Looking forward to this one. Congratulations on the new release Chris!
Spoilers ENT: Rise of the Federation: Uncertain Logic by C. L. Bennett Review Thread
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As soon as robotics and wealth were mentioned, I knew who this fellow was. And it is awesome!!! Great use of the character. Minor, but it works and makes sense.
I'm currently reading this book right now (I'm up to page 290) and whie the Vulcan story is really interesting, the scenes with the Deltans and Orion's are really feeling like some cheap Harlequin Romance novel, and I think they could've really been handled a lot better. The scenes don't feel like Trek scenes. I realize that in the past we have been told that both species are very sexual in their nature, but I think the scenes could've been handled differently.
For the record, I've never read a Harlequin Romance novel in my life. (Though when I was a kid, we had a black-and-white cat named Harlequin, whom my sister and I nicknamed Harlequin "Poopsie" Romance.) So I doubt I was trying to do what you think I was. I was trying to make a comment on sexuality as a positive emotional and social force, as opposed to the way the Orions abuse it as a means of exploitation. While I have nothing against a little sexiness for its own sake, my approach to writing the Deltans has always been from my perspective as a science fiction writer. If it's established that an alien culture has a specific quality, I want to analyze what that means about their social structure, behavior, philosophies, etc., and what its ramifications would be in their lives and their interactions with other beings. Deltans have always been painted as a highly sexual race, but nothing I read in the past ever really used that idea; they either touched on it as superficial titillation or avoided dealing with it altogether. I chose to take it and really do something with it, to explore it the same way authors have explored Vulcan logic or Klingon honor or Ferengi economics or whatever.
In particular, given what TMP established about the "oath of celibacy," and what the novelization and production notes established about the reasons for that oath -- the fact that Deltan sexuality could be dangerously overwhelming or addictive to humans -- it occurred to me to ask the question of how that danger was first discovered, and how the humans would react when it first happened. I felt there was an interesting story there.
In particular, given what TMP established about the "oath of celibacy," and what the novelization and production notes established about the reasons for that oath -- the fact that Deltan sexuality could be dangerously overwhelming or addictive to humans -- it occurred to me to ask the question of how that danger was first discovered, and how the humans would react when it first happened. I felt there was an interesting story there.
My copy has yet to arrive, though since I've received notice that it shipped a few days ago, I may well have it tomorrow.
Deltans, eh? I'm glad that the series is fleshing out races like Deltans, Saurians, the various Rigellians - races that will show up in TOS/Vanguard as part of the Federation. It's good to have a sense of how that relationship got started. Given my tendency to relate to these stories as parts of a larger whole, it's good to have a sense of the long-term developments and consequences of an alien people's appearance. In the same manner, I wish more 5-year-mission TOS stories would make their aliens-of-the-week familiar faces (however obscure) from TNG/DS9. Also, reading through the stories chronologically, when a member of one of these races shows up as a bit of colour in 23rd Century stories, we know who they are and where they came from. There's a satisfying sense of history and development. Of course, now my Chronological thread is WRONG because the Deltans' introduction took place earlier than Nassir's first appearance in "Almost Tomorrow".
Thank goodness I spoiled myself on a certain character's appearance in time.
I can rewrite history and retroactively insert his earlier appearance when I reach the appropriate episode. It sounds like his involvement makes a fair amount of sense, so I look forward to seeing how it plays out.
Deltans, eh? I'm glad that the series is fleshing out races like Deltans, Saurians, the various Rigellians - races that will show up in TOS/Vanguard as part of the Federation. It's good to have a sense of how that relationship got started. Given my tendency to relate to these stories as parts of a larger whole, it's good to have a sense of the long-term developments and consequences of an alien people's appearance. In the same manner, I wish more 5-year-mission TOS stories would make their aliens-of-the-week familiar faces (however obscure) from TNG/DS9. Also, reading through the stories chronologically, when a member of one of these races shows up as a bit of colour in 23rd Century stories, we know who they are and where they came from. There's a satisfying sense of history and development. Of course, now my Chronological thread is WRONG because the Deltans' introduction took place earlier than Nassir's first appearance in "Almost Tomorrow".
Thank goodness I spoiled myself on a certain character's appearance in time.
