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David Gerrold finally speaking out about TNG behind-the-scenes

Not really. I dispute the idea that Gerrold was qualified to run an hour-long live action drama because he'd never done so before.

Well, that's a nonsensically circular standard. If the only way to become a showrunner were to have already been a showrunner, how the heck could anyone ever become a showrunner in the first place? Every showrunner has to start somewhere. Heck, Joss Whedon had never been a showrunner when he did Buffy the Vampire Slayer. And D.B. Weiss and David Benioff were never even TV writers at all prior to showrunning Game of Thrones.

Indeed, the majority of Star Trek showrunners were first-timers in that role: Maurice Hurley, Michael Piller, Jeri Taylor, Ira Steven Behr, Brannon Braga. They all rose through the ranks and had plenty of experience by the time they reached the showrunner level, but none of them had been an actual showrunner before, as far as I can tell. (Maybe add Kenneth Biller, whose only prior executive producer credit was on a single TV movie.)


It's different from being just a writer or just developing the format of the show. There's a business side to running a show that he doesn't seem to have any experience with.
The business side is the purview of the other executive producers. The showrunner is specifically the executive producer in charge of the writers' room; it's the other, non-creative EPs who handle the business and logistical end. For instance, Rick Berman handled the business and logistics for the Trek shows while the various showrunners (those listed above plus Roddenberry and Manny Coto) handled the writing. Bryan Burk handles the business side of Bad Robot's shows while Abrams handles the creative side. And so on.


Cushman is an unreliable source.
Agreed, but what does that have to do with my post? I never even mentioned Cushman. The only sources I've cited are the WGA West's website and a 1994 letter by Gerrold.


As for Gerrold, nearly every word out of the man's mouth is intended to inflate his importance and value. It's impossible to have a true picture of what his actual contributions to TNG were.
Naturally everyone has a bias, and Gerrold's ego is well-known. But I don't find your comments to be any more credible than his. In a matter this emotionally charged, it's best to step back and look at things dispassionately.


Also: I'm well aware of Gene's shady dealings with people, but let's also, for the moment, take a step back and acknowledge that just because he'd done it before, it doesn't automatically mean he did it with Gerrold. I'm not saying it couldn't have happened, but you make it sound like it's all but verified that it did.
I think you're confusing me with someone else, because I do nothing of the sort. On the contrary, I quoted a paragraph of a letter in which Gerrold says he did not begrudge Roddenberry's solo credit. I said that I found the WGA's reasoning for giving Roddenberry solo credit to be strange given the inconsistency with similar situations, but I fail to see how acknowledging a confusing decision by the members of the WGA could possibly be construed as a criticism of Roddenberry himself. Nor did I say the decision was wrong, merely puzzling because of the inconsistency. My interest is not in making value judgments or condemnations, merely assessing the facts.

It is also fallacious to define the question in terms of Roddenberry vs. Gerrold. If you read the letter I quoted above, it's clear that Gerrold does not blame Roddenberry for his mistreatment. He blames Leonard Maizlish and the other people who "handled" the increasingly ill and confused Roddenberry and convinced him that Gerrold had betrayed him. Gerrold has been denouncing Leonard Maizlish in countless ways for the past quarter-century, even to the extent of basing obnoxious and unethical characters on him or having characters in his books use Maizlish's name as a curse word. His animosity has never been directed at Roddenberry himself.
 
Christopher, I was responding to both your post and Phantom's. That's why you're so confused about parts of my reply. My mistake was simply in not quoting his response, which was directly preceding mine (or at least, it was before you replied as well before I finished my post.)

You're not wrong about the duties of a showrunner, but yet you also are not entirely correct. Many showrunners often handle both leading the writer's room and the business element of budgeting for a series. That's what I was getting at. Just because there's one definition for the job, its not necessarily so in every instance.

I don't personally believe Gerrold would have been a good showrunner for TNG. Sucks that he didn't get the job, but Hollywood is kind of shitty that way sometimes.

Anyway, you're right that I'm getting off point. My larger, main point, the one I'd love to get some kind of response from, perhaps even from Gerrold, is simply that I'd love to see/hear/read an actual interview with the guy where he isn't just bragging about himself while also shit-talking everyone else who ever stood in his way.
 
