Dark Matter, SyFy's new space show, premieres June 12th

[cylkoth]

Meanwhile, I have higher hopes that The Expanse will get a bigger marketing budget. There are some hints it's already been approved for a second season, even, and at six months away I'm running into far more people on the net who have heard of it than with Dark Matter just days before its debut. It's possible Syfy is just being pick-and-choose on where it puts its dollars and wasn't overly fond of what Dark Matter and next week's Killjoys were offering.

The Expanse is supposed to be a mini series. A little early for hints of going beyond a first installment, but if that's the case, Syfy must really like what they've seen. That's encouraging.

Mini-series? I thought The Expanse will be ten episodes, which certainly seems to be the norm for a season these days?

You're right. I apologize. I assumed, due to it's December launch, that Syfy would be airing it as a 10 hour mini series ala Steven Spielberg's Taken (technically five 2 hour installments).
It's unusual to debut a big budget weekly series during the month, so I jumped to the miniseries conclusion. Plus Childhood's End is also slated for December. It's gonna be a busy season.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

This is getting filed under "keep watching," at least for now.

Of the characters, so far I like the android the best, and I like what actress Zoie Palmer is doing with her. The planet shots from orbit were nice, and yeah the going-to-FTL-effect is cool.

Unfortunately, there are signs that the stupid is just around the corner.

Spoiler: Some issues

For example, that dude should have been killed when his BFG blast reflected off the Special Door. Unless of course he was trying to stun it.

And speaking of possible stupid, there'd better be a good reason why convicts know how to run critical systems, including, if not especially, how to override the security android.

More stupid, an alien race was (paraphrasing) referred to as part human, part lizard. Laughing as hard as that idea warrants is injurious; among other things, the colonists should have known better than to put it that way.

Pet peeve: It cools me to a show when main characters can't use participles properly.

 

[JD]

I really enjoyed it. It wasn't amazing or anything, but I though most of the characters seemed to have potential, and the end twist was definitely interesting, and made me want to see what happens next.

I will be honest though, I'm already much more interested in Killjoys than Dark Matter. After just a couple videos and an article, it already seems to be setting up a much more unique and interesting universe.

 

[QCzar]

Spoiler: Some issues

And speaking of possible stupid, there'd better be a good reason why convicts know how to run critical systems, including, if not especially, how to override the security android.

Spoiler: Well

I really don't think the reveal was meant to show them as just convicts. I guess we'll find out as things progress, but it seems obvious to me that they're pirates/mercenaries of some sort, hence why so many of them (at least three, maybe more) had "piracy" among their charges/convictions.

No reason to assume pirates/mercs wouldn't know their own ship. Remember, their amnesia is obviously very selective, erasing personal details but leaving many of their skills intact. And they'd have to possess skills to develop such a reputation.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

^ That sort of reveal might make it work, yeah.

 

[Christopher]

I really don't think the reveal was meant to show them as just convicts. I guess we'll find out as things progress, but it seems obvious to me that they're pirates/mercenaries of some sort, hence why so many of them (at least three, maybe more) had "piracy" among their charges/convictions.

Exactly. They're the "Raza," the brutal enforcers of the evil corporation, the ones sent to stamp out resistance and leave no survivors to tell the tale. Their criminal past was what qualified them for the job.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Yeah, but, they didn't know that (until they figured it out). Ergo, they're like slave labor, by which I mean that it seems likely that the situation was going to be that they had no choice but to be the "Raza." It's simply odd that slaves are given the means to overthrow their masters, which was my specific complaint (there needs to be something to explain how come).

 

[Christopher]

Yeah, but, they didn't know that (until they figured it out). Ergo, they're like slave labor, by which I mean that it seems likely that the situation was going to be that they had no choice but to be the "Raza."

