The Walking Dead Season 5

[TREK_GOD_1]

Two men who later killed a man (so life isn't actually that precious to Morgan....just the lives of those he personally has the means to kill)

Although he understood the "W" guys would do the same elsewhere, the bigger picture is that HE considers life precious, which would naturally include not taking it. After being near-crazy, and living on a block of death traps, Morgan must have gone through some remarkable experience to turn into the guy seen in this finale.

I think they're setting up conflict there between him and Rick. I doubt Morgan will become a regular and they'll probably have him move on (isn't his non regular status exactly why he's so popular anyway)

Oh, I think it has to go this way. The switch is clear: when last together, Morgan was the one who had a bleak, deadly view of the world (remember he asked Carl not to be sorry for shooting him), while and now Rick has that view--but in a broad, controlling way over more than himself.

I would not be shocked if Rick either turns on Morgan, or does something so despicable that he feels Rick is beyond help, so he (Morgan) will leave, sad, and/or wounded.

I can see seasons seven or eight being ones where Rick is now the one trying to find Morgan

That might unfold if Rick is dealt a blow worse than anything before, namely, the death of Judith. I'll leave Carl out of that, as he still seems untouchable to the show's grim reaper.

Eh, that's what the actor believes, but I have a hard time seeing it. Maybe he didn't want to kill them himself, but honking the horn while they're stuck in the car is more likely to result in a zombie dinner bell than others coming to help. Did Morgan know there were more nearby, close enough to hear a horn? Knew there would be walkers coming, for sure.

If he honked the horn to attract walkers to two unconscious men, that's no different than killing them on his own. The result is the same. That's why I agree with Lennie James regarding the horn; between the two "W" guys showing up with no supplies (meaning they either had transportation or a base nearby), and the forehead mutilation (meaning something, even if Morgan did not know what), it would be wise to think they are not completely alone.

Maybe he doesn't want the blood on his hands, or maybe he's ok with it being 50/50 they get rescued, but I don't buy that it was kindness. If he was doing it for their benefit, just leave them in the car, no horn. they'll wake up and get out eventually, and won't attract attention being passed out in the interim (most likely). the horn just forces the matter, rescue or death by walker. And who knows how much help is coming (if at all), maybe 1 guy shows and can't carry them, or they slow down the 2 that come, and all 4 end up buying the farm?

Despite what Lenny says, not really buying it logically.

If one thinks life is precious, he will not play 50/50 at all, since just about all in the ZA world know death has a strong possibility of happening at any time, so that reason would be self-deceiving (that he's moral) at best.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

@TREK_GOD_1, you've got a bad Quote attribution there, that's not my quote you attached my name to.

Ah. Sorry. Here we go...

Sure Rick's interference was the catalyst that drove the Drunk Child/Wife Beater to his inevitible blow up, but, it would've happened with anyone stepping in to interfere in and control Pete's life.

Rick not only was an outsider shoving his foot through the door, but was visibly horny for his wife. That last part was as explosive as any situation could be when detected, so
there was nothing Rick could accomplish. He was not seen as neutral, but as a threat.

Shane with Ed, Rick panting after Jessie, Carol stepping up for a victim as Shane did for her, Michonne as Deputy, Aiden or Deanna as Community Leaders....Anyone who came in to force him to stop his behavior would've caused him to blow. And there would've been no possibility of getting him to change without forcing it.

See the reply above: Rick was not a neutral party, but a threat. Aiden, Deanna or her husband do not give off the energy of "I want to screw your wife." Big emotional difference in a triggering response.

 

[Sindatur]

Aiden, Deanna or her husband do not give off the energy of "I want to screw your wife." Big emotional difference in a triggering response.

That is correct that they don't give off that energy, but, I do not believe that Deaana, Michonne or Aiden, or anyone else stepping in to force him to stop beating on his wife and children would have ended any differently than Pete blowing a gasket. Do you honestly believe it wouldn't have still ended in Pete blowing a gasket (Or for that matter, do you honestly believe Pete would've stopped beating his wife and children without being forced to?)