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Cushman is an unreliable source.

Cushman is a very reliable source. With his access to the GR archives plus original interviews, I found his books to be very well sourced. People are just po-d at him because he put a stake in the heart of some long-standing Trek myths that the fandom has built their edifice around, (eg "Trek failed", "NBC was obstructionist and not committed to the show", "GR as 'great creative mind' ", etc).

As for Gerrold, nearly every word out of the man's mouth is intended to inflate his importance and value. It's impossible to have a true picture of what his actual contributions to TNG were.

That said, I acknowledge, obviously that he contributed a lot to the birth of the show But because of the lack of reliable sources and just plain accurate information, we'll likely never know what really took place.
You presume he's inaccurate (for whatever reasons you have). Everything he's said (in the podcast, etc) that I heard/saw squares with what has been said in other sources (Inside Star Trek, Star Trek: The Unauthorized History, Man and Myth, etc).

Also: I'm well aware of Gene's shady dealings with people, but let's also, for the moment, take a step back and acknowledge that just because he'd done it before, it doesn't automatically mean he did it with Gerrold. I'm not saying it couldn't have happened, but you make it sound like it's all but verified that it did.
It's called a "pattern" (fancy name "modus operandi"). Gene did it again and again and again over the years. He did it to NBC with The Lieutenant, and again with Trek in the 60s. He did it to Paramount, Franz Joseph, et al in the 70s. He did it to Paramount in the 80s with the film series. He did it to David and DC in the late 80s with TNG.

What possible reason could you have to think he didn't do it, given his history.

Finally, Gerrold could do worlds of good for his reputation if he learned to communicate better. As I've said, I'd love to see an interview with the guy that isn't some hate-filled rant or a self-congratulatory one-man circle jerk for everything he's ever done. To my knowledge, no such interview exists or has been conducted.
Go back and re-listen to that podcast. Despite his many faults, David still spoke very highly of Gene. His more bitter moments were reserved for Mazlish (who absolutely no one has much good to say about, other than he was a very effective Holllywood lawyer), and Berman (who also drew much ire from both fans and creative staff).

If you had been treated by those two the way Gerrald was treated, would YOU have many kind things to say?

Many showrunners often handle both leading the writer's room and the business element of budgeting for a series. That's what I was getting at. Just because there's one definition for the job, its not necessarily so in every instance.

Gerrald addresses this in the podcast. He learned how to do those things from his time spent on TOS and TAS. It was one of his beefs against Berman that the TNG writers were kept off the sets and away from actual production which kept them from learning those lessons, which he felt were essential to not just a good producer, but a good writer.
 
Cushman is a very reliable source.
:guffaw: We've had entire threads showing why this claim is laughable. Well sourced threads.

I don't particularly care what you might or might not have posted in some thread. I've read Cushman, and I've read the other books I listed and Cushman's statements on multiple topics are confirmed numerous times in those other sources.

So, given independent confirmation, and given that Cushman has access to the GR archive, there is an excellent case made for his veracity.
 
Cushman is a very reliable source.
:guffaw: We've had entire threads showing why this claim is laughable. Well sourced threads.

I don't particularly care what you might or might not have posted in some thread. I've read Cushman, and I've read the other books I listed and Cushman's statements on multiple topics are confirmed numerous times in those other sources.

So, given independent confirmation, and given that Cushman has access to the GR archive, there is an excellent case made for his veracity.

So... you don't care to check your sources? Nerys Myk mentioned that these claims have been well sourced, proving beyond the shadow of a doubt that Cushman has no journalistic integrity. But you don't care what's been posted elsewhere, because it clashes with your own warped perception of what constitutes "fact?"

Are you Marc Cushman?

If not, I'll just say this. The demonstrable inaccuracy of the "facts" Cushman presents in his books are beyond refute. That he has access to the Roddenberry archive is nice, but he fudges a LOT of details in the books, several of which have been called out in quite a bit of detail and disproven over at Star Trek Fact Check, written by our own member Harvey.

