The Walking Dead Season 5

[TREK_GOD_1]

I wonder if Deanna's rejection of the casserole and burning of the sympathy card is a symbol that she's not buying into Carol's June Cleaver shtick?

It would be too convenient when she knows nothing about Carol. Even Gabriel has limited or no experience with...let's call it "the best of" Carol. I think it would lean toward realism for Deanna to reject the casserole as a result of buying into Gabriel's chat / a gut reaction to anyone connected to the group she feels is responsible for her son's death.

 

[Velocity]

Something's rotten in paradise when people know the doctorlush is beating his family and they turn a blind eye. I wonder about the older boy, though. Is he oblivious or what? You'd think he would try to protect his mother or at least his little brother. Sam seems to have turned to Carol for protection. Jessie seems to be interested in Rick or at least she isn't protesting too much. Ah, there's something about a man in uniform.

 

[Caligula]

Was I the only one wondering where the other 98 red balloons are?

 

[auntiehill]

^

After watching that scene on "The Talking Dead," I look forward to Carol's "conversation" with the wife-beating Doc. Should he be afraid of Rick? Probably not. Should he be afraid of Carol? Oh, fuck yeah.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

After watching that scene on "The Talking Dead," I look forward to Carol's "conversation" with the wife-beating Doc. Should he be afraid of Rick? Probably not. Should he be afraid of Carol? Oh, fuck yeah.

Great clip, but I feel that is going to backfire on Carol. That, or Tara (who is recovering in Pete's house or office) will pay a price for everyone else.

 

[Jax]

We are heading to a civil war between ASZ and the group itself. Rick needs more self control but his core arguement is correct, the ASZ leadership is flawed and unit for the new world. People like Pete and the coward shit that got Noah killed need to be executed as they will let others die or even kill for there own personal gain at the expense of the group.

I will assume many of our group will side with Rick and take ASZ by force but at great personal cost. Sasha and Carol are dead for me along with Tara and Michonne will be forced out of ASZ for siding against the group. Gabriel is a 50/50 toss up. I also expect Daryl and his buddy (who will die) to find the people behind the W signs and set up the enemy of season 6. Also I wonder will Morgan finally reach the group? and possibly save Rick in turn?

 

[kitik]

Noticably missing this week was Maggie. There's obviously going to be some sort of action or plans from her after overhearing what Gabriel said to Deanna last week.

Everything Rick said at the end of the episode was was pretty much right, the only problem is that he was waving a gun around like a lunatic while doing so. For all the talk about twists and surprises, I have to say that when Michonne popped up and clocked him, I shouted a loud "whoa" at the tv. That surprised the heck out of me.

So I just caught up on the last 10 pages of this thread. Funny to read the usual outrageous theories after knowing what had already happened in the last 2 episodes. I'll admit that I suscribe to a few theories occasionally. I'm still not 100% certain about Enid, but she sure seemed like a real, legit, decent person tonight. So now I hope she's a good guy and will stick around next season. Carl needs a friend.

Regarding all the talk about Father Gabriel over the last 10 pages, one poster made a really good point. He had ZERO contact with any other human beings for something like 18-24 months. The dude has simply lost it. That type of solitude, mixed in with being surrounded by monsters trying to eat you, can easily be called a living hell (especially considering his sins at the start of the outbreak), and would legitimately drive most of us normal folks insane.

Regarding the discussion from about 8-9 pages ago about how its been a bad season for black characters on the show, I liked the scene tonight of Michonne, Sasha, and Rosita out in the woods killing off a whole ton of walkers. Not only three persons of a minority persuasion, but 3 totally ass-kicking females on top of that. (On the subject, Glenn counts as a minority too, right?)


Another interesting discussion was the talk about whether Deanna would have any sort of plans for a jail or house arrest. Interestingly, her solution was to simply go straight to exile, which as we know would be equivalent to death for most of the weak folks in Alexandria. Even more interesting though is that it seems that Rick and Carol don't even believe in exile anymore. Anyone could come back later as a threat, so it seems like their preference is to execute anyone they want to get rid of.