I can rewrite history and retroactively insert his earlier appearance when I reach the appropriate episode. It sounds like his involvement makes a fair amount of sense, so I look forward to seeing how it plays out.
^Speaking of Deltans and The Great Chronological Run-Through, I'm reminded of Ambassador Arlia, a minor Deltan character in Myriad Universes - A Less Perfect Union. As far as I can discern, she is one of the few characters in the novelverse from alternate quantum realities who does not have a counterpart in any prime reality story. I hope maybe one day a TOS author can pick up on her. After all, ALPU Kirk was xenophobic for a time, but we all know how Kirk Prime is with women. Then again, Arlia is Deltan.
^Speaking of Deltans and The Great Chronological Run-Through, I'm reminded of Ambassador Arlia, a minor Deltan character in Myriad Universes - A Less Perfect Union. As far as I can discern, she is one of the few characters in the novelverse from alternate quantum realities who does not have a counterpart in any prime reality story. I hope maybe one day a TOS author can pick up on her. After all, ALPU Kirk was xenophobic for a time, but we all know how Kirk Prime is with women. Then again, Arlia is Deltan.
I was reminded of one of the DTI agents, Ranjea, if I´m not mistaken. It´s been a while since I´ve read it. I liked the fact that Deltans were not only mentioned but actively involved in a novel
. It´s nice to see not only Klingons, Cardassians and Ferengi.
I love Amazon and use it when i need to, but keeping the brick & mortar stores open is a must! We should all do our part to keep them alive when we are able
I completely agree. Unfortunately, since I can no longer drive, I'm no longer able, so I'll have to leave that to you fine folks.
Oh, guess what my next Amazon purchase will be?
I try my best to use my local bookstore when poss but Amazon IS so shiny and convenient!
Pre-ordered from Simon&Schuster; it has yet to arrive.
Mine did indeed arrive today, and having gotten home from work I am now reading it. Good stuff so far.
I will of course post a rambling review once I've finished.
One thing I'll note now: I am very pleased to run into a certain character who I'd been wondering whether we'd meet.. Someone who we know once encountered Tobin Dax on Vulcan... and since this novel is set in large part on Vulcan and Tobin Dax is a prominent character in the series, I'd been hoping. Thor Damar, Gul Re'jal, various other members of the Central Command, rap your hands against the table in applause, for he has arrived! Iloja of Prim! 
I will of course post a rambling review once I've finished.
One thing I'll note now: I am very pleased to run into a certain character who I'd been wondering whether we'd meet.
. Someone who we know once encountered Tobin Dax on Vulcan... and since this novel is set in large part on Vulcan and Tobin Dax is a prominent character in the series, I'd been hoping. Thor Damar, Gul Re'jal, various other members of the Central Command, rap your hands against the table in applause, for he has arrived! Iloja of Prim! Mine did indeed arrive today, and having gotten home from work I am now reading it. Good stuff so far.
I will of course post a rambling review once I've finished.
One thing I'll note now: I am very pleased to run into a certain character who I'd been wondering whether we'd meet.
That's a really neat ds9 tie with Tobin Dax and the Cardassians mentioned in a Enterprise novel. I always wanted to see Tobin Dax and the Cardassians featured in an Enterprise novel at long last.Mine has not shipped.
Still in the warehouse. Hooked into the machine.
Well, I'm done. Quick, even for me, but then I was able to dedicate the evening to it.
Quick, even for me, but then I was able to dedicate the evening to it. First off, let me say again that I love the name “Ware”. On the surface it seems mundane and descriptive, almost blandly so, in keeping with the face they present to visitors, but of course it carries other implications, to the point that it essentially has an in-built scare chord and I can retire that joke. It also has the sense of “warehouse” both in the storage of material goods and of the American usage as in institution of inadequate care. Good wordplay there.
