The Flash - Season 1

[theenglish]

He went back to kill Barry as a baby.

20somethign year old Barry could destroy his time machine? or more accurately, if Gideon is his time machine, Barry broke her.

Besides, the newspaper talking about dinosaurs at the zoo was translated as being holes in time created by the Crisis.

It is very possible that Thawne is trying to kill Barry because he thinks that doing so will prevent the impending Crisis.

At this point, it looks like we might have a Flashpoint universe storyline set up. Hopefully that would be something that could last a few episodes.

 

[Servo]

He went back to kill Barry as a baby.

20somethign year old Barry could destroy his time machine? or more accurately, if Gideon is his time machine, Barry broke her.

Besides, the newspaper talking about dinosaurs at the zoo was translated as being holes in time created by the Crisis.

It is very possible that Thawne is trying to kill Barry because he thinks that doing so will prevent the impending Crisis.

At this point, it looks like we might have a Flashpoint universe storyline set up. Hopefully that would be something that could last a few episodes.

Maybe I'm misremembering, but wasn't comic Thawne's problem that he couldn't kill Barry because Barry was the reason he had his own abilities, so he engineered the Flashpoint paradox to create a scenario where Barry could be killed without affecting his own origin?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Barry saved his mother and screwed over the world. Eobard had nothing to do with it. What Eobard did was try as hard as he could to make sure Barry couldn't change the world back, because it was hilarious to watch Barry keep trying to rekill his own mother to save the world.

At least that was the movie.

There was some extra metaphysical shit with the comics I can't quite put my finger on.

 

[Servo]

Barry saved his mother and screwed over the world. Eobard had nothing to do with it. What Eobard did was try as hard as he could to make sure Barry couldn't change the world back, because it was hilarious to watch Barry keep trying to rekill his own mother to save the world.

At least that was the movie.

There was some extra metaphysical shit with the comics I can't quite put my finger on.

I remember now. Eobard just took advantage of the situation. But it is true that Eobard couldn't kill Barry without destroying his own abilities, until Barry became a living paradox as a result of Flashpoint. That gave Eobard the opportunity to kill him and keep his powers, but Thomas Wayne killed Eobard first.

Barry didn't try and kill his own mother, he just merged with his other self in the speed force and prevented himself from saving her in the first place.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I over simplified.

Barry actively allowed a situation of events to take place where his mother was killed by stopping himself from saving her.

Ergo he killed her.

Surely if the creation of the flashpoint timeline didn't erase Thawne from time, he could have killed Barry whenever?

 

[The Old Mixer]

but Thomas Wayne killed Eobard first.

Was Uncle Ben an accomplice?

 

[TemporalFlux]

Sounds like it could turn out to be a Pre-destination paradox.

Thawne was inspired to get his powers based on the Flash.

Thawne travels back in time and alters Barry's history; with the existence of the Flash in doubt, Thawne loses his powers.

A stranded Thawne is then left with the task of making the sure the Flash comes into existence if Thawne wants his powers back.

So Thawne would not have gone back without the Flash and he cannot go forward without the Flash. The interesting thing is that if Barry defeats Thawne in the past, then there will be no Thawne to create the Flash. Unlike Flashpoint, the crux is going to be that Flash has to save Thawne.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Well, when you put it that way, it makes sense. At this point, we know that Thawne came from the future, but it's not expressly known how he got here - slingshot maneuver, cosmic treadmill, etc. I'm leaning towards the latter. So if Wells had the means to travel to the past, what's preventing him from using it again to get back to his own time? A broken warp engine shouldn't stop Starfleet officers from exploring the galaxy. That's why there are engineers. Isn't Wells a friggin' genius scientist?

Pretty sure everything Wells has done at S.T.A.R. Labs was geared toward getting him back to his own time.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Sounds like it could turn out to be a Pre-destination paradox.

Thawne was inspired to get his powers based on the Flash.

Thawne travels back in time and alters Barry's history; with the existence of the Flash in doubt, Thawne loses his powers.

A stranded Thawne is then left with the task of making the sure the Flash comes into existence if Thawne wants his powers back.

So Thawne would not have gone back without the Flash and he cannot go forward without the Flash. The interesting thing is that if Barry defeats Thawne in the past, then there will be no Thawne to create the Flash. Unlike Flashpoint, the crux is going to be that Flash has to save Thawne.

Remember when the Newspaper changed, because the future changed, but Eobard in the past didn't because Barry lost his powers? This version of Wells has to come from a specific future and not even a mildly jiggled future. The future changed and he lived to bitch about it. No one is going to fade away at their parents prom.

There is no predestination.

 

[Servo]

but Thomas Wayne killed Eobard first.

Was Uncle Ben an accomplice?

Thomas Wayne was Batman in the altered timeline, after Bruce was killed in the alley instead of him and Martha.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Did Jor-El come to Earth to team up with him?

 

[DWF]

Wells' actions are more than alittle strange, he gave Barry his powers on purpose and yet he still tried to kill him as a child. Adn then there's Grodd, we have no idea why Wells' needs Grodd as well. And really Wells doesn't appear to do anything he doesn't need to, to advance whatever plan he's got in mind.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Did he?

