Kinda Off Topic: Bad reviews might be good for sales

[JD]

I saw this article on Io9 and though some of the people on here might find it interesting since we do a lot of reviewing here.
It sounds kind of weird at first, but it really does make a lot of sense. There have been times where I've seen somebody complaining about something that they didn't like, that is something that I knew I'd like.

 

[The Wormhole]

It's true, there really is no such thing as bad publicity.

 

[Idran]

It's true, there really is no such thing as bad publicity.

Wouldn't mediocre reviews qualify? If something gets a solid "meh" from most people, you'd avoid the boost from either side; how many people are going to be drawn to something that tends to only illicit apathy?

 

[Nathan]

I am always a little cautious when I read Trek Lit reviews on the BBS site. it seems books rarely get an overall bad review. It seems with all the books, it gets an overwhelming great view (when tabulated overall). You'll have a few here and there say the book suxed, but overall the it appears the Trek book is Pulitzer Prize Winning!

I was on the GoodReads website and checked out some reviews for some Trek Lit (for both book that I loved and some that I loathed) and shocked that there were a bunch of negative reviews.

But again, I suppose us Trek BBS folks simply love all the Trek books!

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I am always a little cautious when I read Trek Lit reviews on the BBS site. it seems books rarely get an overall bad review. It seems with all the books, it gets an overwhelming great view (when tabulated overall). You'll have a few here and there say the book suxed, but overall the it appears the Trek book is Pulitzer Prize Winning!

I was on the GoodReads website and checked out some reviews for some Trek Lit (for both book that I loved and some that I loathed) and shocked that there were a bunch of negative reviews.

But again, I suppose us Trek BBS folks simply love all the Trek books!

Yes, I'd say most of us are reviewing them as Trek books specifically, not as books in general. That is to say, when I write reviews here the only competition (at least the only competition that matters) is other Trek novels. I don't compare them to the wider literary market, so to speak. Because I'm invested in this universe the book can generally expect my enjoyment automatically; exceptional quality is a bonus. For a casual fan, not automatically invested, a book would presumably have to work harder to draw them in or justify itself.

I do try to have a consistent standard in how I grade them - that is, 'outstanding' and 'poor' grades are very rare. Average should indeed be average. That said, I do tend to give more "above averages" than is strictly logical. It's not my fault that we have good authors!

 

[Nathan]

I do think the TrekBBS-ers do give somewhat a pass to the Trek Authors...yeah, there are some good ones here....guess my beef is that since I've been reading the books since I've been 15 so I've read probably about 90% of Trek Lit (to clarifly the books I mean from Pocket/S & S, not the comics)....when I skim books that I haven't read in awhile, sometimes I'm like I can't believe I liked it (or Yep, I can believe my 15 year old self loved it, but my 40 year old self thinks it is crap). Mostly it is "It was crap then, its' crap now".

And with so many authors (at least when they were numbered books), I surprised that people didn't think there were more clunkers.

Side note, Strangers from the Sky is one of the few books I didn't like as a teen, but loved as an adult on the re-read.

 

[Idran]

I do think the TrekBBS-ers do give somewhat a pass to the Trek Authors...yeah, there are some good ones here....guess my beef is that since I've been reading the books since I've been 15 so I've read probably about 90% of Trek Lit (to clarifly the books I mean from Pocket/S & S, not the comics)....when I skim books that I haven't read in awhile, sometimes I'm like I can't believe I liked it (or Yep, I can believe my 15 year old self loved it, but my 40 year old self thinks it is crap). Mostly it is "It was crap then, its' crap now".

And with so many authors (at least when they were numbered books), I surprised that people didn't think there were more clunkers.

Side note, Strangers from the Sky is one of the few books I didn't like as a teen, but loved as an adult on the re-read.

The numbered books rarely ever come up here, though, except for the late ones that ended up as part of the modern Treklit universes. Like, I've never even seen a review thread for a numbered book that I can remember offhand. So it's not like they're constantly lauded or anything. I mean, the only time I've seen the numbered books as a whole come up in any significant quantity was in the "bad Treklit" thread. It's just the modern books that people have a generally high view of here.

 

[Nathan]

Idran, I agree, usually there is more "griping" about the older books than the newer books. But I betcha when the older books first came out, they were considered the best thing since sliced bread (of course could be wrong).

