The New Movies Yea or Nay

[Amaris]

Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

Nay! Nay, I Say Nay! Nay!

In the wise words of Alf Garnett: "I don't like 'em!" No, wait...

...

Anyway, it is all a matter of taste. I like my Romulans tattoo free and bowl-cut heavy. I like my science hypothetical but plausible. I like aliens with rubber foreheads and I like my battle scenes to consist of seventy-percent dialogue and thirty percent intermittent continuous phaser fire.

It's what I was raised on; it's what I know and it's what I love!

Hey, don't knock it 'til you've tried it!

*leaves room with heavily tattooed Romulan woman*

 

[Mudd]

Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

I like my science hypothetical but plausible.

Star Trek pretty much fails that test, then.

 

[BillJ]

Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

I like my science hypothetical but plausible.

Star Trek pretty much fails that test, then.

What? You're telling me it isn't likely that a doctor and an assistant can routinely cure new diseases with a few hours work!

 

[Mudd]

Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

Come on, there must be some unheard-of subatomic particle or other "plausible" phenomenon that can shrink a runabout so that Trek can do the fifteen-thousandth Incredible Shrinking Man knock-off.

The folks who tried to give technical advice to Star Trek did great jobs, but one gets the sense that they were often asked to supply explanations for ridiculous things after the producers were committed to doing the ridiculous things.

 

[Kor]

Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

I don't like packaged mac & cheese with orange powder, i.e. Kraft.

I prefer a scratch-made sauce with a bechamel base and three or four kinds of old-world cheeses blended together, with slices of Italian sausage or smoked wild boar bacon, accompanied by a craft cocktail or a pint of micro-brew beer.

Oh, wait... this is about the new Trek movies.

I have been watching Star Trek since I was a wee lad in the 1980s, and TOS has always been my absolute favorite; to me, it is the one and only true Star Trek.

For years, I was continually saddened by the Trek spinoffs (except DS9, which I find to be not bad in general), including the endless PC preachyness of TNG, the horrendous inferiority of Voyager, the sheer mediocrity and boredom of Enterprise, and all the lackluster and disappointing movies that came after TWOK.

The Trek franchise continued to get overly bloated and unnecessarily complicated, yet more and more bland and mediocre at the same time.

And then there were several years with no Trek series or films. And with the direction that Trek had gone since the 80s, I didn't really miss it.

And then JJ Abrams' Star Trek was released in 2009. It ignored years of Trek baggage and went back to square one. It filled me with the same sense of wonder and adventure that I always got from the original series (and has been sorely missing from the last 20-something years of modern Trek), but on a bigger scale. I think I saw it three times in the theater, and I saw Into Darkness four times during its theatrical run. I enjoy the characterization and plot, the depiction of the Trek world, as well as the grand visuals, which I find often very reminiscent of the bright, primary color scheme of the series, as well as the cover illustrations on the old Pocket Books TOS novelizations by James Blish (those were an essential aspect of early Trek fandom). To sum it up, these movies take me back to the original series.

Yet, at the same time, I love stories that take our preconceived, comfortable notions of things and then turn them completely on their heads. And I find a lot of this kind of thing to enjoy in the new Trek movies.

So, in response to the original question, I would say Yay!

In fact, it was the new movies that finally got me interested enough in Trek again to come back to this BBS after a twelve-year hiatus.

And for the record, I HATE the way Romulans looked throughout the later Trek series... the same exact stupid-looking wig on EVERYBODY, forehead ridges, and those awful football player shoulder pads. So I was very glad to see something different in ST09! And no, Romulan culture is not based on a philosophy of logic a la the Vulcans.

Kor

 

[Amaris]

Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

Don't be absurd. Everyone knows true Romulans wear shoulder pads.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

I don't like packaged mac & cheese with orange powder, i.e. Kraft.

I prefer a scratch-made sauce with a bechamel base and three or four kinds of old-world cheeses blended together, with slices of Italian sausage or smoked wild boar bacon, accompanied by a craft cocktail or a pint of micro-brew beer.

Oh, wait... this is about the new Trek movies.

I have been watching Star Trek since I was a wee lad in the 1980s, and TOS has always been my absolute favorite; to me, it is the one and only true Star Trek.

For years, I was continually saddened by the Trek spinoffs (except DS9, which I find to be not bad in general), including the endless PC preachyness of TNG, the horrendous inferiority of Voyager, the sheer mediocrity and boredom of Enterprise, and all the lackluster and disappointing movies that came after TWOK.

The Trek franchise continued to get overly bloated and unnecessarily complicated, yet more and more bland and mediocre at the same time.