 

[Mojochi]

I get a strong feeling that headlong into the drama about what to do with Rick, Sasha's storyline, & Daryl & Aaron's discoveries will all come home to roost. Before Rick can be effectively ousted by the townies, He'll pull a Carol & dig everyone's ass out of the fire or something

I don't know how it will come to pass, but basically, Rick ain't going nowhere, despite what it looks like right now

Glad to have the wife beater story fully unraveled. It almost seems like Carol did that to Rick on purpose. & seriously, they couldn't come up with a better name than Enid?

 

[DarthTom]

Agree with what most people said, Rick is basically right but the way he's trying to sell his message - Alexandria natives aren't buying.

One thing that rang kind of off is Rick and Pete's brawl. Rick a trained police officer who has basically turned into a savage was essentially even in a fight with a drunk surgeon? WTF. Didn't seem reasonable.

 

[Ryan8bit]

I don't know how it will come to pass, but basically, Rick ain't going nowhere, despite what it looks like right now

Yeah, it wouldn't make sense for him to leave really. I don't think several of the others would just let him go, and for real life reasons it doesn't make sense for Rick to just leave. He likely will pull a Carol even if he does leave.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

We are heading to a civil war between ASZ and the group itself. Rick needs more self control but his core arguement is correct, the ASZ leadership is flawed and unit for the new world. People like Pete and the coward shit that got Noah killed need to be executed as they will let others die or even kill for there own personal gain at the expense of the group.

Rick is wrong--for the very same reason the security at all cost / "never again" philosophy marched Shane, Woodbury and post-invader Terminus to guaranteed doom. Rick is no absolute authority or expert on survival. ASZ survived the same two years of the ZA--but better than Rick's group.

I still believe the hierarchy of ASZ is not a pack of lambs some seem to think, as they are not isolated from an entire countryside full of walkers, and I am not convinced Deanna knows nothing about the Wolves.

Rick had no business trying to force Pete out of his home, when Deanna had not arrived at any conclusion. Be certain, no one supports domestic violence, but Rick's hot-in-the-pants obsession pushed him into a potentially lethal situation...for any of his group, including Judith...

Apparently, he's learned nothing from Shane's "not built for this world" slippery slope.

I will assume many of our group will side with Rick and take ASZ by force but at great personal cost. Sasha and Carol are dead for me along with Tara and Michonne will be forced out of ASZ for siding against the group. Gabriel is a 50/50 toss up. I also expect Daryl and his buddy (who will die) to find the people behind the W signs and set up the enemy of season 6. Also I wonder will Morgan finally reach the group? and possibly save Rick in turn?

If the preview is any indicator (and not misdirection for an unexpected outcome), Carol might be in trouble. What kind is anyone's guess. Both Reedus and McBride are among the guests on next week's season finale of Talking Dead, and Hurd promised the finale would spill more than walker blood, so who knows if that is a hint.

One thing that rang kind of off is Rick and Pete's brawl. Rick a trained police officer who has basically turned into a savage was essentially even in a fight with a drunk surgeon? WTF. Didn't seem reasonable.

False conflict. Unless characters like Pete and the Governor received some kind of training, both should not have gained an edge in fights with Rick. I know in order to ramp up the tension, Rick cannot be a knockout artist, but it is completely unbelievable for him to be on the losing end to a blustery dictator and an alcoholic doctor.

Rick's most believable fights: Shane (both trained police officers) and Joe (still injusred, but acting in a moment).

 

[DarthTom]

Rick had no business trying to force Pete out of his home, when Deanna had not arrived at any conclusion. Be certain, no one supports domestic violence, but Rick's hot-in-the-pants obsession pushed him into a potentially lethal situation...for any of his group, including Judith...

It's interesting that Deanna - I always want to call her Danielle from her role in Law and Order as Danielle Melnick - has come to terms with at least some harsh realities of the outside world. she's willing to tolerate a wife abuser so they can have a town Doctor. Rick's solution is to kill him which presumably in some regards would be worse for the community - not Jessie though - in terms of having a medical specialist.