I think a blowup was inevitable, no matter who interfered

 

[kitik]

Eh, that's what the actor believes, but I have a hard time seeing it. Maybe he didn't want to kill them himself, but honking the horn while they're stuck in the car is more likely to result in a zombie dinner bell than others coming to help. Did Morgan know there were more nearby, close enough to hear a horn? Knew there would be walkers coming, for sure.

That's not at all what he said. He didn't hit the horn to get other Wolves to show up, he hit the horn to see if there were any zombies nearby. When none showed, he knew it was safe to leave those two in the car. (Or if some did show up, he whacked 'em and then left the Wolves in safety afterwards.)

 

[Base_Delta_Zero]

I like how Porchdick managed to find the only unsecured weapon in Alexadnria: Michonne's katana.

It took half of her family dying horribly, but Deanna finally realized what had to be done with worthless members of the group: you put them down.

Glenn not killing Nicholas was insane after what? THREE previous attempts at murder? Every single character on the show who has expressed a sudden aversion to doing necessary violence and maintained that attitude for more than an episode or two has died shortly thereafter as a lesson to everyone else. I wouldn't be surprised if Glenn bit it next season, but he may have one of the few permanent character shields, so he could be an exception to the rule, I guess.

No matter how forcefully anyone cares to argue it, 99% of the (rational) viewing audience and all of the characters on screen don't give two shits about Porchdick's tough luck encountering someone who wouldn't allow him to continue terrorizing his family. Rick WAS the law in town and did exactly what he should have done: confront Drunky McWife-beater. The mistake was doing so solo. Michonne would have helped him had she known. Deanna's mistake was the unsupervised "time out" Porchdick got. They could have at least had someone keeping an eye on him, or hell, force him to attend the meeting and defend himself.

Zen Morgan was pretty lame, I thought. He went from "I can't kill my zombie wife" to "my zombie wife ate my son so I am now insane, bunkered down and slaughtering zombies" to "I am now a wandering Jedi Knight with master bo staff skillz who won't kill murderous assholes." I'm sure Red Poncho Guy really appreciated that, Morgan. Bravo, idiot. You saved Aaron and Daryl from the Obvious Trap is Obvious set-up, now feel free to fucking vanish from the series again. Although the way this show burns through black men, maybe you should stick around so Glenn doesn't die.

----

Fear the Walking Dead could be good, since the beginning of the end of civilization is usually entertaining. Then again, they're going to have to show the military getting pwned by squishy, slow zombies, which never makes any sense in Zombie Apocalypse stories. Eh, maybe they'll skip it and focus everything in downtown LA with just civilians. Something to watch, anyway.

Mad Men, then FTWD, then what? TWD again? Cool. Keep 'em comin', AMC.

 

[hux]

Although he understood the "W" guys would do the same elsewhere, the bigger picture is that HE considers life precious, which would naturally include not taking it.

That's fine, as long as he doesn't criticise others for killing people who took lives or who would have gone on to take lives. That's bullshit but I have a feeling he will

It took half of her family dying horribly, but Deanna finally realized what had to be done with worthless members of the group: you put them down.

If I was Deanna though, I'd be thinking, Rick's group arrived and a week later my son and husband are both dead and the community has been thrown into turmoil. They'll probably gloss over that but wouldn't that be human nature to blame him. I guess it depends on how bad things were before they arrived. Maybe things were terrible before Rick's group arrived but it was kinda presented as though all was well in Alexandria

Deanna's mistake was the unsupervised "time out" Porchdick got. They could have at least had someone keeping an eye on him, or hell, force him to attend the meeting and defend himself.

Frankly I'm amazed Rick and Pete weren't both under supervision (Rick more so.....he was the mad man waving a gun around) in fact, why was Pete sent to a different house at all. What crime did he commit exactly, other than being beaten to shit by Rick in the street. They've known about his wife beating activity for ages so they can't pretend moving him was due to that without looking like massive dicks

Zen Morgan was pretty lame, I thought. He went from "I can't kill my zombie wife" to "my zombie wife ate my son so I am now insane, bunkered down and slaughtering zombies" to "I am now a wandering Jedi Knight with master bo staff skillz who won't kill murderous assholes."