And then there were several years with no Trek series or films. And with the direction that Trek had gone since the 80s, I didn't really miss it.

And then JJ Abrams' Star Trek was released in 2009. It ignored years of Trek baggage and went back to square one. It filled me with the same sense of wonder and adventure that I always got from the original series (and has been sorely missing from the last 20-something years of modern Trek), but on a bigger scale. I think I saw it three times in the theater, and I saw Into Darkness four times during its theatrical run. I enjoy the characterization and plot, the depiction of the Trek world, as well as the grand visuals, which I find often very reminiscent of the bright, primary color scheme of the series, as well as the cover illustrations on the old Pocket Books TOS novelizations by James Blish (those were an essential aspect of early Trek fandom). To sum it up, these movies take me back to the original series.

Yet, at the same time, I love stories that take our preconceived, comfortable notions of things and then turn them completely on their heads. And I find a lot of this kind of thing to enjoy in the new Trek movies.

So, in response to the original question, I would say Yay!

In fact, it was the new movies that finally got me interested enough in Trek again to come back to this BBS after a twelve-year hiatus.

And for the record, I HATE the way Romulans looked throughout the later Trek series... the same exact stupid-looking wig on EVERYBODY, forehead ridges, and those awful football player shoulder pads. So I was very glad to see something different in ST09! And no, Romulan culture is not based on a philosophy of logic a la the Vulcans.

Kor

I always hated those wigs too. I think DS9 was my favorite of the Trek spinoff series also. TOS is still tops in my book though.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

I don't like packaged mac & cheese with orange powder, i.e. Kraft.

I prefer a scratch-made sauce with a bechamel base and three or four kinds of old-world cheeses blended together, with slices of Italian sausage or smoked wild boar bacon, accompanied by a craft cocktail or a pint of micro-brew beer.

Preach!

Any mac abd cheese where all the ingredients come in one box, aint worth my time. Powdered cheese. {{shudder}}

 

[TRON JA307020]

Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

I don't like packaged mac & cheese with orange powder, i.e. Kraft.

I prefer a scratch-made sauce with a bechamel base and three or four kinds of old-world cheeses blended together, with slices of Italian sausage or smoked wild boar bacon, accompanied by a craft cocktail or a pint of micro-brew beer.

Preach!

Any mac abd cheese where all the ingredients come in one box, aint worth my time. Powdered cheese. {{shudder}}

Eh I have always liked them(Except for the wheat ones). For some reason the premium mac and cheese and restaurant Mac and Cheese don't sit well with me. I think they are to rich with cheese.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

I don't order mac and cheese in restaurants and I'm unsure what premium mac and cheese is. My mac and cheese litmus test is what my mother made from scratch.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

I don't order mac and cheese in restaurants and I'm unsure what premium mac and cheese is. My mac and cheese litmus test is what my mother made from scratch.

Anything that is made in a restaurant or at home. My mom made mac and cheese a few times and I just didn't like it. I have had it other places, parties etc. and didn't like it. I don't know why but I just like the boxed stuff better. One of the only foods that I like better from the box actually.

 

[Kor]

Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

I occasionally order it at restaurants, since I know it will use real ingredients.... especially if they put lobster or crab

Kor

 

[Cyke101]

Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

I occasionally order it at restaurants, since I know it will use real ingredients.... especially if they put lobster or crab

Kor

Stop it. Stop it now. I just had dinner and you're making me regret my choices.

But you speak the truth about restaurant-quality mac and cheese. It *has* to be rich in cheese -- that's half the name right there!

 

[martok2112]

Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

I prefer Chili Mac, meself.

 

[BillJ]

Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

I don't order mac and cheese in restaurants and I'm unsure what premium mac and cheese is. My mac and cheese litmus test is what my mother made from scratch.

Anything that is made in a restaurant or at home. My mom made mac and cheese a few times and I just didn't like it. I have had it other places, parties etc. and didn't like it. I don't know why but I just like the boxed stuff better. One of the only foods that I like better from the box actually.

All the chemicals from the boxed stuff has destroyed your taste buds.

 

[Cromwell]

Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

I like my science hypothetical but plausible.

Star Trek pretty much fails that test, then.

Not really. Not if we're talking about broad strokes and ignoring obvious and blatant exceptions to the general rule.

Almost everything we see in the new film is off, in one way or another, if you really examine it. The black-holes don't work like real black-holes but, what's more, they don't even follow any consistent pattern of fictional logic.

At first, we're told they're time-travelling portals (Jellyfish and Narada), then we're told that they're weapons of mass destruction (Vulcan) and, then, we're told (or shown, rather) that they collapse in on themselves once it's inconvenient for them to stick around (Vulcan, again and Delta Vega), then they're back to weapons of mass destruction but, wait, you can escape from them (end of the film).

