Realistic vs Luxury Crew Quarters
- Thread starter ZapBrannigan
- Start date
And if you were the only (or even the worst) example, that would be a great excuse.
I like sharing my research findings... after all, what is the point of gathering the information if not to share it. But the work needed to distill that information from raw data into something useful is time consuming. As I don't earn any money from any of this, ending the spread of bad info or worse theories is the only reward for my efforts... so it is frustrating when people I know (beyond just you) are resurrecting zombie theories (that is, theories that should have stayed dead and eat away at the brains/intelligence of those who engage them). Again (and it isn't just you), it is hard to waste energy on a nuanced explanation of things when the really basic stuff seems to be over people's heads.
When I see enough good people shooting down bad info and worse theories as fast as they are thrown up, I'll be happy to devote a ton of effort to bringing more information to the table.
To be honest I do think it's a coincidence, also perhaps not a very surprising on given the mathematics of the situation. In The Cage and WNMHGB the Enterprise saucer was basically 5 sections (dome, teardrop, upper saucer, disc, lower saucer). 5 sections are always going to factor up into 20 decks fairly well (and even 11 if you squash things in a bit). None of the windows are a perfect match to the decks in any case, just "close enough".
I've always thought the model maker put windows where they looked good esthetically, and not with any internal design in mind.
Originally there weren't supposed to be windows at all. Jefferies thought the idea was a bad one, but after seeing the 33 inch model when first finished (late November of 1964) ask that they be added to the design.
I can't point this out enough... Jefferies doesn't do random. He had already planned out the overall layout of the interior of the Enterprise at this point (for him, it was part of the redesign that increased the size to 947'), so he made a special trip to meet with Datin and added windows to the original drawings (of which there was only one copy, and Datin had it). The elements of the original plans on the second sheet of my reconstruction show the windows that Jefferies added at Roddenberry's request.
That having been said, how they appear on the plans and how they appeared on the model is slightly different (even between the two models), but the models were late and the builders were being rushed... because Roddenberry asked Jefferies to redesign the Enterprise as a larger vessel at the last minute.
I've been doing a reconstruction that fills in more of how the original plans would have looked (before the windows were added), but it is still a work in progress...
When the 11 foot model was altered to be lit, part of the limitations as to what and where windows could be was based on the internal structure of the 11 foot model. I've been documenting the model's real physical features and threw together a few diagrams as a reference for people interested in that type of stuff.
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The title of this thread always makes me think of the Four Yorkshiremen sketch
I can see four older Starfleet officers sitting around having that conversation
I can see four older Starfleet officers sitting around having that conversation
Didn't even have to click the link.
"You try and tell the young people today that, and they won't believe ya."
According to these plans, crews on the D-7 slept barracks style.
Not that these are official or anything, but they are an interesting idea.
And that "jungle gym" is among the most inspirational excuses for being so uninspired about what to put inside a Trek starship...
Barracks bunking is one way to go, but I have a soft spot for John M. Ford's alternative of keeping the Marines in cryosleep.
Timo Saloniemi
Barracks bunking is one way to go, but I have a soft spot for John M. Ford's alternative of keeping the Marines in cryosleep.
Timo Saloniemi
Michael McMaster was a Franz Joseph fan, and he sent FJ the Klingon plans expecting good feedback. But FJ felt like he was being ripped off, because his designs were largely just taken and transplanted into the Klingon ship.
I think Franz Joseph was the only technical drawing artist who made much money from Star Trek. Matt Jefferies apparently felt exploited by FJ. David Kimble put vast amounts of labor into his cutaway posters, and ended up feeling ripped off by the publisher.
I think Franz Joseph was the only technical drawing artist who made much money from Star Trek. Matt Jefferies apparently felt exploited by FJ. David Kimble put vast amounts of labor into his cutaway posters, and ended up feeling ripped off by the publisher.
You are probably right.
Still the twenty deck figure is there in the early writer's guide, which means someone on the production team was thinking of the ship in those terms and someone approved its inclusion. Twenty decks, and the eleven that replaced it, were part of the original thinking of the show. It is a valid line of inquiry to consider just how pervasive the values were and what decisions they might have informed.
After all, its not like I took a recently derived number, like 540 feet (1080/2, right?), and retroactively applied it to some mythical smaller TOS Enterprise and claimed it as a 1964 fact.
Or took deck heights from a 1977 Phase II blueprint and retroactively applied it to the TOS Enterprise and claimed it as a 1964 fact.
I've recently been musing over the First Federation ships from "The Corbomite Maneuver" and noticed that while Sulu calls the cube 107 m per edge, when we see it in visual effects in front of the Enterprise, it looks quite small. Yet, at the stated size, it should be bigger than saucer!
I got to wondering if maybe the twenty-deck thick mega-Enterprise was still in effect when they were planing the VFX for this one or if the effects company just made the images without worrying too much about it... or if they were even informed of any of these details in the first place? If the 947 foot figure was already cemented at this point (which would seem to be the case, at least for MJ) then how much did the Writer's Guide's much larger figure trickle into the production?
--Alex
I got to wondering if maybe the twenty-deck thick mega-Enterprise was still in effect when they were planing the VFX for this one or if the effects company just made the images without worrying too much about it... or if they were even informed of any of these details in the first place? If the 947 foot figure was already cemented at this point (which would seem to be the case, at least for MJ) then how much did the Writer's Guide's much larger figure trickle into the production?
--Alex
As it happens, I was flipping through my copy of The Making of Star Trek last night. Here's what it had to say about the crew quarters situation:
Senior officers are assigned quarters on an individual basis, and are not normally required to share their quarters. Their accommodations consist of a two-room complex, evenly divided between an outer work room and inner bedroom/living area.
Junior officers are assigned similar accommodations, but usually required to share them with one other fellow officer. The bedroom/living area therefore is correspondingly larger, while the outer work area is somewhat smaller.
But hey, Ensign Garrovick had his own quarters, so I don't know what to think.
Senior officers are assigned quarters on an individual basis, and are not normally required to share their quarters. Their accommodations consist of a two-room complex, evenly divided between an outer work room and inner bedroom/living area.
Junior officers are assigned similar accommodations, but usually required to share them with one other fellow officer. The bedroom/living area therefore is correspondingly larger, while the outer work area is somewhat smaller.
But hey, Ensign Garrovick had his own quarters, so I don't know what to think.
...The cube is also said to be 1,500 meters away, which doesn't match the visuals regardless of whether we assume a 100 m cube or a 300 m starship.
We can always plead perspective and relative positioning - the cube might be off to one side, due to Kirk wanting to keep the ship pointed at a potential escape direction rather than directly at the opponent. But it doesn't seem as if careful thinking would have gone into the visuals. There was supposed to be a "buoy" and it thus should be smaller than the "ship", and that's pretty much it.
Timo Saloniemi
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