How do we get to the Star Trek future?

[Doom Shepherd]

I also have no objection to medically-approved euthanasia, so if I ever get to the point where I'm too senile or weak to be of any use to anyone, I'll gladly consider a more direct form of volunteering at or near that time.

Problem I have with that philosophy is it could come to be seen as a societal obligation. When you get to a certain age, or become infirm beyond a certain level, then you would feel a responsibility to off yourself.

And of course, Star Trek did an episode on exactly this.
(And Asimov wrote a book in which "The Sixty" was a major plot point.)

 

[HIjol]

I also have no objection to medically-approved euthanasia, so if I ever get to the point where I'm too senile or weak to be of any use to anyone, I'll gladly consider a more direct form of volunteering at or near that time.

Problem I have with that philosophy is it could come to be seen as a societal obligation. When you get to a certain age, or become infirm beyond a certain level, then you would feel a responsibility to off yourself.

And of course, Star Trek did an episode on exactly this.
(And Asimov wrote a book in which "The Sixty" was a major plot point.)

Or, become a Runner, and fear the Sandman.

Kinda puts a new twist on that old "Sandman Lullaby"




To the tune of, "The Sandman" lullaby

Here comes the Sandman
Creeping so softly
Drawing a bead on a Runner or two

'Cause they've aged out their stay
And they must go away
So some more can have Nirvana

So go to sleep, my Last Days
Ride the Carrousel
'cause Logan 5 is coming
They lied, no Renew-w-al

The Life-Clock Crytsal's ticking
Soon you won't be a'living
You wont see Sanctuary
Nor will you be...Renewed

 

[Nerys Myk]

According to the discussions, Star Trek is very little about space travel. I should have known!

I like the comment about 'we need a surak', maybe I agree - oh wait, smiling is not allowed!

Those comments aren't far from wrong. Star Trek isn't about space or the future. It might be set there, but that is just a backdrop to tell stories about the present. Some of the later shows lost that and began to tell stories about Star Trek in a very self referential way.

 

[Cyke101]

According to the discussions, Star Trek is very little about space travel. I should have known!

Well, we would have to get our house in order first. That's not to say we outright abandon space tech until we make a utopia (because the last few decades have proven that we can indeed work on improving Earth and space exploration simultaneously), but rather that if we want to make friends with other alien species, we should improve ourselves, too.

I think Enterprise handled the backstory's concept pretty well, though I don't necessarily agree with the method or how the message was delivered. It still took decades after the Phoenix for Earth to become really ready for human exploration of deep space for a number of reasons. I just wish it wasn't the Vulcans who put some sort of exploration blockade on them; space programs, like the rest of Earth, depends on evolution.

 

[Makarov]

Some Trek races seem to enjoy anger and violence... Klingons and that one that Wesley insults at the academy. Modern day humans might be able to fit right in without becoming total pacifists. Then you have the Ferengi who do just fine while purely focusing on profit.

So we can make it into the Trek world, maybe more like those other species.

 

[IrishNero]

Contrary to all of these projections, perhaps we'll just go underground and build tunnels and cities there.

 

[uniderth]

I think we would need to define what "Star Trek Future" means. Are we talking TNG, Kirk's era, or earlier? Are was wanting the timelines to run as parallel as possible. If that is the case most of us will be either old or dead by the time warp drive is invented in 2063. The Star Trek future for our lifetimes is very grim.

Or are we looking for a compressed timeline where we reach ENT, Kirk, or TNG era within fifty years?

Alternatively we could skip the timeline and try and build a specific era right now. For example we would try and build the TNG era and not even bother with any of the earlier eras. If the star ships as depicted in Star Trek are possible or a close facsimile then we would build the Enterprise D without having any A, B, or C.

I think defining what we want first, is the most important step.

 

[urbandefault]

Who gets to decides that you're too senile to live? I'll volunteer for that one.

Well, that's not a remotely creepy thing to write; why do you ask?

In case you're not aware, senility rarely just strikes out of the blue. If I show signs of becoming so, I'll gladly take measures to appoint someone trustworthy and qualified to consider the prospect of my eventual euthanasia. And if I were in some freak accident that left me comatose tomorrow, with little to no hope of recovery, I'd trust my parents' judgment on when to pull the plug.

Yes, I am very well aware of the horrors of dementia and Alzheimer's, thanks for asking.

And if I were designated to decide when you were too senile to live, you wouldn't have to worry about the plug being pulled too soon. I would not allow it to happen. Even if I'm given the responsibility, it's not my call to say when you die. Like it or not, on my watch you're going to live until the good Lord calls you home.

