Doomsday Machine not best of TOS

[Hatshepsut]

From another thread:

Did I just hear Doomsday Machine called a horrid episode?

While "The Doomsday Machine" is almost on every top 5 TOS (or even franchise) list, it is interesting to read someone with the polar opposite opinion. That member should start a thread detailing all of the alleged problems with the episode.

Which is only my subjective but nonetheless considered opinion. Windom's performance as Commodore Decker isn't fully convincing: He doesn't come across as a traumatized man bent on amending his wrongs, say when he airily dismisses Spock's request that he vacate the captain's chair on the Enterprise toward the endgame of the drama. Decker's sudden assumption of command itself can be excused on artistic license grounds although high brass in actual modern navies would almost never do such a thing: Deferring to the senior officer on board who knows the ship and crew usually makes more sense. Worse is that Decker's suicide is rendered pointless by the later successful use of the empty Constellation to destroy the machine, a small item which evades Kirk and Spock during their banter after the event.

I tend to view Star Trek from a sociological perspective, as a morality play for the Cold War era. The idea of the doomsday machine has ample motivation amid the hair trigger of launch on warning systems for nuclear weapons that no belligerent really wants to use. Fine. Yet I feel Star Trek shone brighter in episodes where the human element was explored, for instance “The Paradise Syndrome.” The latter features Kirk’s lengthy joyful interlude outside his captain’s role, his lapse in dealing with the rivalry created by his new marriage, and acknowledges through Salish that “primitive” folks are quite capable of figuring out who is or isn’t a deity.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Windom's performance as Commodore Decker isn't fully convincing: He doesn't come across as a traumatized man bent on amending his wrongs, say when he airily dismisses Spock's request that he vacate the captain's chair on the Enterprise toward the endgame of the drama.

After Star Trek took off in syndication, Windom spent the rest of his life hearing lavish praise for his performance in "The Doomsday Machine," to the point where it annoyed him that nothing else he'd done was being remembered. This according to him telling anecdotes on youtube.

"The Doomsday Machine" is a great episode because it's exciting, much like Jaws (1975), whose music score included a coincidentally (but very) similar theme for the menace.

"The Paradise Syndrome" is also an episode I love, and like you said, it's entirely different. Both of those shows got a lot of help from their music.

 

[scotpens]

Worse is that Decker's suicide is rendered pointless by the later successful use of the empty Constellation to destroy the machine, a small item which evades Kirk and Spock during their banter after the event.

It was Decker's suicide that gave Kirk and Spock the idea in the first place.

SPOCK: Sir, may I offer my condolences on the death of your friend. It is most regrettable.

[Constellation Auxiliary Control]

KIRK: It's regrettable that he died for nothing.

[Bridge]

SULU: Mister Spock, sensors indicate a minute drop in the machine's power emanations. Do you think the shuttlecraft explosion might have done some damage?

KIRK [OC]: What about that, Spock? Is it possible?

SPOCK: The drop in power is definite, Captain but negligible. The object is still pursing us, thereby causing us to drain our power reserve at a much greater rate.

A bit later:

KIRK: Spock, listen. Maybe Matt Decker didn't die for nothing. He had the right idea but not enough power to do it. Am I correct in assuming that a fusion explosion of ninety-seven megatons will result if a starship impulse engine is overloaded?

SPOCK: No, sir. Ninety-seven point eight three five megatons.

[Constellation Auxiliary Control]

KIRK: Ninety-seven point eight three five. Will it be powerful enough to destroy that thing out there?

[Bridge]

SPOCK: Negative, Captain. Its hull is pure neutronium. There is no known way of blasting through it.

[Constellation Auxiliary Control]

KIRK: Not through it, Spock, from inside it. Will it be enough?

[Bridge]

SPOCK: Insufficient data. I shall try to take further sensor readings.

 

[CrazyMatt]

From another thread:

Did I just hear Doomsday Machine called a horrid episode?

While "The Doomsday Machine" is almost on every top 5 TOS (or even franchise) list, it is interesting to read someone with the polar opposite opinion. That member should start a thread detailing all of the alleged problems with the episode.