 

[Scout101]

Real doctor is a powerful chip in a apocalypse. I'd think somewhat less important in a ZA, however, as less things come up. These people are generally safe within the walls (or had been to date), and when they're hurt outside, generally bitten and dead/zombies. Especially with their established behavior of leaving people behind, I wouldn't think there's a ton of need for a surgeon. people are either safe or dead in their setup.

But yeah, Rick lost his shit and hurt his position. Has the right point, but wrong presentation. He needed to further his talk with Deanna outside at the cemetery. Explain that their people don't know shit, and can't survive like this, which she was acknowledging. From there, he should have said he's taking a bigger role and training them up, and shit like the Doctor wasn't going to fly anymore. Get with the program or get dead.

And he's right on about exile, it's a death sentence, but more dangerous in that they could cause other trouble before dying, either on their own or by attracting others that are dangerous. If you're going to exile someone, have the fortitude to actually execute them yourselves. they're dead either way (especially the ASZ folks), so do it in a way that's compassionate and protects the rest of the community.

Instead, he's a raving lunatic with a gun, rolling around bloody in the street. Shocking he didn't get a lot of converts there...

 

[DarthTom]

And he's right on about exile, it's a death sentence, but more dangerous in that they could cause other trouble before dying, either on their own or by attracting others that are dangerous. If you're going to exile someone, have the fortitude to actually execute them yourselves. they're dead either way (especially the ASZ folks), so do it in a way that's compassionate and protects the rest of the community.

Instead, he's a raving lunatic with a gun, rolling around bloody in the street. Shocking he didn't get a lot of converts there...

If you recall at one time, Rick's solution was exile as well. He and several in the group then were opposed to executing Randall - save Shane who did execute him - so it's not surprising that the members of this community lack the stomach to perform executions. And this was with them [Ricks Group on Herschel's farm] having a lot more experience with the walkers than the Alexandria folks currently do.

Also, Sasha's PTSD will obviously prove to be very valuable when the shit hits the fan on the season finale.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

It's interesting that Deanna - I always want to call her Danielle from her role in Law and Order as Danielle Melnick - has come to terms with at least some harsh realities of the outside world. she's willing to tolerate a wife abuser so they can have a town Doctor. Rick's solution is to kill him which presumably in some regards would be worse for the community - not Jessie though - in terms of having a medical specialist.

Real doctor is a powerful chip in a apocalypse. I'd think somewhat less important in a ZA, however, as less things come up. These people are generally safe within the walls (or had been to date), and when they're hurt outside, generally bitten and dead/zombies. Especially with their established behavior of leaving people behind, I wouldn't think there's a ton of need for a surgeon. people are either safe or dead in their setup.

A doctor is still vital. At the prison, Hershel only had a certain amount of knowledge--and that was largely restricted to animals. I think he was good, but damn lucky in saving Carl's life. In Lori's case, a real doctor might have presented more options for a woman who thought she needed a c-section, and certainly provide a greater level of health for the residents.

And he's right on about exile, it's a death sentence, but more dangerous in that they could cause other trouble before dying, either on their own or by attracting others that are dangerous.

He only gets that now--but had no trouble sending Carol out in the wild, and his opinion on her survival skills...or the cold suggestion she would find others does not justify it.

If you're going to exile someone, have the fortitude to actually execute them yourselves. they're dead either way (especially the ASZ folks), so do it in a way that's compassionate and protects the rest of the community.

Instead, he's a raving lunatic with a gun, rolling around bloody in the street. Shocking he didn't get a lot of converts there...

The problem is that he's hard selling Gabriel's confession. Aiden died while out with Rick's "destroyers," and now Rick was in a bloody, near deadly fight with a man--above all else because of his lust interest. Even if he did not rant with a gun, his forcing a worldview as a newcomer--essentially going right back to the so-called Ricktator behavior from the end of season 2. That makes him a violent, screaming threat to a community which successfully survived the ZA all along, while every Rick-commanded outpost has fallen.