This was a pretty strong book. I'd say it was definitely a solid entry in the series. I was expecting it to be, since I like the way Christopher writes Vulcans, and the heavy Vulcan content therefore played to some of his strengths. The Vulcans were indeed quite delightful (in particular the Vulcan sense of humour; part biting, part drily observational, part amused at the absurdity of life, part unassuming arrogance and yet part self-deprecation). In terms of the main plot, it’s good to have some exploration of how the Vulcans are coping with what would be a rapid shift in cultural perspective even by human standards, yet alone a race with a lifespan twice as long and a more sedate rate of change over most of their history. The tone can get a little author tract-ee at times (sorry, Christopher), but that’s not an issue that affects my enjoyment. I liked the more... inward-looking feel of this one, it's a nice change of pace from the first two books. It did feel like a different sort of story. Perhaps that's partly because many of the ongoing arcs (Sauria, etc.) are absent or pushed to the side, but it's more than that. There's definitely a Vulcan serenity to this one, next to the happy Federation bustle of the first two. Appropriate for a return to politics on Desert Monastery Planet (even, if, admittedly, its status as such is part of what's uncertain here
).
I liked Zadok’s very plausible interpretation of recent history. In a sense, of course, it’s all true; Humans and Andorians did start working together and that undermined Vulcan’s power and prestige and set in motion a chain of events that resulted in the Syrranites taking control of the planet and subordinating Vulcan – to some degree – to a council of largely non-Vulcans. I appreciate the fact that the antagonists weren't caricatures (the best example of a similarly good portrayal elsewhere in Trek fiction might be the Andorian government in A Ceremony of Losses, but this was also a relief in presenting fear-pandering political figures as realistic and not overblown). I also liked the protagonists’ response as they listened to Zadok: Thanien’s alert manner of restrained excitement as he follows the speech and T’Pol’s detachment. That worked well; Giving T’Pol an Andorian apprentice, as such, is something I hope we see expanded further; their relationship is growing on me a lot now that Thanien’s "difficulty integrating" arc has run its course.
Some surprising faces showing up for this one. I was definitely surprised to read upthread that Akharin/Flint was involved, even as I saw how entirely logical it was. He was well portrayed here; I’ve become increasingly fond of him after the exposure he’s gotten in recent years (Cold Equations). Iloja of Prim was of course someone I was very much hoping we’d see, and he didn’t disappoint. His portrayal was in keeping with the fragments we’ve gotten in places like Taking Wing and his prefix quote in Olympus Descending. As an avowed Cardassian fan – they’re the richest, most well-defined and most affecting culture in the Trek ‘verse, in my opinion – I loved that the most important scene of the book centred on the Cardassian experience. (I've always thought that Vulcan was a good place for a Cardassian exile - culturally stoic, highly intelligent desert-dwellers who lay a unifying social philosophy over their original highly tribal tendencies; it describes both Cardassians and Vulcans). Then there’s V’Las, who I certainly wasn’t expecting. He’s not catatonic at all, then, he’s back to reclaim the boardroom. A satisfying surprise half way through the plot. He’s a Vulcan loyalist, too, which is certainly interesting (for whatever given value of Vulcan loyalist). Given that it’s V’Las and he twists everything to his current ambitions, it’s hard to tell what’s really going on in his head, or if he even keeps track of it. Still, he's big on Vulcan as the homeland both in his private POV and his rhetoric, so he's not identifying as Romulan. And he’s still out there, joining the ranks of the villains. As is Vabion, whom I also liked. He's going all Saren Arterius, it seems. (We've got quite a cast of villains, now, haven't we? No Garos or – sadly – Really Great Dictator this time, though both are mentioned. Even the Sisters are only barely involved. Devna gets another push on her eventual path to Elysia, though. Literally, I mean; she's going to Elysia).
Oh, and Soreth was there. Hi, Soreth. I almost, I'm ashamed to say, failed to remember who he was.
In terms of worldbuilding and the, well, the rise of the Federation, I enjoyed seeing the pieces brought into play as part of the backdrop. Deltans join the Saurians and Rigellians as notable political players around which the Federation works to establish its identity as an interstellar power. In addition, we had a Tiburonian doctor, the enmity between Denobulan and Antaran continuing to slowly thaw, and Arken having joined as the ninth member state. The pieces are in place so that a century down the line having these peoples all comfortably within the fold of the Federation is a natural progression. I really liked, and was pleasantly surprised by, the outcome of the initial Deltan contact; the cool parting, with the regret and anger and recriminations. I suppose it was inevitable – Humans had to learn about the dangers of Deltan contact somehow, and the Deltans are given to freely sharing themselves, so it was almost inevitable that something like this would happen. But it was almost refreshing to have a stumbling block that seemed to end the relationship before it started, and understandably so - and without anyone being particularly vilified, either for what occurred or for their reactions. It makes sense, and I like it. (Also, a comment from Tom Paris in one of the Voyager books now becomes a little amusing/wince-worthy).