Maybe someone else built the accelerator in the old timeline we never saw, and Wells stole that wo/man's resume of accomplishments including the culpability of creating the Flash?

Or maybe the accelerator and the lightning bolt were two different independent things? (Wells purposely made it look like they were connected although to help forward his own agenda.)

Maybe the accelerator was powered by/feeding/taking advantage of the weird storm that always had created the Flash?

Maybe the accelerator super charged the storm that was going to make the Flash, but now made him "faster and more powerful" so that he would be capable of Time Travel years before he had originally figured out that such a thing was possible, if he ever had.

 

[JD]

Wells' actions are more than alittle strange, he gave Barry his powers on purpose and yet he still tried to kill him as a child. Adn then there's Grodd, we have no idea why Wells' needs Grodd as well. And really Wells doesn't appear to do anything he doesn't need to, to advance whatever plan he's got in mind.

Well, when you put it that way, it makes sense. At this point, we know that Thawne came from the future, but it's not expressly known how he got here - slingshot maneuver, cosmic treadmill, etc. I'm leaning towards the latter. So if Wells had the means to travel to the past, what's preventing him from using it again to get back to his own time? A broken warp engine shouldn't stop Starfleet officers from exploring the galaxy. That's why there are engineers. Isn't Wells a friggin' genius scientist?

I think I remember Eobard saying something about losing his speed in one of the earlier episode. We also saw him suddenly lose the use of his legs in an episode too.
Perhaps when he first came back he hadn't started to lose his speed yet, so he could kill Barry with no problem. Now that he is losing hs speed he's trapped in our time and he needs to use Barry's powers to jump start his own . It would also make sense if Barry needs to get to a certain point before he can use his powers. That would explain why he's protecting Barry. He needs him to stay alive, with his powers, and close enough that he can take his powers when he's ready.

 

[DWF]

Wells' actions are more than alittle strange, he gave Barry his powers on purpose and yet he still tried to kill him as a child. Adn then there's Grodd, we have no idea why Wells' needs Grodd as well. And really Wells doesn't appear to do anything he doesn't need to, to advance whatever plan he's got in mind.

Well, when you put it that way, it makes sense. At this point, we know that Thawne came from the future, but it's not expressly known how he got here - slingshot maneuver, cosmic treadmill, etc. I'm leaning towards the latter. So if Wells had the means to travel to the past, what's preventing him from using it again to get back to his own time? A broken warp engine shouldn't stop Starfleet officers from exploring the galaxy. That's why there are engineers. Isn't Wells a friggin' genius scientist?

I think I remember Eobard saying something about losing his speed in one of the earlier episode. We also saw him suddenly lose the use of his legs in an episode too.
Perhaps when he first came back he hadn't started to lose his speed yet, so he could kill Barry with no problem. Now that he is losing hs speed he's trapped in our time and he needs to use Barry's powers to jump start his own . It would also make sense if Barry needs to get to a certain point before he can use his powers. That would explain why he's protecting Barry. He needs him to stay alive, with his powers, and close enough that he can take his powers when he's ready.

If he needs Barry's powes then why did he try and kill him as a child? It's more than likely because of some crisis in the future and Wells sees himself as a hero for tying to kill Barry before he causes some catastrophe in the future.

 

[Misfit Toy]

Did Jor-El come to Earth to team up with him?

No, but Martha was so freaked out that she became the Joker.

 

[Christopher]

^Martha Wayne, that is, not Martha Kent. (I wonder, A, why the '50s Superboy comics writers changed Ma Kent's name to Martha when it had previously been given as Sarah and Mary, and B, why they didn't realize it was already the name of Bruce Wayne's mother.)

 

[The Old Mixer]

Wow.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Wow.

Just another crazy alternate reality. No worse than the one were Superman is a communist or Bruce Wayne become Green Lantern.

^Martha Wayne, that is, not Martha Kent. (I wonder, A, why the '50s Superboy comics writers changed Ma Kent's name to Martha when it had previously been given as Sarah and Mary, and B, why they didn't realize it was already the name of Bruce Wayne's mother.)

Old school DC. Different editorial fiefdoms. They really didn't coordinate their continuity. Which is why you could have ten different takes on Atlantis in DC's books. I think for a while even Superman and Superboy didn't bother to cross check, even with the same editor!

There was a bit I read some where that concluded Martha Wayne, Martha Kent and May Parker were the same woman.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Indeed, I read that Superboy wasn't acknowledged in a retelling of Superman's origin until the late 50s, even though they'd started publishing "the adventures of Superman when he was a boy" back in 1945.

I even read a reprint of a Superman story from the late 50s that didn't make any sense if Superman had been Superboy. Some alien bad guys came to Earth pretending to be extraterrestrial lawmen who'd come to arrest Superman on the basis that he was supposed to have been an intergalactic criminal before he came to Earth. Putting aside that everyone on Earth just took them at their word in the first place, that story wouldn't have held water if he'd been a public hero on Earth since his pre-teens.