I think you're misunderstanding the situation. They couldn't have been effective as a murderous hit squad without knowing that they were a murderous hit squad. And they've been at it long enough that the name of their ship has become infamous. Implicitly, they've been going around slaughtering the corporation's enemies for some time, with full knowledge of their identities. Now, some mysterious thing has happened to take away their memories, and that's given them a clean slate of sorts, an opportunity to reject that violent past and become something better. That seems like it's going to be a major arc of the show.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Yeah, but, they didn't know that (until they figured it out). Ergo, they're like slave labor, by which I mean that it seems likely that the situation was going to be that they had no choice but to be the "Raza."

I think you're misunderstanding the situation. They couldn't have been effective as a murderous hit squad without knowing that they were a murderous hit squad. And they've been at it long enough that the name of their ship has become infamous. Implicitly, they've been going around slaughtering the corporation's enemies for some time, with full knowledge of their identities. Now, some mysterious thing has happened to take away their memories, and that's given them a clean slate of sorts, an opportunity to reject that violent past and become something better. That seems like it's going to be a major arc of the show.

Oh, for fuck's sake. You edited out the specific issue I had with it. So, clearly, I think you misunderstand the point I was making, which to recapitulate is that there is a piece here that demands explanation, as it is bordering on the implausible.

 

[ATimson]

Oh, for fuck's sake. You edited out the specific issue I had with it. So, clearly, I think you misunderstand the point I was making, which to recapitulate is that there is a piece here that demands explanation, as it is bordering on the implausible.

It only demands explanation if you assume their losing their memory was something deliberately done by their corporate masters. I don't think that's an assumption that you can make.

Obviously, someone has already been going out in the Raza, terrorizing the galaxy. Right now I don't see any reason to believe that it's not our crew.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Oh, for fuck's sake. You edited out the specific issue I had with it. So, clearly, I think you misunderstand the point I was making, which to recapitulate is that there is a piece here that demands explanation, as it is bordering on the implausible.

It only demands explanation if you assume their losing their memory was something deliberately done by their corporate masters. I don't think that's an assumption that you can make.

Obviously, someone has already been going out in the Raza, terrorizing the galaxy. Right now I don't see any reason to believe that it's not our crew.

It's not just a question of missing memories, but of what information they've been given.

One of the functions of the security android seemed to be to keep them in line. It is illogical that they would have been given the ability to disable the security android by their corporate masters.

Now, if someone else had told Number Two how to disable the android (i.e., programmed it into her memory), that would make sense. But then again, that would fall into the category of what sort of reveal I think is necessary for the situation to make sense.

The whole awakening seemed like a malfunction, including the missing memories. It seemed possible that even the security android was malfunctioning (to clarify my thinking process, it seems likely when she first awoke that either she was malfunctioning or she was reacting violently to what she initially assumed was a breakout attempt by the six humans), but even if she were malfunctioning I can't imagine that the corporation would want the conscripts (?) disabling her (and they certainly wouldn't want them to be able to disable her in order to breakout). But given how selective what they knew was, yeah, it seemed like it (i.e. what seemed like a malfunction) was designed by an external agent.

 

[Christopher]

It only demands explanation if you assume their losing their memory was something deliberately done by their corporate masters. I don't think that's an assumption that you can make.

Yes, exactly. It seems clear to me that the memory wipe is intended to be more mysterious than that.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

It only demands explanation if you assume their losing their memory was something deliberately done by their corporate masters. I don't think that's an assumption that you can make.

Yes, exactly. It seems clear to me that the memory wipe is intended to be more mysterious than that.

Yes, obviously.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

Saw it, liked it. Want more.

I didn't set my expectations terribly, and I think that was justified. We aren't looking for the next BSG (and I think with SGU we know that ain't gonna happen), but at the same time it fulfilled my expectations for lightwieght sci-fi set in space... With a LOT of potential to hit above that weight, IMO. The show sets a good platform to move upwards from, and the final twist - though not too tough to guess from about when the missiles started coming in - was solid enough for me to want to tune in and see where they go from there.