I prefer to think of him as "book of Eli" Morgan. I think the Walking Dead may take all that fan favourite, Morgan good will and balls it up. The sooner they send him back on the road, the sooner he will be saved by TWD bad writing

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Glenn not killing Nicholas was insane after what? THREE previous attempts at murder? Every single character on the show who has expressed a sudden aversion to doing necessary violence and maintained that attitude for more than an episode or two has died shortly thereafter as a lesson to everyone else. I wouldn't be surprised if Glenn bit it next season, but he may have one of the few permanent character shields, so he could be an exception to the rule, I guess.

Glenn is written to follow the same path as Hershel when dealing with enemies (as in his final attempt to reason with the Governor). In the mid-season premiere, Glenn temporarily lost his sense of hope when he expressed (to Rick) how he would have killed Dawn, but he's always fighting against that soul-killing impulse. That fight continues in the video interview (with Deanna) where he worried the group had been on the road too long. He's one of the only consistent characters.

I think everyone expects Nicholas to turn on Glenn again--probably leading to Glenn's death--or even multilation, but that seems to be the way the series is playing it. ...or, Glenn's humanity will be paid back by something happening to Maggie...

No matter how forcefully anyone cares to argue it, 99% of the (rational) viewing audience and all of the characters on screen don't give two shits about Porchdick's tough luck encountering someone who wouldn't allow him to continue terrorizing his family. Rick WAS the law in town and did exactly what he should have done: confront Drunky McWife-beater. The mistake was doing so solo. Michonne would have helped him had she known. [/quote]

Violence does not work with a violent person, There's nothing rational about that kind of confrontation. That might seem "right" on TV, but not real life. There are some fans who are disturbingly hot for the lawless, adulterous behavior of Rick, but his every action only set death in motion. He's not the law. Deanna is that. He's just a hired hand who ignored Deanna's position because it suited his lust for Jessie. Noted earlier, the only realistic part of the plot was Pete seeking revenge--that is a mirror of what happens when a violent person is treated with violence.

Deanna's mistake was the unsupervised "time out" Porchdick got. They could have at least had someone keeping an eye on him, or hell, force him to attend the meeting and defend himself.

He would likely feel he need not defend himself, since he thought he was a part of the community, while the newcomers have beat a resident, and played a part in Aiden's death.

I'm sure Red Poncho Guy really appreciated that, Morgan. Bravo, idiot.

Amusing how innocent characters are blamed for the actions of others--which in the "W" men's case would happen even if they never met Morgan. They kill--that was established.

Aiden, Deanna or her husband do not give off the energy of "I want to screw your wife." Big emotional difference in a triggering response.

That is correct that they don't give off that energy, but, I do not believe that Deaana, Michonne or Aiden, or anyone else stepping in to force him to stop beating on his wife and children would have ended any differently than Pete blowing a gasket. Do you honestly believe it wouldn't have still ended in Pete blowing a gasket (Or for that matter, do you honestly believe Pete would've stopped beating his wife and children without being forced to?)

I think a blowup was inevitable, no matter who interfered

In a sober state, there would have been room to discuss the situation, but when the man who so clearly desires his wife shows up trying to threaten/force his will, that snuffed out any other option.

 

[Silvercrest]

Rick's actions snuffed out any other option for someone in Pete's state of mind, but that doesn't make it Rick's fault. Pete is still responsible for his own actions.

Why did they kill red poncho guy, anyway? The dialogue sounded like they needed it to help reset the trap, but obviously that wasn't a problem.

 

[Scout101]

I don't get the point of the trap in the first place. It's not accepting more zombies, so it's not to trap them. They don't APPEAR to be eating people (the wolves, not the zombies), so it's not to catch food. And they keep it quiet/zombies locked inside when the trap is dormant, so what are they trying to 'catch' in the trap?

Are they just after whatever the people in the trap are carrying when they get caught? Seems like lots of effort for little gain. Or are they just trying to kill/thin out other humans in the area to cut down on competition?

