Regenerations...

[Ithekro]

Well the Time Lords gave him the new set of regenerations for the 12th Doctor and gave him his appearance for the 3rd Doctor. Both of them older looking gents. They were willing to let the Doctor pick his appearance before exile, but he's a picky sort. It is possible they picked his new look. For what reason is yet to be told.

 

[Captain Crow]

Also we have Rassilon, who came back in "End Of Time", so there's some kind of time lord "ressurection" thing at play, even beyond the regenerations.

He wasn't dead. Two tells the Brig in "The Five Doctors" that the Time Lords gave him the immortality he wanted by chucking him into suspended animation. So if he was THE Rassilon then all they did was pull him out of stasis. Of course the President in "The End of Time" could have been just some power mad egomaniac and the Doctor calling him "Rassilon" was meant as a put down.

Sometimes the Doctor doesn't know if the regeneration will happen-again with the Fifth Doctor in "Caves of Androzani", he states "I might regenerate, I don't know. Feels different this time", although his hallucinary companions urge him to continue (although the Master doesn't).

Keep in mind that story was written by Robert Holmes, who also wrote "Brain of Morbius" and "The Deadly Assassin". So there's a possibility he was counting the eight "Morbius" Doctors and was treating Davison's Doctor as the Thirteenth rather than the Fifth.

An onscreen reason for the Doctor being unsure of what was happening could be because he'd been suppressing his regeneration since just before the end of part 3 and feared he had held it back for too long and was actually dying.

 

[Sketcher]

Do we eve visually see the Fifth Doctor fighting against regenerating? It's been a while since I've seen Caves.

 

[Captain Crow]

Do we eve visually see the Fifth Doctor fighting against regenerating? It's been a while since I've seen Caves.

Its a rather quick moment near the end of part 3.

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_k5xxZb02c[/yt]
​

 

[DWF]

I don't think he was fighting off the regeneration, he was trying to stay alive, he even staggers while running over the sand dunes, you can tell he's clearly dying all along the way.

 

[Captain Crow]

That little scene is showing him loosing his concentration at fending off the regeneration for a moment. That's why we faintly see the regeneration effect for a few seconds.

Basically, he nods off for a second. Loses his concentration for a moment. The regeneration starts to take hold. He snaps back and regains his concentration.

 

[Iamnotspock]

The Doctor seems to not be a master of regeneration, not knowing all the ins and outs of it at all really. He doesn't seem to be able to do much with it himself while Romana can clearing pick and choose as she like when ever. The Master even seem to be able to someone effect his change. But the Doctor? Lottery isn't it?

It was pretty much said so during the classic run.

"That's the trouble with regeneration--you never quite know what you're going to get."
--The Fifth Doctor (shortly after his regeneration from the Fourth Doctor)

And of course during the current run, the Doctor has tried a couple of times to regenerate into a ginger, but without any success.

But if we go with what the Twelfth Doctor said after his regeneration, not only did he not have any control over what he was going to look like, possibly somebody else did this time...

From "Deep Breath"
DOCTOR (to stranger in street) Um, have you seen this face before? (points to his own face)
STRANGER: No.
DOCTOR: Are you sure?
STRANGER: Sir, I have never seen that face.
DOCTOR: It's funny, because I'm sure that I have. You know, I never know where the faces come from. They just pop up. Zap! Faces like this one. Come on, look at it, have a look. Come on. Look. look, look. Look, it's covered in lines...but I didn't do the frowning. Who frowned me this face?

Possibly, although of course that line was a nod to Peter Capaldi's previous two roles in the Whoniverse, or at least the one the Doctor met. I'm doubtful it'll ever be followed up on, but you never know.

 

[C.E. Evans]

The Doctor seems to not be a master of regeneration, not knowing all the ins and outs of it at all really. He doesn't seem to be able to do much with it himself while Romana can clearing pick and choose as she like when ever. The Master even seem to be able to someone effect his change. But the Doctor? Lottery isn't it?

It was pretty much said so during the classic run.

"That's the trouble with regeneration--you never quite know what you're going to get."
--The Fifth Doctor (shortly after his regeneration from the Fourth Doctor)

And of course during the current run, the Doctor has tried a couple of times to regenerate into a ginger, but without any success.

But if we go with what the Twelfth Doctor said after his regeneration, not only did he not have any control over what he was going to look like, possibly somebody else did this time...

From "Deep Breath"
DOCTOR (to stranger in street) Um, have you seen this face before? (points to his own face)
STRANGER: No.
DOCTOR: Are you sure?
STRANGER: Sir, I have never seen that face.
DOCTOR: It's funny, because I'm sure that I have. You know, I never know where the faces come from. They just pop up. Zap! Faces like this one. Come on, look at it, have a look. Come on. Look. look, look. Look, it's covered in lines...but I didn't do the frowning. Who frowned me this face?