I just think Trek Fans "go easy" on the Trek books...whereas other sites, say Amazon or GoodReads tend to be more fair with the review. I can't believe in 2014 with say at least 12 books per year (1 per month), that there can't be at least 1 clunker or at least 1 book that sucked in people's mind.

I can think of a couple, and glad I get them at half price at a used book store. A few years back there was one book I couldn't stand (the author posts here frequently so I won't call it out), sucked so bad, I "speed read" through the book and took it back to the bookstore to get my money back just I could move on to the next book, cuz his installment suxed so bad.

 

[Idran]

Rough Beasts of Empire got so badly taken by this forum that it got DRG3 to leave. Plenty of people here have some strong negative opinions about the Romulan War duology they aren't shy about sharing. Indistinguishable from Magic got more than a couple pans here when it came out, though that seems to have softened lately. Fallen Gods has almost no fans. Most people didn't care for Absent Enemies at all. Shadow of the Machine literally just came out a month ago, and most people seem to feel "eh" about it at best.

These are literally just off the top of my head, without doing any searching on the board whatsoever. At worst, TrekBBS skews higher on Trek books than other review locations. But it's certainly not true that the forum collectively loves every single Trek book to come out over the last few years completely uncritically; there most certainly are Trek books that go over badly even here. It's not universal - there are books in that first paragraph that I enjoy pretty well, myself - but there are certainly recent books where the general opinion on the forum skews negative.

 

[Greg Cox]

I do think the TrekBBS-ers do give somewhat a pass to the Trek Authors...yeah, there are some good ones here....guess my beef is that since I've been reading the books since I've been 15 so I've read probably about 90% of Trek Lit (to clarifly the books I mean from Pocket/S & S, not the comics)....when I skim books that I haven't read in awhile, sometimes I'm like I can't believe I liked it (or Yep, I can believe my 15 year old self loved it, but my 40 year old self thinks it is crap). Mostly it is "It was crap then, its' crap now".

And with so many authors (at least when they were numbered books), I surprised that people didn't think there were more clunkers.

Side note, Strangers from the Sky is one of the few books I didn't like as a teen, but loved as an adult on the re-read.

The numbered books rarely ever come up here, though, except for the late ones that ended up as part of the modern Treklit universes. Like, I've never even seen a review thread for a numbered book that I can remember offhand. So it's not like they're constantly lauded or anything. I mean, the only time I've seen the numbered books as a whole come up in any significant quantity was in the "bad Treklit" thread. It's just the modern books that people have a generally high view of here.

Although the numbered books do come up occasionally, particularly in the "What Are You Reading?" thread. I still see comments, and even get the occasional fan letter, concerning some of my earliest books, like "Devil in the Sky" and "The Black Shore" and "Dragon's Honor."

And, thanks to the modern miracle of ebooks, people seem to be rediscovering the older books more than they used to.

 

[Therin of Andor]

But again, I suppose us Trek BBS folks simply love all the Trek books!

I recall Marco Palmieri saying here that he loved it when a Trek book polarized the fans. Better that the readers either love or hate it than every new book being met with overall lukewarm acceptance by everyone.

These are literally just off the top of my head, without doing any searching on the board whatsoever.

"The Prometheus Design" (hard going!)
"Triangle" (even harder going!)
"Red Sector" (which I loved!)
"Warped"
"Rebels" trilogy
"The Laertian Gamble" (ugh!)
"Dark Matters" trilogy
"Into the Nebula" (wake me!)
"Genesis Wave 3" (until Worf shows up)
"Death in Winter" (which I enjoyed)
"Before Dishonor" (Loved!)

 

[Idran]

These are literally just off the top of my head, without doing any searching on the board whatsoever.

"The Prometheus Design" (hard going!)
"Triangle" (even harder going!)
"Red Sector" (which I loved!)
"Warped"
"Rebels" trilogy
"The Laertian Gamble" (ugh!)
"Dark Matters" trilogy
"Into the Nebula" (wake me!)
"Genesis Wave 3" (until Worf shows up)
"Death in Winter" (which I enjoyed)
"Before Dishonor" (Loved!)