So I'll just restrain my urge to be my cranky old fart self here, and just offer a laurel--and hearty handshake. :P

 

[HIjol]

And, we are gonna need this:

"Look, all I'm asking, is for you to just have the tiniest bit of vision. You know, to just sit back for one minute and look at the big picture. To take a chance on something that just might end up being the most profoundly impactful moment for humanity, for the history... of history." Ellie Arroway/Carl Sagan, 1997, "Contact"

Also, a LOT of consistant funding for places lots of people do not like to see our precious money go:

*Theoretical Partical Physics
*Pure Research
*Large Machines that 14 or 15 people on the planet (sorta) understand
*Math and Sciences and Propulsions and Mechanics and Alloys and Chemistries and Formulations that run the Gamut from just starting to be understood to barely being conceived of to not yet known.

And all of those areas, and more will need that funding for Generations.

Please, please, Humanity...Make It So!

 

[wildsulu]

Ellie Arroway/Carl Sagan, 1997, "Contact"[/I]

Why didn't you vote for Seti? Some of the legit scientists who work at such institutes/departments say that finding alien life will change humanities outlook on life and ourselves. I think that makes sense. It may not bring peace on earth but at least we'll realize we have much more in common with each other than there are differences. I also think Seti has a chance of succeeding: Somewhere since the 2000's Seti has received some significan funding and also current computers are getting very fast and radiotelescopes very big, expanding the search with magnitudes.

But I also disagree with you and the other people who voted for science. In many scientific fields we can already perform minor miracles. But there´s still a lot of misery, war and distrust on earth. Theoretical physics, face transplants or SpaceX is not going to change that: in the mean times nothing changes in places of war, tyranny or exploitation. People themselves have to make the world a better place in some fundamental way.

 

[IrishNero]

I used to do the 'Seti at home' thing; where you'd download a program and allow them to use your PC's spare time to compress data downloaded from radio telescopes all over the world. I wanted to be part of the search. I figured it would be pretty awesome to become Internationally famous for discovering life outside of our own system while I was taking a break from playing Doom (or whatever at the time).

Thing is, There's so much data to process and so many systems doing it, being the one to discover intelligent life would be a bit like winning the lottery about 50 times in a row, and who knows if they were actually tracking who was processing what... I wonder if they're still doing that. They probably are...

The larger problem is that, although we may romanticize the idea of making contact with other intelligent species ala Star Trek, there is roughly an equal chance that any intelligent life we contact may be a bit more insect-like; cold, calculating and unsympathetic to us. Stephen Hawking recently warned of this. But at the same time, it's part of human nature to explore. We can't isolate ourselves forever.

I once read that the surest 'proof' that there is intelligent life 'out there'....is that they've never tried to contact us.

 

[wildsulu]

heheh

I agree that Star Trek has a rather romanticized portrayal of aliens (and anthropocentric). But given all the (roughly) earth-sized exoplanets that have been discovered, it would be really strange if none of them has life.

If you use Seti at home with your current computer it probably does a 1000 times more work compared to the Doom era. Hm, I should probably install it myself...

Even if we only received 1 message from 70,000 lightyears away, saying "pieces of shit are exterminated", or ... "100 tonnes of gold", or just a series of numbers with certain properties. Wouldn't that have a big impact?

 

[IrishNero]

You are probably right. I should download it again myself. Perhaps the first message I get is that there is a hundred tons of latinum that's buried not for from my house. -Not that we'd have any use for it.

 

[Gaith]

Even if I'm given the responsibility, it's not my call to say when you die. Like it or not, on my watch you're going to live until the good Lord calls you home.

Well, you've just disqualified yourself from being my pick in this regard, as I'm a firm believer in sensible, humane euthanasia, unencumbered by superstitious doctrines. I appreciate your forthrightness and honesty; handshake accepted.

And, we are gonna need this:

"Look, all I'm asking, is for you to just have the tiniest bit of vision. You know, to just sit back for one minute and look at the big picture. To take a chance on something that just might end up being the most profoundly impactful moment for humanity, for the history... of history." Ellie Arroway/Carl Sagan, 1997, "Contact"

A nice quote, which could absolutely be applied to preserving our planetary biodiversity before it becomes forever poorer and narrower. Notice, please, that Arroway was asking for a tiny bit of money for some large satellite dishes; she wasn't asking to try to design and build FTL spaceships or terraform Mars or some crap before even hearing mere radio signals from space.

 

[T'Girl]

Some of the legit scientists who work at such institutes/departments say that finding alien life will change humanities outlook on life and ourselves.

Did not Steven Hawkins say that this was a really bad idea?

People themselves have to make the world a better place in some fundamental way.

Which is happening, but it's happening incrementally over time and in a patchwork of regions, not globally at the same time.

Also, a LOT of consistant funding for places lots of people do not like to see our precious money go

People don't like public taxpayer money going there, private funding is fine. One of the problems in terms of public perceptions is money for physics come out of the same public budget as studying the sex life of the yellow banana slug. People can't see any real purpose in sending a probe to Pluto, or figuring out why the universe expanses at it current rate, the information obtained is simply too esoteric. Medical research and new advancements in metallurgy and chemistry ... this they can understand, this will benefit them and their children.

The Hadron collider, not so much.

It's popular to say people just need to give "just a little bit more," except that a little bit more was reached and passed decades ago.