That's an integral part of the film's premise and it's almost impossible to pin down properly.

Another one crops up in the Supernova... we're not given any good explanation for several things; what caused it, why it's so powerful, why Spock waited until the last second to try and stop it, why the Romulans didn't evacuate the planet.

You could come up with explanations for those things, but it doesn't change the fact that the film-makers felt it was unnecessary (because they're just plot devices and the science is irrelevant, like in Star Wars).

In most episodes, whatever anomaly of the week we encountered was always given, at least, some kind of explanation (with weaker writers relying on techno-babble and stronger writers binding it back to some plausible hypothetical scientific scenario).

Now, the fact that I prefer the latter to the former is, of course, (as stated) a matter of taste but I don't see why you guys feel the need to resort to revisionist history by pretending, either, that there's no difference between the two, or that Star Trek was never interested in science to begin with.

As for the matter of exceptions, you can't really throw them up here. Otherwise, you might as well just carry around the "Threshold" trump card in case you encounter any kind of criticism of any other Star Trek.

"Oh, what, you didn't like this particular episode? Well... Gotcha! ...Threshold! Star Trek isn't even about science or logic!"

...

I just got finished re-watching "Patterns of Force". One of the most attractive aspects of Star Trek, to me, is exploration. Not just of space, but of ideas and concepts.

Will nuTrek ever be about exploration? I doubt it. It's action, with a pinch of space fantasy.

 

[Squiggy]

Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

Ok, so we've established that we all generally like our mother's cooking...unless there's something better you can get with better ingredients and then amazingly we like that.

Good talk. I'm glad this place exists.

 

[Franklin]

Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

I like my science hypothetical but plausible.

Star Trek pretty much fails that test, then.

Will nuTrek ever be about exploration? I doubt it. It's action, with a pinch of space fantasy.

I've always thought the TOS "exploration thing" is a bit of a myth, too. Or at least romanticized.

I'm not sure how many TOS episodes were about going where no one had gone before. Just glancing at the episodes, the Enterprise is mostly in known space, or at least only a day or two from a star base. There are maybe four or five first-season episodes that I'd say can be exploration as in coming across something new in a new area of space (or having something new come across them). I'd bet that's pretty much the average in the other two seasons.

Ok, so we've established that we all generally like our mother's cooking...unless there's something better you can get with better ingredients and then amazingly we like that.

Good talk. I'm glad this place exists.

Hey, there's more to the Internet than porn sites. Sometimes a person has to go somewhere to exercise his brain.

 

[Cromwell]

Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

I've always thought the TOS "exploration thing" is a bit of a myth, too. Or at least romanticized.

I'm not sure how many TOS episodes were about going where no one had gone before. Just glancing at the episodes, the Enterprise is mostly in known space, or at least only a day or two from a star base. There are maybe four or five first-season episodes that I'd say can be exploration as in coming across something new in a new area of space (or having something new come across them). I'd bet that's pretty much the average in the other two seasons.

Just a brief once over, and I see at least eight episode which match your criteria and quite a few more that, as I said, explore concepts and ideas.

That's why I cited "Patterns of Force" as a good example; the planet is, essentially, an unprecedented social experiment. Science fiction has always had that liberty; to explore social systems and political economies, without being limited by real-world conditions.

 

[Franklin]

Re: The New Movies Yay or Nay

I've always thought the TOS "exploration thing" is a bit of a myth, too. Or at least romanticized.

I'm not sure how many TOS episodes were about going where no one had gone before. Just glancing at the episodes, the Enterprise is mostly in known space, or at least only a day or two from a star base. There are maybe four or five first-season episodes that I'd say can be exploration as in coming across something new in a new area of space (or having something new come across them). I'd bet that's pretty much the average in the other two seasons.

Just a brief once over, and I see at least eight episode which match your criteria and quite a few more that, as I said, explore concepts and ideas.

That's why I cited "Patterns of Force" as a good example; the planet is, essentially, an unprecedented social experiment. Science fiction has always had that liberty; to explore social systems and political economies, without being limited by real-world conditions.

OK, exploring as storytelling and exploring a theme in depth. I can see that, but that's exploring as a metaphor. Stories of literal exploration by the Enterprise in TOS, I'd still say there's not so much, or as much as one may imagine. For example, in POF, the planet had been visited before by Starfleet.

I'd say in terms of storytelling, STID explored changes in character in response to a crisis (Kirk, Spock, Marcus and Khan) and what can happen to social systems when they feel threatened (the purpose of Starfleet post-Nero).