Oh, I would've brought up some of those too, yeah (plus half of the Bantam books in general, and anything non-TOS by Diane Carey), but Nathan was saying that TrekBBS only dislikes older books, and it's newer books that they love without question. Though Death in Winter and Before Dishonor, those'd probably qualify as counterarguments to that point too, yeah.

 

[Therin of Andor]

it's newer books that they love without question.

But that truism is not really true.

 

[Klaus]

I like just about all of the modern Trek books to some degree or another, and I don't see it as giving TrekLit some kind of pass, it's just that I get different kinds of enjoyment from different kinds of stories and styles. Two of my favorite non-Trek authors are Gene Wolfe and Harry Turtledove, for example, and you can't go much further than the difference between those two lol... depends what I'm in the mood for. In the old days I pretty much ended up just sticking to a few dependable Trek authors but now I read all of it.

 

[USS Pertinax]

i wonder how much extra enjoyment we get out of things that exist in the universe getting mentioned opposed to a casual reader.

 

[Data Soong]

I am always a little cautious when I read Trek Lit reviews on the BBS site. it seems books rarely get an overall bad review. It seems with all the books, it gets an overwhelming great view (when tabulated overall). You'll have a few here and there say the book suxed, but overall the it appears the Trek book is Pulitzer Prize Winning!

I was on the GoodReads website and checked out some reviews for some Trek Lit (for both book that I loved and some that I loathed) and shocked that there were a bunch of negative reviews.

But again, I suppose us Trek BBS folks simply love all the Trek books!

What angers me from lurking for a long time before joining is the praise KRAD, David Mack, Kirsten Beyer get because they post here.

Mack's quality has dropped since Destiny, Beyer writes ok character but bad action, KRAD tries to be Comic Book Funny and Bennett is too sciency and explains EVERYTHING. But since the participate they don't get the critique they deserve

 

[Thrawn]

Nope, sorry; your "anger" is misplaced and wrong. No one gets praise just because they post here. Lots of people don't like Christopher's books and say so, for instance; I particularly remember a bunch of people not liking T'Ryssa Chen when she was introduced in Greater Than The Sum and that conversation went on for a long time.

David R George III used to post here, as well, but at least partially because of the very negative fan response to The Rough Beasts of Empire, he left. He definitely didn't get a pass just for hanging around the boards.

Generally, people post here because they like this stuff; you don't get an unbiased sample of Trek fans here. No one is reading books they hate just because they think it's cool that authors show up every once in a while, and saying so is insulting and obviously wrong.

If you don't believe me, start a thread where you intelligently and thoughtfully critique any of those authors that you mentioned, and you'll discover that a lot of fans disagree with you, but you won't be abused or flamed or dismissed either. Those threads do happen, and are an important part of the conversation here.

 

[Idran]

Pretty much what Thrawn said. Especially Kirsten Beyer; if you think she doesn't get criticism, you should've been around before Janeway was brought back. Thrawn mentioned DRG3 who, like he said, stopped coming here because the reaction to Rough Beasts of Empire was so negative. Or Indistinguishable From Magic; plenty of people had plenty of fairly harsh criticism for that, even with McIntee actively participating in the criticism thread (and I know he's still around, though I have to admit that I've forgotten his username just at the moment). And same with Absent Enemies, it got torn to shreds pretty badly by some people, even with JJM being active on the forum.

Seriously, it's not because they post here, it's because your opinions aren't universally held and you're simply in disagreement with the opinions of others. If you feel that way about those authors, that's fine, but those aren't objectively true facts that people are ignoring or anything. Those are purely subjective viewpoints that you hold but that other people here don't, nothing more than that.

 

[SicOne]

...Bennett...explains EVERYTHING.

Some us of actually LIKE that. At least I know I do. That he interacts with readers on the BBS is a bonus, but I'd still dig his work immensely even if he didn't. His first DTI book is one of my Trek favorites.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Mack's quality has dropped since Destiny, Beyer writes ok character but bad action, KRAD tries to be Comic Book Funny and Bennett is too sciency and explains EVERYTHING. But since the participate they don't get the critique they deserve

Huh?

Totally disagree.

KRAD tries to be "comic book funny"? In which novels? Or did you mean PAD (ie. Peter David?)