I’m glad the Carreon are involved, too, even if its just a name-drop. I'm glad their status as the Deltans' arch-enemy stuck.
Speaking of species, I enjoy how Tobin Dax’s Joined Trill nature has been used in this series to inform his character, so that as well as being an endearing personality he’s also sufficiently alien and not just an awkward human with spots. The perspective on “changing identities” as a justification for his Starfleet design ideals in the first book was a good example, and I liked the implication here of his natural timidity being welded – Joined, if you will – to the host imperative to protect the symbiont. The tug-of-war between his cowering aversion to unnecessary danger and his cultural duty to learn and experience. Of course, that’s a recurring theme here - all the discussions about risk and “well, a child could fall down the stairs and die, you know?” Or you might nearly get blown up while in your mother’s belly and so the universe is disturbingly Spockless.
Poor Travis. He gets put through the wringer in this one, doesn’t he?
Onto the tediously pedantic cataloguing business: Ware space is known to us on the star charts as soon as the Tyrellians and the Balduk show up; we knew it was past Romulan and Vertian space, of course, but it’s always nice to have something to visualize. It’s interesting to see that the Balduks’ introduction to the setting is as helpful allies, albeit acting in outraged defence, as Balduk are prone to do. Balduk space must remain inviolate. No wonder they're so paranoid.
Andorian ship names! USS Andorian!Enterprise, USS Province on Andor, USS Musical gun, USS Horse-camel. Also one of them is named after something Arkenite, it seems.
This was a pretty strong book. I'd say it was definitely a solid entry in the series. I was expecting it to be, since I like the way Christopher writes Vulcans, and the heavy Vulcan content therefore played to some of his strengths. The Vulcans were indeed quite delightful (in particular the Vulcan sense of humour; part biting, part drily observational, part amused at the absurdity of life, part unassuming arrogance and yet part self-deprecation). In terms of the main plot, it’s good to have some exploration of how the Vulcans are coping with what would be a rapid shift in cultural perspective even by human standards, yet alone a race with a lifespan twice as long and a more sedate rate of change over most of their history. The tone can get a little author tract-ee at times (sorry, Christopher), but that’s not an issue that affects my enjoyment. I liked the more... inward-looking feel of this one, it's a nice change of pace from the first two books. It did feel like a different sort of story. Perhaps that's partly because many of the ongoing arcs (Sauria, etc.) are absent or pushed to the side, but it's more than that. There's definitely a Vulcan serenity to this one, next to the happy Federation bustle of the first two. Appropriate for a return to politics on Desert Monastery Planet (even, if, admittedly, its status as such is part of what's uncertain here
).I liked Zadok’s very plausible interpretation of recent history. In a sense, of course, it’s all true; Humans and Andorians did start working together and that undermined Vulcan’s power and prestige and set in motion a chain of events that resulted in the Syrranites taking control of the planet and subordinating Vulcan – to some degree – to a council of largely non-Vulcans. I appreciate the fact that the antagonists weren't caricatures (the best example of a similarly good portrayal elsewhere in Trek fiction might be the Andorian government in A Ceremony of Losses, but this was also a relief in presenting fear-pandering political figures as realistic and not overblown). I also liked the protagonists’ response as they listened to Zadok: Thanien’s alert manner of restrained excitement as he follows the speech and T’Pol’s detachment. That worked well; Giving T’Pol an Andorian apprentice, as such, is something I hope we see expanded further; their relationship is growing on me a lot now that Thanien’s "difficulty integrating" arc has run its course.