Which is only my subjective but nonetheless considered opinion. Windom's performance as Commodore Decker isn't fully convincing: He doesn't come across as a traumatized man bent on amending his wrongs, say when he airily dismisses Spock's request that he vacate the captain's chair on the Enterprise toward the endgame of the drama. Decker's sudden assumption of command itself can be excused on artistic license grounds although high brass in actual modern navies would almost never do such a thing: Deferring to the senior officer on board who knows the ship and crew usually makes more sense. Worse is that Decker's suicide is rendered pointless by the later successful use of the empty Constellation to destroy the machine, a small item which evades Kirk and Spock during their banter after the event.

I tend to view Star Trek from a sociological perspective, as a morality play for the Cold War era. The idea of the doomsday machine has ample motivation amid the hair trigger of launch on warning systems for nuclear weapons that no belligerent really wants to use. Fine. Yet I feel Star Trek shone brighter in episodes where the human element was explored, for instance “The Paradise Syndrome.” The latter features Kirk’s lengthy joyful interlude outside his captain’s role, his lapse in dealing with the rivalry created by his new marriage, and acknowledges through Salish that “primitive” folks are quite capable of figuring out who is or isn’t a deity.

Yes, and some people still think the Earth is flat... and the moon is made out of Gorgonzola cheese!

If you really think "The Paradise Syndrome" is the better episode of the two, then my friend, may I offer the advice that you need to cut back on the wacky weed.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Worse is that Decker's suicide is rendered pointless by the later successful use of the empty Constellation to destroy the machine, a small item which evades Kirk and Spock during their banter after the event.

It was Decker's suicide that gave Kirk and Spock the idea in the first place.

SPOCK: Sir, may I offer my condolences on the death of your friend. It is most regrettable.

[Constellation Auxiliary Control]

KIRK: It's regrettable that he died for nothing.

[Bridge]

SULU: Mister Spock, sensors indicate a minute drop in the machine's power emanations. Do you think the shuttlecraft explosion might have done some damage?

KIRK [OC]: What about that, Spock? Is it possible?

SPOCK: The drop in power is definite, Captain but negligible. The object is still pursing us, thereby causing us to drain our power reserve at a much greater rate.

A bit later:

KIRK: Spock, listen. Maybe Matt Decker didn't die for nothing. He had the right idea but not enough power to do it. Am I correct in assuming that a fusion explosion of ninety-seven megatons will result if a starship impulse engine is overloaded?

SPOCK: No, sir. Ninety-seven point eight three five megatons.

[Constellation Auxiliary Control]

KIRK: Ninety-seven point eight three five. Will it be powerful enough to destroy that thing out there?

[Bridge]

SPOCK: Negative, Captain. Its hull is pure neutronium. There is no known way of blasting through it.

[Constellation Auxiliary Control]

KIRK: Not through it, Spock, from inside it. Will it be enough?

[Bridge]

SPOCK: Insufficient data. I shall try to take further sensor readings.

Well said. The doomsday machine is one of the best and I will say it in the top tens episodes of trek. I even like the episode better then some of the movies. It has a insane Dekker, a ancient planet destroyer which the enterprise had try and fend off, dekkers suicide and of course Kirk slamming the constellation into the machine. The paradise syndrome was a entertaining episode but nowhere near what the doomsday machine was.

 

[Kor]

I fundamentally disagree with the premise of this thread.

Kor

 

[BillJ]

I fundamentally disagree with the premise of this thread.

+1

 

[FormerLurker]

"The Doomsday Machine", while it only had one guest star(day players not included), was one of the most powerful stories TOS told, and told with conviction. It was dramatic, entertaining, and poignant.

"The Paradise Syndrome" was dramatic, entertaining and poignant, but had less going for it otherwise. The most powerful performance was from the character who was considered weak(Salish). While the Enterprise scenes were meant to be cerebral, they often came off as boring. And they brought in a beautiful woman, and put her in one of the most modest costumes Star Trek ever had(Miramanee). I think some of this was meant to be counter-intuitive, but it was poorly executed.

