Redesign the Ferengi

[Cromwell]

So, imagine, that the Ferengi are supposed to work as villainous race on par with the Romulans, Klingons and Cardassians.

Are they beyond saving?

What could be re-worked or redesigned to make them effective? Would their appearance have to change? If so, how much?

Or is it just the way that they're presented which needs to be overhauled?

Or, because I'm sure someone holds this opinion, were they fine as they were portrayed at the outset? Should the writers have stuck with the Ferengi as villains?

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Sure they can be redesigned to make them effective. DS9 did it.

If they wanted to be effective villains they would have needed to be a little more clever. Show them doing what real unscrupulous capitalists do. Monopolize water sources, that local populations need to survive, dump chemicals in rivers, things like that.

 

[Cromwell]

Sure they can be redesigned to make them effective. DS9 did it.

Yeah, I should have been more clear. I love them in "Deep Space Nine" but they're not villains, as such, and they're certainly not a threat.

If they wanted to be effective villains they would have needed to be a little more clever. Show them doing what real unscrupulous capitalists do. Monopolize water sources, that local populations need to survive, dump chemicals in rivers, things like that.

Do you think their appearance would've been fine the way it was, if they'd go down this route? Maybe they could show their cunning by obscuring their activities and using the Prime Directive as a shield.

If that way, they'd be a threat unique to the Federation. I doubt the Romulans would care about non-interference if a primitive planet in their sphere of influence was being bullied by the Ferengi; they'd just step in and lay water to the little orange goblins!

 

[Orphalesion]

Now that's an interesting topic.

I don't know if my "inner romantic" is too productive here again, but personally if I had designed the Ferengi I would have made them a sort of glamorous space mafia.
Very physically beautiful, charming, tasteful in appearance and affable and welcoming in their manners....yet with a rotten core.
They'd be the sort to distract you with their opluence and (seeming) generosity while behind your back they swindle you out of your planet and making you thank them for doing it.
Upon closer inspection they'd actually be an utterly repulsive culture/organisation involved in slave trade, arms smuggling, causing wars between civilisations just so that they could sell them weapons, drug trafficking etc.

I don't really have a distinct appearance for them in mind right now, but I'm thinking something almost Tolkien elf-like; tall, slender, shimmering.
Their clothing could be based somewhat on the roaring twenties in the use of slinky dresses and large pompous jewellery. Maybe somehow crossed with ancient Greece/Rome to get a sort of "Art Deco" effect that could extend to their ships as well which would be flying pleasure palaces.

Of course I'm rather glad that the Ferengi were the flop they turned out to be, otherwise we wouldn't have gotten Quark!

 

[Cromwell]

Now that's an interesting topic.

I don't know if my "inner romantic" is too productive here again, but personally if I had designed the Ferengi I would have made them a sort of glamorous space mafia.
Very physically beautiful, charming, tasteful in appearance and affable and welcoming in their manners....yet with a rotten core.

That could be interesting, I was struck with an image of an evil version of the Iotians.

They'd be the sort to distract you with their opluence and (seeming) generosity while behind your back they swindle you out of your planet and making you thank them for doing it.
Upon closer inspection they'd actually be an utterly repulsive culture/organisation involved in slave trade, arms smuggling, causing wars between civilisations just so that they could sell them weapons, drug trafficking etc.

Perhaps Ardra could've been one of them.

I don't really have a distinct appearance for them in mind right now, but I'm thinking something almost Tolkien elf-like; tall, slender, shimmering.
Their clothing could be based somewhat on the roaring twenties in the use of slinky dresses and large pompous jewellery. Made somehow crossed with the styles of ancient Babylon.

Yeah, I'm really quite fond of that idea. Glamorous minxes with a violent streak.

 

[Nerys Myk]

 

[EnriqueH]

Now that's an interesting topic.

I don't know if my "inner romantic" is too productive here again, but personally if I had designed the Ferengi I would have made them a sort of glamorous space mafia.
Very physically beautiful, charming, tasteful in appearance and affable and welcoming in their manners....yet with a rotten core.
They'd be the sort to distract you with their opluence and (seeming) generosity while behind your back they swindle you out of your planet and making you thank them for doing it.
Upon closer inspection they'd actually be an utterly repulsive culture/organisation involved in slave trade, arms smuggling, causing wars between civilisations just so that they could sell them weapons, drug trafficking etc.