Short version: Open your eyes, son. Cushman's veracity is shit.
 
...Gerrald...

Forgive me, but this has been bugging me throughout the thread. His name is spelled Gerrold, not Gerrald. You know what they say -- it doesn't matter whether you get good or bad publicity, as long as they spell your name right.
 
Cushman is a very reliable source.
:guffaw: We've had entire threads showing why this claim is laughable. Well sourced threads.

I don't particularly care what you might or might not have posted in some thread. I've read Cushman, and I've read the other books I listed and Cushman's statements on multiple topics are confirmed numerous times in those other sources.

So, given independent confirmation, and given that Cushman has access to the GR archive, there is an excellent case made for his veracity.

I suggest you actually do some research yourself. Check out his screw up with the UESPA series of books.
 
Cushman is a very reliable source.
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Re: David Gerrald finally speaking out about TNG behind-the-scenes

From what I have read Robert Justman seems the only other developer aside from Roddenberry to have a case as co-creator.

According to WGA rules:

1. "Created by" Credit Determination.
The WGA-determined "Created by" credit also determines the writer's eligibility for separated rights in a series. The "Created by" credit on a series is not determined until there is a series order. There are two ways a writer becomes eligible to seek "Created by" credit on an original series:
a. a writer writes a format for the series; or
b. a writer receives "Story by" or "Written by" credit on the pilot episode of the series.

To determine the "Created by" credit on an original episodic series, there must first be a final determination of credits on the pilot episode of the series.
Generally, if no format has been written for the series, the "Created by" credit will go to the writer(s) who received the "Story by" or "Written by" credit on the pilot. If a format has been written, a Separation of Rights arbitration may be required following the final credit determination on the pilot.

Now, my understanding is that David Gerrold wrote the first draft of the TNG bible (with input from Roddenberry, Justman, and Fontana), which would entitle him to creator credit under provision a -- most likely alongside Roddenberry, who also did a draft of the bible. And the credited writers on "Encounter at Farpoint" were D.C. Fontana and Gene Roddenberry, so Fontana could've been eligible for creator credit alongside Roddenberry under provision b. (Note that every other distinct Trek series -- counting TAS as a continuation of TOS -- gives the creator credit to the writer(s) of the pilot.)

And there are a number of elements in TNG that are recognizable from Gerrold's earlier writings. In The World of Star Trek, he proposed that the captain should stay on the ship and a dedicated "contact team" should go on away missions. In his 1980 Bantam Trek novel The Galactic Whirlpool, he mentioned a character named George La Forge (the name of a famous disabled fan) and depicted transporter-based food synthesizers that were basically replicators.

According to a 1994 letter by Gerrold:

The Guild looked over the matter and said that Gene's rights to the created by credit were protected because the show was a spinoff of Star Trek.

Which is odd, because none of the later Trek series assigned creator credit in that way. They just had a "Based upon Star Trek Created by Gene Roddenberry" credit along with a distinct credit for the shows' actual developers (DS9: Rick Berman & Michael Piller; VGR: Berman, Piller, and Jeri Taylor; ENT: Berman & Brannon Braga). And I've seen plenty of other spinoffs that had different creator credits from their parent programs. For instance, Buffy the Vampire Slayer was created by Joss Whedon, while Angel was created by Whedon and David Greenwalt. And Stargate SG-1 was developed for television by Jonathan Glassner and Brad Wright, while Stargate Atlantis and Stargate Universe were created by Wright and Robert C. Cooper. So the Guild's decision in this case seems anomalous.

Christopher has pretty much nailed it right here. :techman:
 
Given that he won a WGA settlement over his producership of TNG, I'd say there's good evidence he was qualified to run a show. He then went on to run a show for another studio (however briefly) after he left.

Everyone seems to be harping on the idea of him being "one sided". Well, the Paramount side has had decades to push their "disgruntled employee" line. Gerrald is "the other side" of this argument. And it's long past time for him to get his reputation back, IMO.

Gerrold on the Mission Log Podcast makes a nice point when he says that there's a grain of truth to that he's a disgruntled employee. However, he also mentions that 30 other people left TNG during its early years.

