Star Wars: Episode VII: The Nerd Rage Awakens
- Thread starter cooleddie74
- Start date
It may not have aged Han but it sure changed his personality between the two films. He went from a hard-edged rogue and a scoundrel to wisecracking, joking and mugging to the camera. 
With respect to Ahsoka meeting Luke prior to the OT, given the connections that Anakin had/has with both of them, former master of one and father of the other, their meeting could perhaps send out ripples into the Force that Vader could sense. Yoda should be aware of this possibility, as should Ahsoka herself. Given that Obi-Wan was already close enough to Luke, I'd think it would be enough reason for Ahsoka to steer clear, and keep the risk of drawing Vader's (or the Emperor's) attention to Tatooine to a minimum.
ETA: Of course, it's entirely possible that Ahsoka doesn't even know about Luke or Leia in the first place.
With respect to why Vader doesn't see Luke and Yoda meeting in TESB, Vader senses a presence on the Falcon, who he evidently believes to be Luke, but it's really Leia, who he doesn't know about yet. So, Leia is clouding Vader's vision. As to why the Emperor can't spot Dagobah, well, evidently his vision is limited, and plus he's overconfident.
One possible explanation regarding Dagobah is the cave and how strong it was with the Dark Side. The Dark Side may shadow Yoda's presence or make the Emperor uninterested in that planet, for the time being.
At least, that's one theory I've heard. Can't remember where I read it though.
I've heard that before. I'm pretty sure it came from some kind of official source, but I'm not sure what.
I've always assumed that would be the explanation of how Luke can be the last Jedi, even if Kanan, Ezra, and Ahsoka survive into the OT era. They could always say since the were never officially given the title of Jedi Knight they weren't Jedi. Yoda did tell Luke he would be a Jedi once he defeated his father, so he was kind of given the title in a roundabout way.
In Star Wars RPG (at least, West End Games) terms, characters like Kanan, Ezra, and Ahsoka would probably be closest considered under the template of "fallen Jedi".... or "failed Jedi".
With respect to Ahsoka meeting Luke prior to the OT, given the connections that Anakin had/has with both of them, former master of one and father of the other, their meeting could perhaps send out ripples into the Force that Vader could sense. Yoda should be aware of this possibility, as should Ahsoka herself. Given that Obi-Wan was already close enough to Luke, I'd think it would be enough reason for Ahsoka to steer clear, and keep the risk of drawing Vader's (or the Emperor's) attention to Tatooine to a minimum.
ETA: Of course, it's entirely possible that Ahsoka doesn't even know about Luke or Leia in the first place.
With respect to why Vader doesn't see Luke and Yoda meeting in TESB, Vader senses a presence on the Falcon, who he evidently believes to be Luke, but it's really Leia, who he doesn't know about yet. So, Leia is clouding Vader's vision. As to why the Emperor can't spot Dagobah, well, evidently his vision is limited, and plus he's overconfident.
One possible explanation regarding Dagobah is the cave and how strong it was with the Dark Side. The Dark Side may shadow Yoda's presence or make the Emperor uninterested in that planet, for the time being.
At least, that's one theory I've heard. Can't remember where I read it though.
Nice.
At least one toy or collectible package released in the late '90s explained that Dagobah was once occupied by practicioners of the Dark Side (at some point in history before the Clone Wars happened) who imbued the swamp planet with dark energy that also blocked those on the outside from sensing the presence of Force users who were on the planet. Yoda used that to his advantage after going into hiding and was thus able to prevent the Empire from detecting that he was still alive and on Dagobah.
A pervasive presence of dark energy on the planet would also explain the cave and the apparition of Darth Vader that Luke sees in The Empire Strikes Back.
A pervasive presence of dark energy on the planet would also explain the cave and the apparition of Darth Vader that Luke sees in The Empire Strikes Back.
I think that was Jedi who abandoned the order or abdicated their title but weren't Sith?
The Lost Twenty. The 20 Jedi who had officially abandoned the Order by the time of Attack of the Clones and who had been honored with busts displayed inside the Jedi Archives. Count Dooku was one of the Lost Twenty.
Although until the Battle of the Geonosis and the Clone Wars the Jedi didn't know Dooku had converted to the Dark Side and was no longer a good guy, just a political idealist who retained his best qualities and was fighting for the principles he strongly believed in. They displayed his bust in the Jedi Archives as one of the revered and fondly-remembered Lost Twenty up until then, thinking he'd simply had strong political disagreements with the Jedi and the Republic.
RE: Dagobah and the cave. This is more of less covered in the Clone Wars: Lost Mission episodes. Qui Gon says that Dagobah is one of the purest places in the galaxy so Yoda hiding there makes perfect sense. The chances of Sidious ever sensing him in that place is akin to trying see a single distant candle flame with the sun glaring behind it.
As for the cave itself, Qui Gon specifically says that the strength of the dark side within the cave is a reflection of how strong influence of the dark side has become in the galaxy.
As for the "last of the Jedi" line. I think it's a fair assumption that he's in earnest since one of the very next things he says is "pass on what you have learned." If there was anyone else still around with the knowledge and training of a Jedi, it's a fair bet Yoda would have said so rather than leave the whole thing on Luke's shoulders.
Yeah, Ahsoka isn't *technically* a Jedi and she probably doesn't consider herself one, but it's really a matter of semantics. She was raised in the temple, was apprenticed to a Knight and passed her trials. Her training was complete.