Some might say each fell thanks to Rick's mismanagement in key situations.

 

[Scout101]

He only gets that now--but had no trouble sending Carol out in the wild, and his opinion on her survival skills...or the cold suggestion she would find others does not justify it.

I'll say yes, but it was a different situation. Kinda depends whether it's a violent separation or not. While he didn't think Carol could live with the group anymore, he trusted her skills enough to believe he wasn't executing her in that situation; she'd either do ok or find another group to latch onto. And again, having known her, he trusted her to not be 'mad' over the separation, and to not lead walkers towards the camp, or spin up the new group to come attack the prison and try to get revenge or anything.

Different with the doc, or others that may be exiled in this circumstance. They're soft, so zombie food. or they'll be taken by another group, and likely sell out ASZ as a means of trying to save their own hide. Not really strong enough to lead an assault themselves, but likely to be looking for revenge, so won't hesitate to sell out ASZ to someone that could, and wants what they have.

That's the difference I see, and how Rick can argue for execution while having used exile himself in the past.

 

[Admiral2]

We are heading to a civil war between ASZ and the group itself. Rick needs more self control but his core arguement is correct, the ASZ leadership is flawed and unit for the new world. People like Pete and the coward shit that got Noah killed need to be executed as they will let others die or even kill for there own personal gain at the expense of the group.

Wow, I was gonna jump in but this pretty much says my piece for me.

So i'll just go with "cool episode."

I'm gonna disagree about Carol though (of course). I can't wait to see her waving that knife at Porch Dick, and I thought that tiny smile she had when Rick was laying the smackdown on PD was priceless.

 

[propita]

^

After watching that scene on "The Talking Dead," I look forward to Carol's "conversation" with the wife-beating Doc. Should he be afraid of Rick? Probably not. Should he be afraid of Carol? Oh, fuck yeah.

It was pretty good on the preview.

And, what Carol threatened Sam with? That’s what happened to that woman Daryl and Aaron found....

 

[Trekker4747]

Everything Rick said at the end of the episode was was pretty much right, the only problem is that he was waving a gun around like a lunatic while doing so. F

Yeah, overall and in concept Rick is "right" and has a point that the Alexandrians are all-up in themselves and don't realize the dangers of this world. But ranting about it like a lunatic while waving a gun isn't a good way to do it.

And, in all support of him in the fight, he *was* doing his jobs and protecting a woman who was being abused by her husband -without any noticeable bruises on injuries on her. A thing that Deanna seemed content to more-or-less let slide/ignore. I wonder if some will side with Rick/Our Group on this issue. Notably the guy who touted Abraham's behavior at the construction site seemed to be agreeing with some of Rick's comments during his little rant. The grenade knocked Tara out, when she comes-to I wonder how much -if any- support she can give for Our Group and what she can say about the behaviors of the Alexandrians on the run.

And, I'm now confused about something. When we first met Deanna she said she was really good at reading people, to the point she sorta-joked about going on poker-tours should her career in politics not take. So if she's so good at reading people and seeing through lies or whatever how is she doesn't see through Dipshit's falsehoods about what happened on the run and see Glenn's honesty? (I assume she talked to Glenn. doing so would only make sense. Not to mention talking to Eugene who could offer some insight on what he saw at the revolving door and about Dipshit being all for wanting to run rather than save the survivors at the warehouse.)

Some things do not add up here and I just wonder how it is all going to come out through the end. I know more-or-less where things go in Alexandria in the comics and I wonder what the show will do to make that happen and if it'll happen in the finale or not until next season. .... In October. Ugh!

I miss Michonne using her sword. I wasn't strictly counting, but I'm pretty sure Michonne fired more bullets than a handgun magazine usually has.

