If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Recast

[Shaka Zulu]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

I'm sorry, but as others have said, the 'PrimeVerse' is dead;it died with Enterprise. Bringing it back won't work, especially with a population of people used to the 2009 and 2013 movies. If there was something in the PrimeVerse to bring back, CBS would have done so already, but it hasn't (most likely due to budgetary and ratings concerns.) It's best to stick with Star Trek as it is on the big screen for now.

Again, I'm wholly conceding that the film franchise should be featuring the Kirk/Sock/TOS dynamic even if that means recasting.


But for television....


People only think it died with Enterprise because Enterprise sucked so badly.


A prequel television series to STAR TREK is seriously one of the absolute worst ideas that could possibly be conceived. But....they did it! And then they acted like it wasn't truly Trek by not embracing the name. The general reaction was, "Well, if you don't think you're STAR TREK, neither do I. Fuck off." And then it also sucked. And that series died a pathetic death.



Enterprise was a failure because it fucking sucked from start to finish. From the timing, to the concept, to the major conceptual decisions, it got cancelled and cut short because it fucking sucked.


Not because it was STAR TREK. It was Enterprise ---not STAR TREK: ENTERPRISE --- and it sucked. The people who say otherwise were loyal diehards and no one cares what they think.



And it's been 10 years since that turd was cancelled for being such a turd.


People will be ready for some STAR TREK that's actually ready to live up to the name. If it's done right. Certainly, ENT is the template of what not to do. In every single way.

All well and good as you see it, but CBS isn't Paramount Television, and doesn't have to have a Star Trek show on all of the time. When they feel it's right to have one on (or somebody succeeds Leslie Moonves who wouldn't mind making a Star Trek show, like the guy that runs The CW), then we'll see a new Star Trek TV show.

For my part, I wish that CBS would sell off the rights to Star Trek to Paramount so that a TV show could be made by Paramount's new TV division, but that's a big pipe dream.

 

[T'Girl]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Certainly, ENT is the template of what not to do. In every single way.

That last part isn't exactly true. While I not the biggest booster of ENT, to be fair it got a lot of things right, it just didn't put the pieces together correctly. And yes, it got some things blatantly wrong.

 

[HIjol]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

For pure "whoa!" Factor, the Dick van Dyke Show had it down. IMHO. Anyone remember the "switched baby" episode with Greg Morris!

 

[mos6507]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

There was nothing that made her prominent and stand out from Alden or Palmer or any other Enterprise communications officer. Honestly, if anyone qualified as a "token" it was Nichols as Lieutenant Uhura.

Not entirely true. She had a more prominent role in the early episodes, like Charlie-X or Conscience of the King. Her role diminished over time.

There's also a difference writing for a show with only 2 principles (like I Spy) and a show with a whole bridge full of characters. Even if TOS had been written as an ensemble, she wouldn't come close to having as much screen-time as Bill Cosby in I Spy--or Diahann Carroll in Julia.

 

[Trekkin]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

In one scene Uhura sings to Spock and ticks off Charlie. Rands random blue shirt friend has nearly as much to do, and her...'contribution' to the episode is arguably more memorable.

I don't really know what you're getting at with the last part. It sounds like your saying we should give TOS a break for not being the eras big effort to break through racial barriers, but no one is really commenting on that. We're just saying its status as a trailblazer (in that specific area) is a bit over hyped. It did at least provide a little media representation of people had a history of terrible portrayals in media (even if it was requested by the studio) and that is important. There's a lot of media which still fails to even reach TOS standards, including TNG.

Of course, I'm tired. I may be having a dumb moment.

 

[BillJ]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

There was nothing that made her prominent and stand out from Alden or Palmer or any other Enterprise communications officer. Honestly, if anyone qualified as a "token" it was Nichols as Lieutenant Uhura.

Not entirely true. She had a more prominent role in the early episodes, like Charlie-X or Conscience of the King. Her role diminished over time.

I'll concede this point. Early on they seemed to be trying to do something with the character, but by the middle of the first season, she was essentially a token.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

There was nothing that made her prominent and stand out from Alden or Palmer or any other Enterprise communications officer. Honestly, if anyone qualified as a "token" it was Nichols as Lieutenant Uhura.

Not entirely true. She had a more prominent role in the early episodes, like Charlie-X or Conscience of the King. Her role diminished over time.

There's also a difference writing for a show with only 2 principles (like I Spy) and a show with a whole bridge full of characters. Even if TOS had been written as an ensemble, she wouldn't come close to having as much screen-time as Bill Cosby in I Spy--or Diahann Carroll in Julia.

She would if she had been cast as Kirk or Spock.

Her prominence in both those episodes seem to be based on her being a singer.

 

[Trekkin]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

She had a bit more to do in Mirror, Mirror. At least as much as Scotty and Chekov at any rate.

Or maybe that costume was just very memorable. Makes it stick to the brain.