Likewise Kanan wasn't even close to being a Knight; had barely been out of the temple when the order came crashing down around his ears and spent most of the next decade and a half straying very far from the path. But again, semantics.
Ezra for his part has about as much claim on being a Jedi as Luke does. Even more so considering he's already spent considerably more time with Kanan that Luke did with Kenobi and Yoda combined.
P.S. As for the suggestion that Ahsoka and Luke ever crossed paths: I rather prefer the notion that Ahsoka has been quietly watching over Leia this whole time as Kenobi had with Luke. Who knows, it may have been her idea to go get Kenobi out of retirement?
As for the cave itself, Qui Gon specifically says that the strength of the dark side within the cave is a reflection of how strong influence of the dark side has become in the galaxy.
As for the "last of the Jedi" line. I think it's a fair assumption that he's in earnest since one of the very next things he says is "pass on what you have learned." If there was anyone else still around with the knowledge and training of a Jedi, it's a fair bet Yoda would have said so rather than leave the whole thing on Luke's shoulders.
Yeah, Ahsoka isn't *technically* a Jedi and she probably doesn't consider herself one, but it's really a matter of semantics. She was raised in the temple, was apprenticed to a Knight and passed her trials. Her training was complete.
Likewise Kanan wasn't even close to being a Knight; had barely been out of the temple when the order came crashing down around his ears and spent most of the next decade and a half straying very far from the path. But again, semantics.
Ezra for his part has about as much claim on being a Jedi as Luke does. Even more so considering he's already spent considerably more time with Kanan that Luke did with Kenobi and Yoda combined.
P.S. As for the suggestion that Ahsoka and Luke ever crossed paths: I rather prefer the notion that Ahsoka has been quietly watching over Leia this whole time as Kenobi had with Luke. Who knows, it may have been her idea to go get Kenobi out of retirement?
And I doubt Vader or The Emperor would care much if at all that Ahsoka abandoned the Jedi Order or that Kanan was never a full-fledged Jedi Knight. To the Sith Lords they're both adherents of the Jedi philosophy and strong Force users who are potentially dangerous. Enemies of the Sith and of the Galactic Empire.
Vader could, of course, fail to kill one or both of them or have a momentary flash of mercy that allows them to escape but I can't imagine that he wouldn't target them for destruction if for no other reason than what they used to be and continue to represent.
Vader could, of course, fail to kill one or both of them or have a momentary flash of mercy that allows them to escape but I can't imagine that he wouldn't target them for destruction if for no other reason than what they used to be and continue to represent.
Aye, definitely not Sith....and I do think they kinda included Obi-Wan Kenobi among that template.
Yes....."failed Jedi" was the template I was referring to. Took me a moment to recollect, as I had not seen the WEG SW RPG for many years.
Ye Olde WEG Force sensitive types: (Second Edition since that was the closest one at hand).
Alien Force Student: A alien that used the Force but is not a Jedi. Maybe a newer species the Empire has little contact with. May have heard stories about the Old Republic's Jedi from scouts and the like.
Failed Jedi: Basically either a Padawan that failed the trails, or someone that never got a master (the background of some of the Inquisators fits this mold). People that never got a master, thus never became padawan, and went instead to the one of the various Jedi Services, rather than be trained to become a Knight. (Kanan and perhaps Ashoka would fall under this template. Mostly Kanan)
Young Jedi: Someone that is learning to become a Jedi. Likely from a Failed Jedi, as Knights and Padawan are rare. (Ezra would fall under this template, as would Luke to some degree, though he is more a Bush Pilot.)
Also a Quixotic Jedi: Crazy person who thinks their are a Jedi, and does have the ability to tap into the Force. Does not have real training, just books and an over active imagination.
Alien Force Student: A alien that used the Force but is not a Jedi. Maybe a newer species the Empire has little contact with. May have heard stories about the Old Republic's Jedi from scouts and the like.
Failed Jedi: Basically either a Padawan that failed the trails, or someone that never got a master (the background of some of the Inquisators fits this mold). People that never got a master, thus never became padawan, and went instead to the one of the various Jedi Services, rather than be trained to become a Knight. (Kanan and perhaps Ashoka would fall under this template. Mostly Kanan)
Young Jedi: Someone that is learning to become a Jedi. Likely from a Failed Jedi, as Knights and Padawan are rare. (Ezra would fall under this template, as would Luke to some degree, though he is more a Bush Pilot.)
Also a Quixotic Jedi: Crazy person who thinks their are a Jedi, and does have the ability to tap into the Force. Does not have real training, just books and an over active imagination.
Nice rundown there. (Oh, how I miss the WEG SW games
)I think Obi-Wan could fall into the failed Jedi category, moreso for ideology, rather than the parameters that establish the archetype.
Obi-Wan feels that he has failed, much as Yoda felt it.
1. He feels he failed Anakin.
2. He could not save his fellow Jedi.
3. He, like Yoda, lives in a self-imposed exile, as much for their protection as for the protection of the twins.
4. He has to lie to Luke, basically, to get Luke started down the path of the Light side...let alone have Luke help him with what would be his final mission.
5. All he could really do, until that fateful day in the Jundland Wastes, was watch Luke from afar, as Yoda did via visions from Dagobah.
This is just my take....not any real basis in canon.