Special effects were decent, but there remains a lot to see. I doubt we'll see much more of it like this, but "real" space combat should be almost 100% beyond visual range fighting, instead of Trekkish slugfests where you can see people int he windows of the opposing vessel. The fight we saw here was intended to keep the opponent from being identified to the audience, so once we establish who that is, we'll see stuff we've seen before in Stargate. Nothing wrong with that from a visual standpoint, of course!

The sets were great, if overly dark (the norm for spacey stuff these days). Clever re-use of similar sets (cargo bays, quarters) by swapping out lights and some background panels. The bridge is pretty cool, but a little Power Rangers-esque in presentation. Pre-pro designs actually had the three centre consoles as a single unit, with a couch / bench on the lower level (think Liberator from Blake's 7). Would have liked to see that maintained. There are various sketches about the net of how much they thought out the ship's layout, deck plans et. al, to a "Firefly" level of detail. I'm looking forward to seeing more of it.

OTOH, the location shoot suffered from the woefully-cliched "abandoned warehouse" and "empty quarry" placements, which is pretty common for Toronto area shows. Everyone watching Defiance and Killjoys will doubtless see some re-used areas before long. Beats the perpetual evergreen forests of Stargate, I suppose..?

Mark

 

[Christopher]

I doubt we'll see much more of it like this, but "real" space combat should be almost 100% beyond visual range fighting, instead of Trekkish slugfests where you can see people int he windows of the opposing vessel.

I'd attribute that more to Star Wars than Star Trek. The original ST never showed two battling ships in th same frame, due to FX limitations. The first Trek production do that was The Wrath of Khan, which had FX by ILM and was clearly trying to emulate Star Wars's approach to space action (albeit drawing more on Age-of-Sail naval battles than WWII dogfights).

The sets were great, if overly dark (the norm for spacey stuff these days).

To be fair, we came in with the ship badly damaged and on low power. It may get brighter once it's fully repaired.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

That would be nice - the sets looked much more detailed than the run of the mill. Some have suggested resemblances to the Destiny of SGU fame, which would make sense since they share the same production designer. A little less steampunkey, to be sure. The only think that I don't like much is how grey the ship looks from the outside. I guess most ships don't NEED to be painted if they don't have to, but a little artistic flare would be nice. Then again, Joe Mallozzi has stressed how much anime-style went into this show, and anime tends to be known for ships with a uniform battleship grey coloration.

http://darkmatter.wikia.com/wiki/Raza

http://io9.com/meet-the-ships-of-dark-matters-biggest-antagonists-1710942614


Mark

 

[Christopher]

Then again, Joe Mallozzi has stressed how much anime-style went into this show, and anime tends to be known for ships with a uniform battleship grey coloration.

I'd hardly say that. I read an article mentioning that Mallozzi had a Cowboy Bebop poster on his wall, and the ships in Bebop were far from being uniformly gray. Okay, the Bebop itself is kind of a monochrome brown, but there's also Spike's bright red Swordfish II, Jet's white-and-yellow Hammer Head, and Faye's aptly named Red Tail, bright white with a bit of red at the rear and a gold cockpit. Not to mention all the space trucks emblazoned with corporate logos and the like.

In fact, the anime I'm familiar with tends to have pretty colorful ships. The Yamato is literally battleship gray, but with a bright red keel section, and the Gamilon ships it fought were mostly green, IIRC. The SDF-1 and the various fighter ships in Macross were rather brightly colored, as I remember. Maybe it's the more recent stuff that tends to monochrome grays?

 

[Admiral2]

Oh, for fuck's sake. You edited out the specific issue I had with it. So, clearly, I think you misunderstand the point I was making, which to recapitulate is that there is a piece here that demands explanation, as it is bordering on the implausible.

It only demands explanation if you assume their losing their memory was something deliberately done by their corporate masters. I don't think that's an assumption that you can make.