Some surprising faces showing up for this one. I was definitely surprised to read upthread that Akharin/Flint was involved, even as I saw how entirely logical it was. He was well portrayed here; I’ve become increasingly fond of him after the exposure he’s gotten in recent years (Cold Equations). Iloja of Prim was of course someone I was very much hoping we’d see, and he didn’t disappoint. His portrayal was in keeping with the fragments we’ve gotten in places like Taking Wing and his prefix quote in Olympus Descending. As an avowed Cardassian fan – they’re the richest, most well-defined and most affecting culture in the Trek ‘verse, in my opinion – I loved that the most important scene of the book centred on the Cardassian experience. (I've always thought that Vulcan was a good place for a Cardassian exile - culturally stoic, highly intelligent desert-dwellers who lay a unifying social philosophy over their original highly tribal tendencies; it describes both Cardassians and Vulcans). Then there’s V’Las, who I certainly wasn’t expecting. He’s not catatonic at all, then, he’s back to reclaim the boardroom. A satisfying surprise half way through the plot. He’s a Vulcan loyalist, too, which is certainly interesting (for whatever given value of Vulcan loyalist). Given that it’s V’Las and he twists everything to his current ambitions, it’s hard to tell what’s really going on in his head, or if he even keeps track of it. Still, he's big on Vulcan as the homeland both in his private POV and his rhetoric, so he's not identifying as Romulan. And he’s still out there, joining the ranks of the villains. As is Vabion, whom I also liked. He's going all Saren Arterius, it seems. (We've got quite a cast of villains, now, haven't we? No Garos or – sadly – Really Great Dictator this time, though both are mentioned. Even the Sisters are only barely involved. Devna gets another push on her eventual path to Elysia, though. Literally, I mean; she's going to Elysia).
Oh, and Soreth was there. Hi, Soreth. I almost, I'm ashamed to say, failed to remember who he was.
In terms of worldbuilding and the, well, the rise of the Federation, I enjoyed seeing the pieces brought into play as part of the backdrop. Deltans join the Saurians and Rigellians as notable political players around which the Federation works to establish its identity as an interstellar power. In addition, we had a Tiburonian doctor, the enmity between Denobulan and Antaran continuing to slowly thaw, and Arken having joined as the ninth member state. The pieces are in place so that a century down the line having these peoples all comfortably within the fold of the Federation is a natural progression. I really liked, and was pleasantly surprised by, the outcome of the initial Deltan contact; the cool parting, with the regret and anger and recriminations. I suppose it was inevitable – Humans had to learn about the dangers of Deltan contact somehow, and the Deltans are given to freely sharing themselves, so it was almost inevitable that something like this would happen. But it was almost refreshing to have a stumbling block that seemed to end the relationship before it started, and understandably so - and without anyone being particularly vilified, either for what occurred or for their reactions. It makes sense, and I like it. (Also, a comment from Tom Paris in one of the Voyager books now becomes a little amusing/wince-worthy).
I’m glad the Carreon are involved, too, even if its just a name-drop. I'm glad their status as the Deltans' arch-enemy stuck.
Speaking of species, I enjoy how Tobin Dax’s Joined Trill nature has been used in this series to inform his character, so that as well as being an endearing personality he’s also sufficiently alien and not just an awkward human with spots. The perspective on “changing identities” as a justification for his Starfleet design ideals in the first book was a good example, and I liked the implication here of his natural timidity being welded – Joined, if you will – to the host imperative to protect the symbiont. The tug-of-war between his cowering aversion to unnecessary danger and his cultural duty to learn and experience. Of course, that’s a recurring theme here - all the discussions about risk and “well, a child could fall down the stairs and die, you know?” Or you might nearly get blown up while in your mother’s belly and so the universe is disturbingly Spockless.
Poor Travis. He gets put through the wringer in this one, doesn’t he?
Onto the tediously pedantic cataloguing business: Ware space is known to us on the star charts as soon as the Tyrellians and the Balduk show up; we knew it was past Romulan and Vertian space, of course, but it’s always nice to have something to visualize. It’s interesting to see that the Balduks’ introduction to the setting is as helpful allies, albeit acting in outraged defence, as Balduk are prone to do. Balduk space must remain inviolate. No wonder they're so paranoid.
Andorian ship names! USS Andorian!Enterprise, USS Province on Andor, USS Musical gun, USS Horse-camel. Also one of them is named after something Arkenite, it seems.
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Which book?
I just went and checked. Unworthy. Paris jokes that the Deltans exaggerate the dangers to make themselves "more interesting". Although who knows why his smile was a knowing one?
