.

Well part of his mission would be explored unexplained phenomenon that must be kept off the books, for the security of the federation.

It'd still be exploration, simply with the twist that these missions are beyond what your ordinary flag ship would see,

Genetic engineering

Omega particles

Cloaked romulan bases

etc etc.

I just don't see the need to pigeon-hole the show with that type of restraining concept when you can still do those types of stories within Star Trek's open format.

That really was the beauty of TOS (and later TNG), you could do any kind of story you wanted and it didn't seem out of place. They did comedy, court room drama, morality plays, medical drama, spy shows and everything in between. The open format and episodic nature of the shows made them open to everyone that wanted to try them.

 

[fireproof78]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

If I wanted to watch a spy show, I'd just go watch a spy show. I watch Star Trek because it offers me something unique. People out in the universe tackling problems with gusto.

Kirk and Spock are the original big, damn heroes. Punch the bad guy, save the universe, get the girl. I love that about Star Trek.

Well part of his mission would be explored unexplained phenomenon that must be kept off the books, for the security of the federation.

It'd still be exploration, simply with the twist that these missions are beyond what your ordinary flag ship would see,

Genetic engineering

Omega particles

Cloaked romulan bases

etc etc.

I just don't see the need to pigeon-hole the show with that type of restraining concept when you can still do those types of stories within Star Trek's open format.

That really was the beauty of TOS (and later TNG), you could do any kind of story you wanted and it didn't seem out of place. They did comedy, court room drama, morality plays, medical drama, spy shows and everything in between. The open format and episodic nature of the shows made them open to everyone that wanted to try them.

I agree. That was one of the draws to me about TOS and why TNG took so long for me to warm up. The flexible format did not translate as well in TNG with those characters, until much later on.

Also, as much as I am a fan of ID and Admiral Marcus' plot, I am so sick of Section 31 and Starfleet officers doing bad things in the name of the Federation, etc.

Is the concept of space exploration so mundane that we must add in a conspiracy theory as to why captains are out there?

TOS got away with it because it had, what, two stories that centered around Kirk and Spock infiltrating the enemy's territory ("Errand of Mercy" & "The Enterprise Incident.").

But, DS9 (again, love that show, but wow) had to keep dipping to the well of S31 doing its mustache twirling. It may not have been common but it was enough for me to remember it.

Oh, and Omega particles?

And again, there really is an element that underlies Star Trek of not presenting us with the moral answer, but just asking the question about something.

Genetic engineering? Khan was fun because it presented a question as to possible consequences. Bashier became a similar consequence with similar questions. Again, interesting exploration of humanity.

I really would like to avoid S31.