Possibly, although of course that line was a nod to Peter Capaldi's previous two roles in the Whoniverse, or at least the one the Doctor met. I'm doubtful it'll ever be followed up on, but you never know.

I think it will be something that will be followed up, but at a later date (at least before Moffat or Capaldi leaves, IMO).

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

I agree, but this is Doctor Who here. They're never going to answer it with something absolute - someone will not literally spout "sometimes a Gallifreyan, upon regeneration, will subconsciously assume the physical appearance of someone they have met in the past" or somesuch. If anything, they'll do it in a throwaway line, and if Moffat has anything to say about it he'll throw in an indirect reference to why the Doctor once looked exactly like Maxil while they're at it.

I'm already comfy enough with Eleven's line "no, I can be anything" in SJA - the same one where he said he can regenerate 507 times. Both can be true, or neither, or somewhat, and be filled in by the fandom. It's just the nature of this show to offer vague, or misleading, or contradictory "science" amidst the science-fictioney banter in any given episode.

Mark

 

[Iamnotspock]

I agree, but this is Doctor Who here. They're never going to answer it with something absolute - someone will not literally spout "sometimes a Gallifreyan, upon regeneration, will subconsciously assume the physical appearance of someone they have met in the past" or somesuch. If anything, they'll do it in a throwaway line, and if Moffat has anything to say about it he'll throw in an indirect reference to why the Doctor once looked exactly like Maxil while they're at it.

We already know that some Time Lords can consciously choose their new appearance - Romana chose to assume the form of Princess Astra and the Sisterhood of Karn were capable of controlling regeneration. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that they'll slip in a reference to a new body sometimes being chosen subconsciously; it's not even a leap.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

^There was also a Big Finish audio that said that the reason why the 2nd Romana looked like Princess Astra was because, when the Key to Time was split up again, the essence of the 6th piece was transferred from Princess Astra to Romana.

Lake Silencio shows nothing of regeneration. It's a time travelling robot from the future filled with miniature people. It's a trick. A light show.

Didn't that event happen two different ways because River rewrote the fixed point? So basically, the "real" Doctor did die like he was supposed to but then there was the Teselecta Doctor.

Lake Silencio is a really weird predestination paradox. It's made even weirder by the fact that the only reason why the Doctor or River even went there in the first place is because they were told that this was where & when this was going to happen and had already happened. (As a result, the Silence should have already known that it wasn't going to work because it had already happened and yet the Doctor had already made it to Trenzalore anyway.)

But, even then, I suppose it's possible that the Doctor might have had enough energy left to attempt a regeneration, probably just not enough for a successful one. (To see what an unsuccessful regeneration looks like, SEE crispy Master in "The Deadly Assassin" or the War Chief in the New Adventures novel "Timewyrm: Exodus.") I figure, Time Lords normally have exactly enough energy to manage 12 regenerations. But since Tennant's regeneration in "Journey's End" was not a full one, he still had some energy left over. And possibly a little extra leftover that he got from River in "Let's Kill Hitler." Later on, he resigned himself to the fact that, while he had some energy left, it wasn't enough to be able to do much with. Which is why he was so cavalier about using some energy to heal River's broken wrist in "The Angels Take Manhattan."

Although, if the Doctor truly thought that he was on his last life, that doesn't quite explain the Curator from "The Day of the Doctor."

It certainly seems like regeneration requires some degree of effort and will. Perhaps the reason why the 10th Doctor died in the AU in "Turn Left" was because he was so depressed about losing Rose that he didn't even want to bother any more.

Possibly, although of course that line was a nod to Peter Capaldi's previous two roles in the Whoniverse, or at least the one the Doctor met. I'm doubtful it'll ever be followed up on, but you never know.

I was actually expecting them to make a reference to that in "In the Forest of the Night." After all, the main lesson that the Doctor seemed to take from "The Fires of Pompeii" was, "If you can't save everyone, at least save everyone that you can." I thought that that was a lesson that would be more clearly echoed when the Doctor tried to save the children from the solar flare in "In the Forest of the Night."

 

[DWF]

^There was also a Big Finish audio that said that the reason why the 2nd Romana looked like Princess Astra was because, when the Key to Time was split up again, the essence of the 6th piece was transferred from Princess Astra to Romana.

Lake Silencio shows nothing of regeneration. It's a time travelling robot from the future filled with miniature people. It's a trick. A light show.

Didn't that event happen two different ways because River rewrote the fixed point? So basically, the "real" Doctor did die like he was supposed to but then there was the Teselecta Doctor.

Lake Silencio is a really weird predestination paradox. It's made even weirder by the fact that the only reason why the Doctor or River even went there in the first place is because they were told that this was where & when this was going to happen and had already happened. (As a result, the Silence should have already known that it wasn't going to work because it had already happened and yet the Doctor had already made it to Trenzalore anyway.)