First off, let me say again that I love the name “Ware”. ... It also has the sense of “warehouse” both in the storage of material goods and of the American usage as in institution of inadequate care. Good wordplay there.
I never even thought of that...
Yeah, when I found out what Mike Martin had established about V'Las in The Romulan War (which was such a throwaway line that I'd forgotten about it) I had to do a bit of comic book-style retconning so I could do the story I wanted.
I think I had the idea that he might be a Romulan even before I learned that Federation: The First 150 Years had established that, but I wasn't sure whether I wanted him to be Romulan or Vulcan. So I found a way to split the difference, and I think it was more interesting that way. Mainly, though, I didn't want to revisit the Romulans -- they were dealt with quite thoroughly in the first four post-finale books, and now they're out of the picture until Summon the Thunder and "Balance of Terror." So I wanted to acknowledge the Romulan influence in his past while making it clear that V'Las's story now is about Vulcan, not Romulus.
I had to look that name up. I don't think Vabion is quite so ruthless, though.
I thought it was high time he got a proper focus story, and given the events of "Dead Stop," it stands to reason that he'd have a lot invested in these events.
I don't think it was ever said that the flabbjellah was a gun, just a weapon. Looking at the photo of the TMP prop, it strikes me more as a sort of cudgel or truncheon. And The Tears of Eridanus is vague about just what it does, but characterizes it as useful in an environment that inhibits the use of energy weapons, implying that it isn't one.
And yes, Kinaph is meant to be an Arkenite name.
Also, one of the ships is the Trenkanshent sh'Lavan, named in honor of Thanien's old friend who was killed in A Choice of Futures. (I don't know what Tashmaji means in-universe. I basically named it for my old cat Natasha.)
Yeah, I have no idea what a flabbjellah is or does, so I just vagued it up. I think Dwellers in the Crucible refers to it having a blade, but I've no idea where that would be. I do really like what it communicates culturally about the Andorians, though; I love imagining all these hardened warriors playing their flabbjellahs together!
Oh, and I forgot: you made a gazelle joke. 
Excellent; those never get old (even if I actually quite like that speech). Also a good example of that Vulcan humour - and T'Pol's teasing of Archer, which was always a highlight of their friendship.
(I don't know what you have planned for him, but I have a nice image of him setting up shop somewhere and beaming out denouncements of the Federation for the next...however long he has).
Indeed. They're not really alike,
Perhaps Andorian music is simply awful, and swiftly cripples any foe with a sense of taste or rhythm.
I did wonder if sh'Lavan was someone we'd met, but I didn't make the connection. My Trek Lit trivia powers are weakening.
Perhaps Tashmaji is a great and fearsome animalistic force of Andorian mythology? Arbitrary in Her ways and yet committed to Her relationship with the Andorian people?
Excellent; those never get old (even if I actually quite like that speech). Also a good example of that Vulcan humour - and T'Pol's teasing of Archer, which was always a highlight of their friendship.Well, I'm glad you did. It always seemed to me that V'Las deserved better, as it were. And it shook things up wonderfully to have him walk back in. I was also surprised that he managed to make it out to fight another day.
(I don't know what you have planned for him, but I have a nice image of him setting up shop somewhere and beaming out denouncements of the Federation for the next...however long he has).
Indeed. They're not really alike,
it's just that Vabion's hopes to take control of the Ware reminded me a bit of Saren's hopes for Sovereign. Vabion is pragmatic, and ruthless in a measured sense in pursuit of a goal; Saren is pretty much ruthless for the sake of it sometimes. And Saren has a nasty, sadistic streak in him that Vabion doesn't. But then Vabion is a businessman and Saren is a literally-above-the-law space cop, so they're coming from rather different places.
Perhaps Andorian music is simply awful, and swiftly cripples any foe with a sense of taste or rhythm.
I did wonder if sh'Lavan was someone we'd met, but I didn't make the connection. My Trek Lit trivia powers are weakening.
Perhaps Tashmaji is a great and fearsome animalistic force of Andorian mythology? Arbitrary in Her ways and yet committed to Her relationship with the Andorian people?
I named a high-speed courier ship after Tasha because she was an incredibly fast runner. She just rocketed everywhere. I called it "warp factor Tasha."
My copy just arrived. I should start it tomorrow.