I don't really have a distinct appearance for them in mind right now, but I'm thinking something almost Tolkien elf-like; tall, slender, shimmering.
Their clothing could be based somewhat on the roaring twenties in the use of slinky dresses and large pompous jewellery. Maybe somehow crossed with ancient Greece/Rome to get a sort of "Art Deco" effect that could extend to their ships as well which would be flying pleasure palaces.

Of course I'm rather glad that the Ferengi were the flop they turned out to be, otherwise we wouldn't have gotten Quark!

Excellent post.

I'm satisfied with the way the Ferengi turned out by late TNG and DS9. Not EVERY race has to be a threat, per se.

But if it had to be re-done, I like the space mafia idea.

 

[Orphalesion]

That could be interesting, I was struck with an image of an evil version of the Iotians.

Well, a bit less obvious than the Iotians, wouldn't want them prance around the galaxy with tommy guns and fedoras
I reckon a space mob would have made better/more interesting villains than alien versions of wallstreet brokers(which was their concept IRL wasn't it?). Though I do wonder if they would have fit into the very idealized, very sanitized world of First Season TNG.

Perhaps Ardra could've been one of them.

Actually, yes! "Devil's Due" could have served as a good introduction episode of this version of the Ferengi and Ardra would have made a fine Ferengi Crimelady.

Yeah, I'm really quite fond of that idea. Glamorous minxes with a violent streak.

Exactly. I was really thinking of those Art Nouveau paintings of Greek Gods/Goddesses that were so popular back then and the very picturesque, romantic descriptions F. Scott Fitzgerald uses in the Great Gatsby. All in this stark contrast to the wastefulness and (ins ome ways) repulsiveness of the society they were produced by/described. A beautful exterior with ugly insides.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I think that even the greedy capitalist gnome Ferengi that we got could have been more effective adversaries onscreen if they'd been portrayed a little more like the Dominion. They could have races from other worlds who were subservient to them, including a race of more physically intimidating types who might have been commonly used as their enforcers.

This was an example of Trek falling into the "homogenous alien race" trap...we were told that the Klingons and Romulans had empires, but we saw precious little in the way of other races who were subject to them. If they'd broken this habit early on TNG, they might have fleshed out the Ferengi much more effectively as the leaders of an anti-Federation.

 

[Ithekro]

The problem that would arise if the Ferengi were used as intended would be they would be the ultimate impression of basically the Capitalist America is Space. Every thing the Ferengi do would be a reflection of ourselves while the Federation via the Enterprise's crew would be out idealized future selves that managed to overcome out darker nature...except when the writers forget they are righting for an ideal future and write for a realistic future. Then the concept of the Ferengi as the new villian starts to fall apart. Who wants to watch ourselves as the bad guys?

The problem with the first appearance is that the Ferengi were played a little too silly (perhaps unintendedly silly). And the stated technology and goals that early on seemed redundant. Why would they care about material good that the replicator can make by the bucket? The later introduced liquid latimum that was seeming difficult to replicate, made it work better. The gold? a shiny more or less worthless means of making transactions easier by suspending the liquid in it at a fixed amount.

The appearance...they got called "butthead" very quickly. Their means got them called Space Jews by some people.

 

[FormerLurker]

Watching the Ferengi in action, so to speak, I've come to the inescapable conclusion that they weren't money-grubbing 'capitalists', but were rather hoarding packrats. Their rules are for Acquisition, the accumulation of stuff, not the consolidation of wealth. What they need money for is so they can buy stuff. Quark's cousin bought a moon, not to have a moon, but to have somewhere to put his stuff.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

If the Ferengi were going to be serious villains I would have made them less Space Mafia and more Koch Brothers.

 

[Taelon]

Have them be more like ruthless Corporate CEOs and less like chattering monkeys.

 

[T'Girl]

I don't really have a distinct appearance for them in mind right now, but I'm thinking something almost Tolkien elf-like; tall, slender, shimmering.

I'm loving this idea, maybe dress them like the cover of Glamour and GQ magazine, act like members of the royal family, very urban and correct. But make them total convinced of their position and the inferiority of others. Sort of like the Vulcans, times ten.

I've thought for some time it would be interesting to have "the villains" not be a species or a empire, but instead a multi-species corporate entity.

If the Ferengi were going to be serious villains I would have made them less Space Mafia and more Koch Brothers.

But that would make them the good guys.

 

[Lance]

I actually think the extent to which the Ferengi have become downplayed over the years by the fandom in terms of their villainy is ridiculous.