 

[BillJ]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Back when I was much younger, I fell into the trap that Trek was this special entity that was changing the world. But, as I matured and started reading books about its creation and the times it existed in, I realized its uniqueness was from the genre it existed in.

For a long time, Star Trek was really the only game in town for "mature" sci-fi with regular characters.

Roddenberry wasn't a visionary, he was a man that wanted to be hassled by the network as little as possible while telling the stories he wanted to tell. Science fiction offered the perfect cover for him to do that. He tainted his legacy a bit, in my eyes, by buying into the hype that grew from fandom and betrayed the people who just wanted ripping good stories.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

She had a bit more to do in Mirror, Mirror. At least as much as Scotty and Chekov at any rate.

Or maybe that costume was just very memorable. Makes it stick to the brain.

She had a nice part in "The Tholian Web too.

 

[mos6507]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

buying into the hype that grew from fandom

What people don't understand is that a franchise isn't just a top down thing imposed by the creators. Over time, pop culture decides how important these characters are.

While other shows (like Julia) may technically have been more trailblazing for black women actresses in a meaningful role, that show wasn't a hit in reruns in the 70s the way Star Trek was. Nichelle Nichols face was on the television screen for my generation (Generation-X) while I was growing up more than any other black woman on television outside of Susan on Sesame Street, just through sheer repetition. It didn't matter that she was only saying "Hailing frequencies open". She was there in the living room, and that meant something at the time. It may not seem like much now, but we're talking 40+ years ago when america was still fighting over issues like forced school busing.

So I think Star Trek was actually more influential in the 70s than in the 60s because it had daily reruns and people really were discovering it for the first time.

 

[Trekkin]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

I find that hard to believe when 'Good Times' 'The Jeffersons' and 'Sanford and Son' were airing around the same time, and Hogan's Heroes was most definitely rerunning regularly. Julia was still in its initial airing until around 1971/72.

It could just be that the people who like to push Trek as a being a big mover in that area, are really only speaking for themselves. For them personally (not society or even amongst their fellow Trekkies) it was their first exposure to a lot of things. I certainly wouldn't have seen a lot of Julia as a kid in the 70's, but that would purely be because it wasn't a genre I was interested in. If I was older or not a scifi fan, I might have not seen much Trek at all even when it was at its peak.

But that doesn't make it 'influential' to society, just to us.

 

[fireproof78]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

I find that hard to believe when 'Good Times' 'The Jeffersons' and 'Sanford and Son' were airing around the same time, and Hogan's Heroes was most definitely rerunning regularly. Julia was still in its initial airing until around 1971/72.

It could just be that the people who like to push Trek as a being a big mover in that area, are really only speaking for themselves. For them personally (not society or even amongst their fellow Trekkies) it was their first exposure to a lot of things. I certainly wouldn't have seen a lot of Julia as a kid in the 70's, but that would purely be because it wasn't a genre I was interested in. If I was older or not a scifi fan, I might have not seen much Trek at all even when it was at its peak.

But that doesn't make it 'influential' to society, just to us.

Societal influence is tough to gauge, even looking back on it, because so much is informed by our perception of reality.

As much as I celebrate TOS's influence on inter-racial crew, and I have no doubt that it had an influence, I just question the concept that it was THE influence, THE catalyst for social change. GR may have wanted it to be that way at some point, but he also was prepared to move on from Trek if it fell through.

It frustrates me because I think the truth is more meaningful. I think that there is a "forest for the trees" phenomenon. It isn't that Trek wasn't meaningful or that Hogan's Heroes wasn't important or what have you. It was the fact that ALL of these pieces, plus societal change, informed pop culture to create a more inter-racial society, or moving down the road.

On an unrelated note, the whole MLK story, and first "inter-racial kiss" keeps getting passed on because even smaller, po-culture "fact books" keep the stories going. I read one today and found it quite frustrating.

 

[suarezguy]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Certainly, ENT is the template of what not to do. In every single way.

Well the idea of focusing on a big three of characters worked both before in the original series and then later in the reboot films. One of those being a Vulcan having a romantic tension/relationship with another one also didn't prevent the reboot films from succeeding.

Since we're comparing Abrams Trek to the various TV series, I have to disagree that the original series was action-heavy to the same extent or in the same way as in the Abrams movies; there was action in some episodes and a lot of it in a few but hardly a lot of it in many or most.

 

[Trekkin]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Who was the third part of the trio in ENT? Phlox or Trip?

I'm not being sarcastic, just genuinely can't work it out. VOY started out with Janeway-Tuvok-Chakotay, but that got shaken up a bit with Seven and the EMH being so popular.

I think people overestimate how much 'action' there is in Abrams films. STID had two fights, and Khans assassination attempt on the admirals. I guess we could count the ship-to-ship sequence, but where do you draw the line on 'action sequence' then? That puts it about even with TUC, and behind FC. Its action scenes are also a lot shorter than those movies.