 

[urbandefault]

Even if I'm given the responsibility, it's not my call to say when you die. Like it or not, on my watch you're going to live until the good Lord calls you home.

Well, you've just disqualified yourself from being my pick in this regard, as I'm a firm believer in sensible, humane euthanasia, unencumbered by superstitious doctrines. I appreciate your forthrightness and honesty; handshake accepted.

But you missed the larger point: "you wouldn't have to worry about the plug being pulled too soon."

What if, just as the lethal dose was pushed, you had a moment of lucidity and sat up shouting WAIT!

Too late, sorry. Just be quiet and die so we can get on with things.

Nope, that's not our decision to make. Not unless there's no evidence of brain activity and machines are the only thing keeping your body alive.

Not a big fan of euthanasia, as you might have guessed.

 

[wildsulu]

finding alien life will change humanities outlook on life

Did not Steven Hawkins say that this was a really bad idea?

I'm sure he said that broadcasting to aliens was a bad idea. Seti is mostly just listening to signals

People themselves have to make the world a better place in some fundamental way.

Which is happening, but it's happening incrementally over time and in a patchwork of regions, not globally at the same time.

Since you're an optimist, when do you think 'united Terra' will be a reality. Come one, make a guess just for fun

 

[BillJ]

Some of the legit scientists who work at such institutes/departments say that finding alien life will change humanities outlook on life and ourselves.

Did not Steven Hawkins say that this was a really bad idea?

We won't know one way or the other until we find and contact alien life.

 

[T'Girl]

Since you're an optimist, when do you think 'united Terra' will be a reality. Come one, make a guess just for fun

The United Earth that I've envisioned in the Trek universe, an international organization composed of sovereign nations? A combination of the UN (without the corruption), the international monetary fund, the world bank, a worldwide interpol, a world trade organization maybe another half century.

A United Earth that is a one world government with no (real) independent nations? Hopefully never.

 

[HIjol]

Ellie Arroway/Carl Sagan, 1997, "Contact"[/I]

Why didn't you vote for Seti? Some of the legit scientists who work at such institutes/departments say that finding alien life will change humanities outlook on life and ourselves. I think that makes sense. It may not bring peace on earth but at least we'll realize we have much more in common with each other than there are differences. I also think Seti has a chance of succeeding: Somewhere since the 2000's Seti has received some significan funding and also current computers are getting very fast and radiotelescopes very big, expanding the search with magnitudes.

But I also disagree with you and the other people who voted for science. In many scientific fields we can already perform minor miracles. But there´s still a lot of misery, war and distrust on earth. Theoretical physics, face transplants or SpaceX is not going to change that: in the mean times nothing changes in places of war, tyranny or exploitation. People themselves have to make the world a better place in some fundamental way.

Guess I thought Science was implied in what I said, but you are absolutely correct, Sulu! Cannot do without it.

Even if I'm given the responsibility, it's not my call to say when you die. Like it or not, on my watch you're going to live until the good Lord calls you home.

Well, you've just disqualified yourself from being my pick in this regard, as I'm a firm believer in sensible, humane euthanasia, unencumbered by superstitious doctrines. I appreciate your forthrightness and honesty; handshake accepted.

And, we are gonna need this:

"Look, all I'm asking, is for you to just have the tiniest bit of vision. You know, to just sit back for one minute and look at the big picture. To take a chance on something that just might end up being the most profoundly impactful moment for humanity, for the history... of history." Ellie Arroway/Carl Sagan, 1997, "Contact"

A nice quote, which could absolutely be applied to preserving our planetary biodiversity before it becomes forever poorer and narrower. Notice, please, that Arroway was asking for a tiny bit of money for some large satellite dishes; she wasn't asking to try to design and build FTL spaceships or terraform Mars or some crap before even hearing mere radio signals from space.

Oh, I know the more narrow reference and meaning to the quote. I used it in the spirit of "Vision" and Scientist/Researchers needing to come to places of funding to ask for money.

Some of the legit scientists who work at such institutes/departments say that finding alien life will change humanities outlook on life and ourselves.

Did not Steven Hawkins say that this was a really bad idea?

People themselves have to make the world a better place in some fundamental way.

Which is happening, but it's happening incrementally over time and in a patchwork of regions, not globally at the same time.

Also, a LOT of consistant funding for places lots of people do not like to see our precious money go

People don't like public taxpayer money going there, private funding is fine. One of the problems in terms of public perceptions is money for physics come out of the same public budget as studying the sex life of the yellow banana slug. People can't see any real purpose in sending a probe to Pluto, or figuring out why the universe expanses at it current rate, the information obtained is simply too esoteric. Medical research and new advancements in metallurgy and chemistry ... this they can understand, this will benefit them and their children.

The Hadron collider, not so much.

It's popular to say people just need to give "just a little bit more," except that a little bit more was reached and passed decades ago.

Yep, and as I mentioned, it is gonna take using money for things most people do not like using money for.