 

[The Lensman]

Which is only my subjective but nonetheless considered opinion. Windom's performance as Commodore Decker isn't fully convincing: He doesn't come across as a traumatized man bent on amending his wrongs, say when he airily dismisses Spock's request that he vacate the captain's chair on the Enterprise toward the endgame of the drama. Decker's sudden assumption of command itself can be excused on artistic license grounds although high brass in actual modern navies would almost never do such a thing: Deferring to the senior officer on board who knows the ship and crew usually makes more sense. Worse is that Decker's suicide is rendered pointless by the later successful use of the empty Constellation to destroy the machine, a small item which evades Kirk and Spock during their banter after the event.

You clearly are not familiar with Moby Dick. Decker wasn't a "traumatized man bent on amending his wrongs,". Decker was a traumatized man bent on AVENGING his wrongs at all costs, even if it meant destroying another ship (the Enterprise) to do it. Initially he is allowed to take command of the ship due to rules and the fact that he is the only one with experience with the thing. The more that it becomes clear that he is revenge driven to the point of total recklessness, the more Spock is driven to remove him. This is the REAL conflict of the episode. Yeah, it's interesting to watch the big machine shoot lasers and stuff, but it's far more interesting watching Spock and Decker jockey for command of the Enterprise with move and counter move.

You know, drama.

Stories are built around conflict. Had Decker simply deferred command to Spock because he was the senior officer who knew the Enterprise better, then we would've just had another "man vs. killer robot" story. A story type that had been beaten to death before Star Trek was ever on the air.

 

[Melakon]

I fundamentally disagree with the premise of this thread.

+1

+2

 

[Poltargyst]

Um, yeah, Doomsday Machine has always been my favorite Star Trek episode, so I'm going to disagree with the OP too. Well done edge of your seat action.

 

[johnnybear]

Doomsday has always been one of my favourites too!
JB

 

[Maurice]

I was never a super big fan of the choices Windom made in his portrayal of Decker. Decker breaking up and sobbing sets the wrong tone for the character right off the bat. His later stony faced "I'm gonna kill that MF thing" should've been in force from the get go.

 

[Poltargyst]

He's dealing with the fact that his poor decision cost the lives of his whole crew. I think showing Decker sobbing on the brink of a nervous breakdown is entirely appropriate. Later on, he's had some treatment on the Enterprise and is feeling better so he goes into vengeance mode.

 

[Jonas Grumby]

I think the OP errs on two key points.

He [Decker] doesn't come across as a traumatized man bent on amending his wrongs...

Because that's not what he is. As The Lensman already pointed out above, Decker was a tramatized man obsessed with revenge. To not fully grasp that is to miss the driving force of the episode.

I tend to view Star Trek from a sociological perspective, as a morality play for the Cold War era.

While the doomsday machine itself is certainly an allegorical H-bomb (Kirk explicitly says so in the episode), is it possible you were trying so hard to squeeze the story into a Cold War parable that you didn't pay close enough attention to the interpersonal drama on board the ship, which is by far the main meat of the episode?

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I was never a super big fan of the choices Windom made in his portrayal of Decker. Decker breaking up and sobbing sets the wrong tone for the character right off the bat. His later stony faced "I'm gonna kill that MF thing" later should've been in force from the get go.

I'm not so sure about that. It was natural for Decker to break down when questioned about the fate of his crew--it was still fresh enough to hit him to the core. After that, he gradually moves from resignation (losing his command), to the concern /anger/obsession he would play out on the Enterprise.

 

[Maurice]

YMMV.

 

[Melakon]

I mostly liked Windom's work in the episode, but his early breakdown scene with Shatner was like they were seeing who could cut the thickest slice of ham.

YMMV

 

[T'Girl]

And they brought in a beautiful woman, and put her in one of the most modest costumes Star Trek ever had (Miramanee).

IMHO flaw that the parts of Miramanee and Salish were not cast with Native American actors.

Ahh the 1960's.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I was never a super big fan of the choices Windom made in his portrayal of Decker. Decker breaking up and sobbing sets the wrong tone for the character right off the bat. His later stony faced "I'm gonna kill that MF thing" should've been in force from the get go.

Windom played Decker too much like Humphrey Bogart's Captain Queeg from "The Caine Mutiny," right down to the nervous tick of shuffling the data cards like the Baoding balls Queeg rolled in his hands.

I've always wondered how Robert Ryan, who Spinrad wanted as Decker, would've played the role.