If you see D.C. Fontana in Rod Roddenberry's doc, you can see how utterly bitter she is.

If you read Yvonne Fern's "Gene Roddenberry: The Last Conversation", there is a moment where Bob Justman whispers into Gene Roddenberry's ear around the time of Gene's last days (I am paraphrasing this from memory) "I never screwed you."

David Gerrold wrote about this situation a long time back, so this is not new to me at all. This is the dirty dirty dirty nasty side of TNG that Paramount nor fandom really likes to talk about. You will read flowery things like "Rick Berman was hand picked by Gene Roddenberry", but that seems to be far from the truth. There were politics galore going on, and likely a lot of people (Berman included) who were trying to gain control of this cash-cow.

The truth is that Gene Roddenberry's lawyer disrupted the relationships between the most trusted people in Gene's professional life during his involvement in TNG. He was physically removed from the Paramount lot. And there were a LOT of people who left the show after being treated very badly. It's only when Gene essentially left the show and about the time when Michael Piller took control of the writers room that the show settled down.

I'm glad that David had the cajones to go to the writers guild with his evidence showing that he did producer level work. They obviously agreed with him, and his payout was likely very substantial (although I have read he can't talk about the details of how much $ he received).
 
It is a shame that we didn't get to see the version of TNG that we would've gotten in the absence of Leonard Maizlish, a TNG with Fontana, Gerrold, and Justman as the guiding spirits (along with Roddenberry, to the extent that he was able). It probably would've been more old-fashioned and less successful than the TNG we ultimately got under Piller, but I'm still curious about what it would've been like.
 
I don't really feel like chiming in on whether Gerrold would've made a good showrunner or not. Nor will I comment on whether he is qualified.

I do, however, want to suggest to everyone who thinks they understand what a showrunner does or does not do that they either watch the documentary "Showrunners" or read the book that's based on it.
 
Re: David Gerrald finally speaking out about TNG behind-the-scenes

And the credited writers on "Encounter at Farpoint" were D.C. Fontana and Gene Roddenberry, so Fontana could've been eligible for creator credit alongside Roddenberry under provision b. (Note that every other distinct Trek series -- counting TAS as a continuation of TOS -- gives the creator credit to the writer(s) of the pilot.)
My recollection is that Fontana wasn't involved with the first draft of the pilot; that was all Roddenberry. She came in to flesh it out to two hours, by bolting on the Q plot.

I don't believe the other shows had a similar situation of bringing in another writer for a rewrite.

So the Guild's decision in this case seems anomalous.
My understanding is that not every credit goes to the Guild; I thought they only got involved when there was a dispute and a party requested arbitration on the credits... Those other shows were a bit more amicable than TNG S1. ;)

(Or Canadian, but I repeat myself-- I mean, and not subject to WGA rules.)
 
Re: David Gerrald finally speaking out about TNG behind-the-scenes

And the credited writers on "Encounter at Farpoint" were D.C. Fontana and Gene Roddenberry, so Fontana could've been eligible for creator credit alongside Roddenberry under provision b. (Note that every other distinct Trek series -- counting TAS as a continuation of TOS -- gives the creator credit to the writer(s) of the pilot.)
My recollection is that Fontana wasn't involved with the first draft of the pilot; that was all Roddenberry. She came in to flesh it out to two hours, by bolting on the Q plot.

You've got that backwards. Fontana wrote the original story — "Meeting at Farpoint" — that eventually became the script for "Encounter." She was the writer on the production staff that was tapped to write the first episode.

The studio wanted a two-hour premier movie. Roddenberry wanted a one-hour. To pad out Fontana's story, Roddenberry added the Q element.
 
Re: David Gerrald finally speaking out about TNG behind-the-scenes

You've got that backwards. Fontana wrote the original story — "Meeting at Farpoint" — that eventually became the script for "Encounter." She was the writer on the production staff that was tapped to write the first episode.

The studio wanted a two-hour premier movie. Roddenberry wanted a one-hour. To pad out Fontana's story, Roddenberry added the Q element.
Oops. :alienblush:
 
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