Obviously, someone has already been going out in the Raza, terrorizing the galaxy. Right now I don't see any reason to believe that it's not our crew.

It's not just a question of missing memories, but of what information they've been given.

Wrong. It's all about the missing memories. They haven't been "given" any information. They took the information they now have from the ship and colonists using the procedural memories they had left. The important information is what they still don't know...and neither do we. All you're doing is assuming facts not in evidence.

One of the functions of the security android seemed to be to keep them in line. It is illogical that they would have been given the ability to disable the security android by their corporate masters.

Unless the android started out as combat equipment for them to use on missions, to add that last bit of inhumanity to the "Raza" legend. That would explain perfectly why they'd know how to disable it. Any halfway competent soldier knows how to "safe" his own weapon.

Now, if someone else had told Number Two how to disable the android (i.e., programmed it into her memory), that would make sense.

Or, it's one of the procedural memories she retained along with her fighting skills and nobody "programmed" her with anything.

But then again, that would fall into the category of what sort of reveal I think is necessary for the situation to make sense.

And there's your problem. You assume only one scenario fits the available evidence. "Aspirin comes in pills. Aspirin is white. Therefore all pills are white."

The whole awakening seemed like a malfunction, including the missing memories. It seemed possible that even the security android was malfunctioning (to clarify my thinking process, it seems likely when she first awoke that either she was malfunctioning or she was reacting violently to what she initially assumed was a breakout attempt by the six humans), but even if she were malfunctioning I can't imagine that the corporation would want the conscripts (?) disabling her (and they certainly wouldn't want them to be able to disable her in order to breakout). But given how selective what they knew was, yeah, it seemed like it (i.e. what seemed like a malfunction) was designed by an external agent.

The android herself said her memory was wiped, too. That's the only malfunction at work. It's possible she was made to work for the humans and simply no longer had that information in her system, so when she was awakened she went into a default combat mode...and was stopped by someone who knew how to.

The fact that they were convicts doesn't automatically make them mindless slaves. It's entirely possible that third parties were responsible for all the memory losses in an attempt to stop their mission.

 

[hux]

It was horrendously pedestrian.

I think I'll just record the series then towards the end of its run, check in on this thread to see what the general consensus is. Such is my immense laziness.....I mean my immense respect for the sci-fi credentials of the people on this forum.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

They haven't been "given" any information.

Of course they were given information. Either they were trained by their corporate masters (or memories were implanted by them) in how to use the ship, or it came from some other source. Whatever information they were given by their corporate masters, it has to make sense for them to have been given it.

Unless the android started out as combat equipment for them to use on missions, to add that last bit of inhumanity to the "Raza" legend. That would explain perfectly why they'd know how to disable it. Any halfway competent soldier knows how to "safe" his own weapon.

I thought the android was described as a security android. I'll have to wait a couple of days until it gets put on my DVR so I can rewatch it. In any case, no simple piece of "combat equipment" would know so much about all the inner workings of the ship. The android is clearly meant to operate and complete their whole missions autonomously.

The fact that they were convicts doesn't automatically make them mindless slaves.

Where did I use the word "mindless"?

It's entirely possible that third parties were responsible for all the memory losses in an attempt to stop their mission.

Obviously.

You assume only one scenario fits the available evidence. "Aspirin comes in pills. Aspirin is white. Therefore all pills are white."

Thanks. If I need a refresher in basic logic I'll—go somewhere else.

Need I remind everyone that this is all ultimately about whether we enjoy it?!? Sure, I'm making assumptions to fill in the blanks, but so what? Most of us are. Right now there's an incomplete picture.

It doesn't add up yet.

No company is going to put pirates in a starship capable of destroying colonies and send them out to do dirty work without there being some overwhelming threat to keep them on-mission. I'd assumed since I thought I heard the android described as a security android, and since she knows so much about the ship (relatively speaking), that it was the android. But if it's not the android, maybe it's whatever is behind the Special Door....