One thing TNG was consistent about over seven seasons was the Ferengi being credible enemies of the Federation. Only on DS9 did they turn into them into this 'caricature culture', where everything had a profit motive and the idea of a Ferengi ever being any good as a soldier was laughed at (although ultimately proven).

Witness:
* The Last Outpost (season one): Okay, so first impressions aren't good. But these Ferengi make a credible go at fighting the away team in hand-to-hand combat. They've got some kind of energy weapons that can stun (and maybe even kill), they're devious manipulators (in theory), and they all have tattoos.
* The Battle (season one): Daimon Bok is an evil, devious, manipulative bastard out for revenge. A Ferengi battleship previously entered battle with the USS Stargazer and managed to take them on strongly enough that, although they didn't win the battle, the Starfleet ship was beyond repair and had to be abandoned.
* Peak Performance (season two): A Ferengi battleship interrupts the war games exercise, and everybody on both the Enterprise and the Hathaway treat it like it's a serious threat.
* Menage A Troi (season three): The Ferengi manage to kidnap one of the Federation's ambassadors right from her own home planet, as well as two trained Starfleet officers.
* Rascals (season six): A Ferengi boarding party manages to take over the Federation flagship with only a couple stolen birds-of-prey.

I could go on. But it's fair to say that, as far as TNG was concerned, they never completely forgot the idea that the Ferengi were supposed to be dangerous, nor did they ever stop making them a credible threat time and time again. As I say, only on DS9 was their culture... "explored in more detail", yes, but they got dumbed down also.

 

[Orphalesion]

I don't really have a distinct appearance for them in mind right now, but I'm thinking something almost Tolkien elf-like; tall, slender, shimmering.

I'm loving this idea, maybe dress them like the cover of Glamour and GQ magazine, act like members of the royal family, very urban and correct. But make them total convinced of their position and the inferiority of others. Sort of like the Vulcans, times ten.

Thanks, yeah that was pretty much what I was thinking. If it comes down to it self-presentation is a huge part of capitalism, you want to have a public image that your customers find appealing, not repulsive. You don't get far in that system by holding up a sign saying "I am the villain!" you have to be subtle about it and subtle the Ferengi weren't.

 

[Trekker4747]

So, imagine, that the Ferengi are supposed to work as villainous race on par with the Romulans, Klingons and Cardassians.

Are they beyond saving?

What could be re-worked or redesigned to make them effective? Would their appearance have to change? If so, how much?

Or is it just the way that they're presented which needs to be overhauled?

Or, because I'm sure someone holds this opinion, were they fine as they were portrayed at the outset? Should the writers have stuck with the Ferengi as villains?

They could have worked, if our first encounter with them didn't have sneering and drooling over gold, sorta acting like offensive Jewish stereotypes and then squealing over thunder like 4-year-olds. It's hard to take a villain seriously after that.

 

[MikeS]

Why do I keep seeing the phrase "Jewish stereotypes"? I know a couple of Jewish people and none of them "drool over gold" or have big ears. Is this an American thing? Like with skin colour you often see offence that isn't intended or even there unless you go looking for it. I am always surprised by the huge gap we have when it comes to equality and offence despite the many similarities shared by our two cultures.

I doubt anyone responsible for creating the Ferengi actually had Jews in mind when doing so.

 

[T'Girl]

One thing TNG was consistent about over seven seasons was the Ferengi being credible enemies of the Federation.

Problem there is your use of the word "credible."

In order to be credible, occasionally the Ferengi would of had to win over the Federation, not necessarily the heroes, but the Federation.

Look at the end of the episode Data's Day, the Romulans hand Picard his hat and give him an opportunity to slink away with his tail between his legs. In Errand of Mercy, we hear of Klingons killing people in the Federation and militarily invading it's territory.

The Federation fought a multi-decade long border war with the Cardassians that cost millions of lives and eventual had to make territorial concessions.

The Ferengi in the episodes you sight consistently lose. The Ferengi are never a real threat to the Federation (I feel this to be a mistake), they have large well armed ship, but do nothing with them. The potential for harm is there, but it doesn't manifest itself.

 

[Ithekro]

Ancient Jewish stereotype, money grubber. Greedy being one of the primary traits placed on Jews by Christians due to Middle Age laws that forbid Christians from usury. Jews became the money-lenders that would charge interest, and be associated with shady deals with money since then.

This continues even today with Jews having frugality, thriftiness to an extreme along with greed.