I'll say yes, but it was a different situation. Kinda depends whether it's a violent separation or not. While he didn't think Carol could live with the group anymore, he trusted her skills enough to believe he wasn't executing her in that situation; she'd either do ok or find another group to latch onto. And again, having known her, he trusted her to not be 'mad' over the separation, and to not lead walkers towards the camp, or spin up the new group to come attack the prison and try to get revenge or anything.

Different with the doc, or others that may be exiled in this circumstance. They're soft, so zombie food. or they'll be taken by another group, and likely sell out ASZ as a means of trying to save their own hide. Not really strong enough to lead an assault themselves, but likely to be looking for revenge, so won't hesitate to sell out ASZ to someone that could, and wants what they have.

That's the difference I see, and how Rick can argue for execution while having used exile himself in the past.
__________________

Also, when he exiled Carol he let her go with a car that was fully loaded with supplies and likely survival gear. He also knows she has the skills to survive in the world full of walkers.

When they were set to exile Randal him and Shane were set to dump Randal in a parking lot with only himself and crappy little knife for protection. Loftier exile plans seemed intent to give him some meager supplies but we'd still be talking about a teenager/young man without much world-readiness (and this was pretty "early" into the apocalypse too.)

Exiling Randal and exiling Carol were two very, very different things. Carol was exiled by Rick but in a manner to give her the strongest possible chances of surviving on her own or until she joined another group. They way they planned to exile Randal, and to another degree the prisoners, they were death sentences since they were sending unskilled people out into the world with out any means of real survival.

Seems Deanna does the same with those she exiles, particularly since the people in Alexandria haven't dealt with the apocalypse much the last couple years so are just as "green" at it as Randal and the prisoners were during their potential exiles.

In regards to Rick not having a "point" when it comes to Alexandria not being fit to survive in this world given their determination to stick to society when they *have* survived this long, this sort of forgets a few points.

First of all, we know there's a lot of dangers out there and not just the walkers. We know there's a *huge* danger out there that not even our main characters are fully aware of. So Alexandria is on very, very borrowed time. They've been lucky. Their survival has nothing to do with how they're running things, they didn't even have the guard tower manned at all times. They've been lucky, nothing else. Also, it was heavily implied the D.C./Alexandria area got a pretty heavy evacuation before the shit really hit the fan, and when it began to people were diverted to the ASZ. So in addition to being lucky they're just not in area much filled with many walkers or rival groups. But they're on borrowed time.

Again, that they're still their is all on luck, not skill. Especially since we've seen how they handle doing runs and gather supplies. One *does* wonder before our group showed up how common it was to lose people on runs or extra-Alexandria missions. If ROTC Dipshit and Other Dipshit were so naive about things, how many people did they lose on runs but kept his position due to who his mom was? How many people were lose on runs/scavenging missions when apparently the SOP was to leave a person trapped by walkers behind?

I really wonder if Deanna 100% realizes the problems in her community.

 

[davejames]

One thing that rang kind of off is Rick and Pete's brawl. Rick a trained police officer who has basically turned into a savage was essentially even in a fight with a drunk surgeon? WTF. Didn't seem reasonable.

Well to be fair Pete's not just a drunk, but an abusive drunk who also appeared to be a decent match physically with Rick (who lets remember is not the buffest dude around). And it's not exactly unheard of for trained police officers to still get their asses kicked by drunken or high criminals.

Plus Rick wasn't exactly in a professional state of mind anyway. He was clearly very emotional and seemed to almost relish getting in a vicious, bloody brawl with the guy.

Rick is wrong--for the very same reason the security at all cost / "never again" philosophy marched Shane, Woodbury and post-invader Terminus to guaranteed doom. Rick is no absolute authority or expert on survival. ASZ survived the same two years of the ZA--but better than Rick's group.

Well as Glenn says, they survived mostly because they got incredibly damn lucky. The walls went up early and they apparently (and miraculously) never had to deal with the stream of marauders, cannibals, or governor-types Rick and his group have had to deal with.

By all rights ASZ should have been overrun or burned down to the ground in the first few weeks of the apocalypse.