'Stopping the ship from blowing up mid-air' and 'get attacked by the natives' did happen quiet a lot in TOS. Both of those things happened in Elaan of Troyius alone.

 

[suarezguy]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Phlox may have been featured a bit more than I recalled at first but I think Berman & Braga pretty deliberately wanted a centering on an Archer/T'Pol/Trip dynamic from the beginning and then later on moreso as Phlox and Reed got less attention.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Also presented as a fact, also provably untrue as some posters on this board can show. Some were/are, some weren't/still aren't. The vast majority of teenagers and young adults have never seen the show, and have little knowledge of it. If you think the original series is this hugely popular show with this generation, then you're just wrong. Most people who are exposed to Star Trek from the Abrams films would find TOS boring and beyond out of date. It'd be like going from a PS4 to an Atari 2600. Even I, who grew up on TNG and DS9 and love those shows, find TOS boring and corny.

Bah, it should be a 10.

One question:

Why, if you find TOS corny, are you even here on this board? And now that you're here, why are you even commenting at the thread about a movie based on TOS?

 

[Trekkin]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

My post somehow got quoted in there. The 'some did/some didn't' bit at the top. It makes Mook look very conflicted and random.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

Who was the third part of the trio in ENT? Phlox or Trip?

I'm not being sarcastic, just genuinely can't work it out. VOY started out with Janeway-Tuvok-Chakotay, but that got shaken up a bit with Seven and the EMH being so popular.

I think people overestimate how much 'action' there is in Abrams films. STID had two fights, and Khans assassination attempt on the admirals. I guess we could count the ship-to-ship sequence, but where do you draw the line on 'action sequence' then? That puts it about even with TUC, and behind FC. Its action scenes are also a lot shorter than those movies.

'Stopping the ship from blowing up mid-air' and 'get attacked by the natives' did happen quiet a lot in TOS. Both of those things happened in Elaan of Troyius alone.

No shortage of action and adventure in TOS, that's for sure. Even when they don't leave the ship there is often a fight or other action sequence.

Phlox may have been featured a bit more than I recalled at first but I think Berman & Braga pretty deliberately wanted a centering on an Archer/T'Pol/Trip dynamic from the beginning and then later on moreso as Phlox and Reed got less attention.

Yeah it's Archer/T'Pol/Trip in the Kirk/Spock/McCoy configuration. Trip is a Southerner and Archer's best friend for that reason.

I don't know if the other shows were going for that dynamic. Picard and Riker were meant to be the lead characters in TNG, but Riker seemed to lose ground to Data and Worf as the show progressed. Both of whom shared Spock's "DNA".

Also presented as a fact, also provably untrue as some posters on this board can show. Some were/are, some weren't/still aren't. The vast majority of teenagers and young adults have never seen the show, and have little knowledge of it. If you think the original series is this hugely popular show with this generation, then you're just wrong. Most people who are exposed to Star Trek from the Abrams films would find TOS boring and beyond out of date. It'd be like going from a PS4 to an Atari 2600. Even I, who grew up on TNG and DS9 and love those shows, find TOS boring and corny.

Bah, it should be a 10.

One question:

Why, if you find TOS corny, are you even here on this board? And now that you're here, why are you even commenting at the thread about a movie based on TOS?

He's taken his ball and gone home. So you're wasting your time.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Re: If Star Trek Beyond Is The Last Film Should They Start NuTNG or Re

What people don't understand is that a franchise isn't just a top down thing imposed by the creators. Over time, pop culture decides how important these characters are.

That may be, but truth is still truth, and the big truth was, Star Trek was't first in these things as people like to think that it was.

While other shows (like Julia) may technically have been more trailblazing for black women actresses in a meaningful role, that show wasn't a hit in reruns in the 70's the way Star Trek was. Nichelle Nichols face was on the television screen for my generation (Generation-X) while I was growing up more than any other black woman on television outside of Susan on Sesame Street, just through sheer repetition. It didn't matter that she was only saying "Hailing frequencies open". She was there in the living room, and that meant something at the time. It may not seem like much now, but we're talking 40+ years ago when america was still fighting over issues like forced school busing.

So I think Star Trek was actually more influential in the '70's than in the '60's because it had daily reruns and people really were discovering it for the first time.

Said shows were probably only not that influential as Star Trek because they weren't rerun enough (in some or most cases) due to the stupid, greedy, and onerous requirements in North America that required a show to have a big number of episodes (or two seasons) for syndication and the like, with shows like East Side/West Side that were groundbreaking pushed to the margins (to be fair to Star Trek TOS, Julia was soundly dissed by a lot of black radicals for Julia not being 'black' enough [wonder what they'd think of J.J Evans and Good Times a few years down the pike?]) As said by others already, just because it was very prolific on TV in the 1970's doesn't mean that it was first or prominent in dealing with social issues.

He's taken his ball and gone home. So you're wasting your time.

Didn't notice that, thanks for the info. Shows what happens when you have nothing to back up what you've said.