Things they changed after the first episode
- Thread starter JirinPanthosa
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What's the damn problem with the damn miniskirts?
3 centuries ago, people wore this:
So what the hell is the problem with the idea that, in the 24th fucking century, men will wear skirts? Perhaps a little imagination on future's fashion?
Yeah, I never had a problem with the uni-Skants.
As JarodRussell points out, it was little more than a couple centuries ago when people of both genders considered large flowery clothes, powered wigs, and make-up to be high fashion. The idea that men "don't do that sort of thing" is a relatively recent cultural thing (and shouldn't necessarily be the case anyway).
Men wearing the skant in Star Trek comes down to the answer Roddenberry gave about baldness in the future: people in the 24th century wouldn't care what other people look like, they'd wear what they feel like wearing.
(Having said that, I think they should've had the regulars wear them from time to time, just to help sell the idea a little better. The good intentions behind the idea are kind of sabotaged by us only ever seeing the skants on background extras, Deanna Troi and Tasha Yar in "Farpoint" notwithstanding. To really sell it we needed to see Riker, Geordi, Data or Picard wearing it too.)
As JarodRussell points out, it was little more than a couple centuries ago when people of both genders considered large flowery clothes, powered wigs, and make-up to be high fashion. The idea that men "don't do that sort of thing" is a relatively recent cultural thing (and shouldn't necessarily be the case anyway).
Men wearing the skant in Star Trek comes down to the answer Roddenberry gave about baldness in the future: people in the 24th century wouldn't care what other people look like, they'd wear what they feel like wearing.
(Having said that, I think they should've had the regulars wear them from time to time, just to help sell the idea a little better. The good intentions behind the idea are kind of sabotaged by us only ever seeing the skants on background extras, Deanna Troi and Tasha Yar in "Farpoint" notwithstanding. To really sell it we needed to see Riker, Geordi, Data or Picard wearing it too.)
Absolutely right. It's only reasonable that fashions in future centuries would seem bizarre by our standards, just as the fashions of past centuries do. It's also ethnocentric to assume that skirtlike garments aren't "masculine." There are kilts, saris, togas, and various other draped or loose garments that have been worn by men in many cultures over the millennia.
It also wasn't that long ago that it would've been seen as cross-dressing for a woman to wear pants. Why have we overcome that belief but still feel it's humiliating for a man to wear a skirt? It's a sexist double standard implying that maleness is intrinsically superior to femaleness. Roddenberry and Theiss were going for a more egalitarian approach to unisex costuming, one where both pants and skirts (or hybrid garments like the skant, short for "skirt-pant") are equally gender-neutral. And really, there's no logical reason why that shouldn't be a valid fashion.
Good point.
Really, I wish more SF shows would embrace the weirdness of possible future fashions. I mean, we see all these historical dramas with all these ornate costumes that are bizarre by modern standards. I just watched Netflix's Marco Polo, and there are these strikingly different Mongol hairstyles with the top and back of the head largely shaved, and the Song Dynasty nobles wearing these incredibly weird hats with things sticking out two feet on either side, and all that exotic stuff going on. Yet shows set in the future or in alien societies are afraid to make the clothes look significantly different from what we wear today. That's such a missed opportunity.
Granted, in the past, when SF shows did try to predict future fashions, the results tended to be very dated. Sylvia Anderson's fashions for her husband Gerry's UFO spring to mind. But at least they tried. At least they used some imagination and worldbuilding. One of the better examples was Doctor Who's "The Robots of Death," which did a fantastic job of costume, makeup, and set design/worldbuilding for a decadent and prosperous future society.
Data is actually the android equivalent to a Cat Lady. He tends to a large number of cats on the ship and has named them all Spot. It might be a glitch in his neural net, but LaForge thinks it might be contected to something they need Data to do all the time, so they leave well enough alone.
In the conference in DS9 "Nagus", they lament that they have soiled their reputation in Alpha, and need to expand to Gamma for that reason already. It may well be that the soiling is a recent thing, the Ferengi having moved from faceless piracy, to smiling-face salesmanship, to getting their faces slapped, within the past decade only...
Sure, the soiling might be old news, and only the Gamma opportunity prompts bringing up the issue in this late conference. But we do see hints of the Ferengi modus operandi: nameless and faceless piracy is how they start with the Earthlings, in the ENT era - and that's what they still practice in "The Last Outpost"! They probably only go for the less profitable version (the one where they actually have to give up stuff in order to get the money) only when they run out of other options...
The character never struck me as a "guard" in "Lonely Among Us". He's just a random bloke who stumbles upon a delegate who claims to be looking for Picard.
Since both delegations were supposed to travel without interacting, it would make sense to accommodate them next to "private" transporter facilities for arrival or at least departure (Picard might not have seen the sense with the beam-up yet, but he would, oh, he would), so O'Brien might well have been the Selay transporter operator there.
Deep down, it's not just sexist but sexually functional: skirts are access-providing clothing, pants are access-limiting clothing. It's one giant leap to accept that women might get to limit access, but the further leap that men might not is still in the very distant future...
Naturally, from that "feminist" point of view, skants are a best-of-both-worlds fashion choice there, decidedly anti-access yet also provocatively revealing. Up yours, males! But that doesn't much help the males who struggle to make that second leap.
Timo Saloniemi
As to the skirts/skants on men discussion: I didn´t like them as uniform style. I never claimed that they weren´t masculine. And I actually like kilts, not only Scotty wearing them.
Kilts are part of Scotlands culture (and if I´m not mistaken also worn by Irish men). Wearing kilts comes naturally to (most) Scots. Understandably not every man is excited about wearing kilts or skirt-like outfits. I would say: If you don´t love it, leave it.
Kilts are part of Scotlands culture (and if I´m not mistaken also worn by Irish men). Wearing kilts comes naturally to (most) Scots. Understandably not every man is excited about wearing kilts or skirt-like outfits. I would say: If you don´t love it, leave it.
What, you don't think Worf could pull it off?
I'm sure he could've done if he was wearing a skant, but I wouldn't want to be the guy who cleans it up afterwards.
(Forgive me for lowering the tone.
)
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