But, even then, I suppose it's possible that the Doctor might have had enough energy left to attempt a regeneration, probably just not enough for a successful one. (To see what an unsuccessful regeneration looks like, SEE crispy Master in "The Deadly Assassin" or the War Chief in the New Adventures novel "Timewyrm: Exodus.") I figure, Time Lords normally have exactly enough energy to manage 12 regenerations. But since Tennant's regeneration in "Journey's End" was not a full one, he still had some energy left over. And possibly a little extra leftover that he got from River in "Let's Kill Hitler." Later on, he resigned himself to the fact that, while he had some energy left, it wasn't enough to be able to do much with. Which is why he was so cavalier about using some energy to heal River's broken wrist in "The Angels Take Manhattan."

The official explaination for the Journey's End regeneration is that he regenerated into himself. And there's no reason to think the Master's appearance in The Deadly Assassin was the result of a failed regeration. The only failed regeneration that we actually saw on the show was Azmael's attempt to regenerate in The Twin Dilemna.

 

[Volpone]

Huh. Halfway through "Arc of Infinity," and wondering if the d-baggery of Commander Maxil had such an effect on the Doc that it affected his subsequent regeneration appearance.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

We already know that some Time Lords can consciously choose their new appearance - Romana chose to assume the form of Princess Astra and the Sisterhood of Karn were capable of controlling regeneration. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that they'll slip in a reference to a new body sometimes being chosen subconsciously; it's not even a leap.

That's fair and even reasonable. The Doctor has said on several occasions, and both the Time Lords and the Sisterhood of Karn have shown, that the change for *him* is basically random though it can be influenced; it's a lottery, you never quite know what you're going to get, etc.

Some have concluded that female, or perhaps newer generations of Time Lords aren't so encumbered, especially given how the Doctor wasn't surprised at all when Romana identified herself as such (nor as she continued "trying on" other bodies). Still, there's plenty of leeway in any interpretation here.

Mark

 

[diankra]

The implication has often been that normally a Time Lord can control their change, but that the Doctor c
1an't because he tends to do it in a panic, and barely scraped through his Academy exams (Iinvluding egen control?).

 

[C.E. Evans]

I agree, but this is Doctor Who here. They're never going to answer it with something absolute - someone will not literally spout "sometimes a Gallifreyan, upon regeneration, will subconsciously assume the physical appearance of someone they have met in the past" or somesuch. If anything, they'll do it in a throwaway line, and if Moffat has anything to say about it he'll throw in an indirect reference to why the Doctor once looked exactly like Maxil while they're at it.

I'm thinking that it'll be more than a throwaway line and rather the basis for an actual episode, possibly Capaldi's final if Moffat is still around by then (if he isn't, then the subject probably won't ever be addressed at all).

 

[Volpone]

And of course part of it is the fact that it isn't real, it is a TV program. Time Lords would likely always regenerate into a young body--say 18-20 or so--to get the most life out of it. But since the reason for regenerations is that an actor wants to move on or is let go for one reason or another, they have to cast people of different ages. Otherwise all the Doctors would be young except for Hartnell, who'd had adventures before the series started.

Or if they had one regenerate offscreen and have a ton of offscreen adventures before being in the show--kind of like the War Doctor.

 

[Iamnotspock]

And of course part of it is the fact that it isn't real, it is a TV program. Time Lords would likely always regenerate into a young body--say 18-20 or so--to get the most life out of it. But since the reason for regenerations is that an actor wants to move on or is let go for one reason or another, they have to cast people of different ages. Otherwise all the Doctors would be young except for Hartnell, who'd had adventures before the series started.

This is why I think Matt Smith was in many ways the perfect Doctor; a young actor who could sell being 900 years old.

 

[DWF]

And of course part of it is the fact that it isn't real, it is a TV program. Time Lords would likely always regenerate into a young body--say 18-20 or so--to get the most life out of it. But since the reason for regenerations is that an actor wants to move on or is let go for one reason or another, they have to cast people of different ages. Otherwise all the Doctors would be young except for Hartnell, who'd had adventures before the series started.

This is why I think Matt Smith was in many ways the perfect Doctor; a young actor who could sell being 900 years old.

He couldn't sell it to me, Peter Davsion IMO did a much better job of selling an old man in a young man's body. And there's really no reason for a Time Lod to only select younger bodies, young is really a rather term when an incarnation can last centuries. A Time Lord can have an older looking body and still be very active and healthy by human standards.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I think both Davison and Smith did well as the old-man-in-a-young-man's-body. They just went about it a very, very different way.

Davison was an English grandpa, who was awfully nice even when he was scolding someone, while Smith was clearly the eccentric old Professor who liked to show off to his grandkids. And IMO, they did an amazing job, both of 'em.

What is a shame, is that their respective eras lacked a consistent TV run (though Davison's early BF and Peri-Erimem stuff sure helps), thus why they're sadly not on my top five Doctors.