Doesn't make a ton of sense to me. And for sure, what does killing the poncho guy buy them? Already had him under control, and whatever he had on him. Just killing and dumping in the trap for nothing?

 

[ThunderAeroI]

Some people just want to watch the world burn

 

[Velocity]

Looks sort of like they are in the business of making zombies. I assume all the W zombies came from the wolves. Why they would want to make more zombies, I don't know. I don't read the comics and don't want to be enlightened by those who do.

How did the guy who left the note know that bad people were coming? Had he run away from them?

 

[hux]

Wolves aren't in the comics. They seem like a pretty flimsy enemy but we'll see where they go with it

I assumed it was the Wolves themselves that left the note (playing with their prey)

Red riding hood bloke was always for the chop

 

[Morpheus 02]

Dam that was one of the worst deaths in TWD, Brutal ending for Noah and if I was Glenn, I'd shot the guy Gabriel is also worthy of a bullet right now the traitorous bastard.

Damn, been a bad time to be a brother lately on The Walking Dead

This was an old multiquote i had...other responses talked about minorities on the show...but i think some of us have seen a pattern with specifically black males. Though i think the least outrage will come when Gabriel dies. (No spoilers -- just seems pretty inevitable)

Been bad to be a brother on this show full stop though lately it's like the show is being written by Ferguson cops.

Well even if Deanna buys their story, she might still decide that having them around is more trouble than it's worth, and is endangering their own people too much. Or is making things just a lot more unpredictable than they used to be.

As for Gabriel, I think I would have preferred if the writers had him saying "We're not good people. You shouldn't have let us in, etc". I think that would have been far more powerful and interesting, instead of simply making it about Gabriel trying to save his own skin.

Except Gabriel doesn't know these guys... i think in his case, this has been "logical" for the character...but hopefully next season we get a chance to see him come to grips with his past as he grasps the present

I think it's a good symptom of the running theme here - that whether intentionally or by accident, Rick's group HAS been out there for too long, and that they are the de facto antagonists here. Sure, there's some domestic violence and general jerkwad-ness going on in Alexandria (the latter of which has expired), but as the stuff hits the fan now, it's very tough to root for our team with all that's going on.

Mark

i see what you're saying..but i think the last few scenes helped us remember why we are rooting for our team.

How did the Rev not get any gore on himself, not to mention pine needles?

God protected him from having to do laundry.

Although some small part of me is wondering if they aren't messing with us and that Rick was just putting a bullet in Reg and not Pete.

Rick definitely shot Pete, not Reg. Deanna was holding Reg, and Rick spun away from Deanna. If he'd shot Reg he would have had to step forward.

I thought they confirmed on Talking Dead that the Alexandra people did not know that everyone who dies (except from brain damage) turns. If so, this further explains why it would be unlikely Rick would shoot Reg instead of Pete, as Deanna would have no reason to have Rick shoot her husband instead of his killer.

Well, they were both on the ground. But yes, I agree it was Pete. I think they are setting up Rick and Morgan butting heads next season, what with Morgan's new philosophy of "all life is precious" and all.

Yeah, the confrontation is predictable...but how it goes down i think it will be interesting, just like the 2 other previous Morgan encounters.

i just hope it ends with Morgan moving on rather than dying.

I really enjoyed this finale and really breathed a sigh of relief when none of our main characters died tonight. I loved the scene after Pete killed Reg and Deanna just looked at Rick, said his name, and without hesitation Rick did what needed to be done. Although some small part of me is wondering if they aren't messing with us and that Rick was just putting a bullet in Reg and not Pete.

I thought there was a quick hesitation -- enough for me to wonder if Deanna was going to blame Rick for Reg's death -- rather than her real decision.

He hates himself for letting all those people die, but he takes it out on everyone else. He talks about how nasty Rick's group are, but they always treat him better than he deserves.

How did the Rev not get any gore on himself, not to mention pine needles?

I still think that damned priest needs to die. He just proves it every time he's got more than five seconds of airtime!

Yeah, Garbiel deserves to die...but i wouldn't mind him trying to man up like Eugene...though he'll probably fail miserably and die in the process.

Wolves aren't in the comics. They seem like a pretty flimsy enemy but we'll see where they go with it

I assumed it was the Wolves themselves that left the note (playing with their prey)

Red riding hood bloke was always for the chop

i'm hoping the Wolves we saw were just the lowest level/entry level intern type of Wolves.

The REAL ones are out there, waiting to be the Big Bad of season 6


Also, one random question.... when Gabriel went out, he encountered a Walker eating a FRESHLY KILLED human. Did anyone else NOT think about this -- who was that guy...how/why was he so close to Alexandria? Was he trying to scout there?

 

[kitik]

Looks sort of like they are in the business of making zombies.

That's what you'd think, but their actions seem to indicate otherwise. All the live people that they come across seem to end up getting mutilated or dismembered beyond the point of being a viable zombie. Think of the truck full of torsos that we saw at Noah's camp in episode 9. No arms, no legs, those things were no threat unless someone sticks a hand in their mouth.

Refresh my memory here, but doesn't it seem like just about every live victim of the wolves has been dismembered or torn apart (tied to a tree) to the point where they're finished? Even the attack on Morgan, they were swinging for his head. He wasn't going to reanimate from that.

The only exception that I can think of is maybe red poncho guy. I think they slit his throat. I think he would have come back as a zombie after that.

So I wonder if they just go around, killing every living person they see, and marking every zombie with a W, perhaps claiming them as part of an army or marking their territory.

 

[Tom Hendricks]

I too am thinking Army. The two 'interns' seam to like watching people get turned.

 

[Sindatur]

Regarding Gabriel and the dining Zombie, yea, at first glance, it looked like Rick, so, it entered my head for a few seconds that they had already banished him, and he'd already been killed.

But, yea, kinda strange to have a Zombie victim so close and no mention of it, especially by Gabriel.

 

[kitik]

But, yea, kinda strange to have a Zombie victim so close and no mention of it, especially by Gabriel.

That's just random bad-luck victim #563 on this show. How many times have our people come across someone who just died or just got attacked?

 

[kitik]

So a lot of people are speculating (for obvious reasons) that Glenn is going to regret not killing Nicolas and he'll be the cause of some sort of harm to Glenn, Maggie, or someone like that, but there's another decent possibilty. It seems to me that if Glenn reports on all of Nicolas's crimes, Rick will sentence him to death right away. That would be a perfect opportunity for Morgan to chime in and start butting heads with Rick. Maybe the reason Nicolas survived the finale is so his fate can be the focal point of an episode or two at the start of next season.

Wouldn't it be a nice little twist if Nicolas saved Glenn or Maggie during an attack from the Wolves? Though based on what we've seen of Nicolas's character and actions, the odds of that happening aren't very good.

 

[Sindatur]

But, yea, kinda strange to have a Zombie victim so close and no mention of it, especially by Gabriel.

That's just random bad-luck victim #563 on this show. How many times have our people come across someone who just died or just got attacked?

Yea, but, it seems the Community Leadership would want recon on it, in case a victim being so close was either someone known to them, or could present a threat. They thoroughly check out potential invitees from miles around, but, don't know about something that happened right outside their gates?

 

[shivkala]

But, yea, kinda strange to have a Zombie victim so close and no mention of it, especially by Gabriel.

That's just random bad-luck victim #563 on this show. How many times have our people come across someone who just died or just got attacked?

Since Walkers seem to only stick around food sources, it does make sense that the group would come across people who just died or got attacked. This indicates that Walkers would not be far behind.

Though, probably the worst-luck victim had to be the hitchhiker from "Clear," who Rick, Michonne, and Carl passed by, alive, and on their return, found dead.

I'm thinking that you guys are right about the Wolves having different levels. We're seeing the grunts/interns who have the least training and are the most sadistic.

I think the Wolves higher in the hierarchy are the ones who designed the trap. The grunts/interns probably are in charge of maintaining it, and used Red Poncho Guy to start to replenish it after Daryl, Morgan, and Aaron killed off a bunch.