A TMP "What If"

[Bry_Sinclair]

TMP is supposedly set around eighteen months after the end of Kirk's five-year mission, despite being released ten years after the TV series was cancelled.

What if the producers had decided that instead of two years ten had actually passed for the crew of the Enterprise? What would you liked to have seen in TMP? What would the crewmembers have been doing during the intervening years? Who would still be on the Enterprise? How would they all come together once again to save the day? Would you still keep Decker and Ilia in the mix?

This idea popped into my head when I woke up this morning (can only imagine what I was dreaming last night), so haven't had time to really think about what I'd want to see just yet.

 

[Maurice]

It was set at least 2.5 years years after the end of the mission, "Two and half years as chief of Starfleet operations may have made me a little stale..." That's 30 months.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Diane Duane's early Trek novels were set during a second five-year mission before TMP, either missing or choosing to ignore TMP's "2-1/2 years" reference. It sounds reasonable to me.

 

[T'Girl]

The novelization to the side, there no telling what Kirk was doing (or for how long) after the end of the Enterprise's five year mission. We only know what he was doing for the previous two and a half years.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

However long there was between TOS and TMP isn't what I was looking theories for, but rather for thoughts on what the crew would've done it TMP was set in late-2270s and not the early-2270s.

How would ten years change things in TMP and the other movies that followed?

Would Kirk have been flying a desk or commanding a starbase somewhere all that time? Would Spock still have left to return to Vulcan? Would McCoy be in private practice somewhere in the galaxy? Would Scotty have stuck with his engines? Would Sulu have gotten a command earlier? Would Uhura be teaching at the Academy? Would Chekov be Sulu's XO or off on another posting? Would Chapel be CMO? Would Rand have gotten a commission? Would Decker, Ilia and Sonak be the ones off having adventures on the Enterprise?

 

[Pauln6]

The series of novels set between TOS and TMP detail Chekov's security training, McCoy studying with the Fabrini, Rand working for Starfleet Intelligence communications etc. 2.5 years would not be enough time for Chapel to qualify as a junior medical doctor let alone a CMO unless she was also a trainee doctor or junior doctor during TOS. Rand was a CPO in TMP so her commission must have come after STIV. In STIII she was dressed in an officer's uniform but she was clearly faking it to get into the officer's lounge just to see the Enterprise limping home.

 

[Timewalker]

However long there was between TOS and TMP isn't what I was looking theories for, but rather for thoughts on what the crew would've done it TMP was set in late-2270s and not the early-2270s.

How would ten years change things in TMP and the other movies that followed?

Would Kirk have been flying a desk or commanding a starbase somewhere all that time? Would Spock still have left to return to Vulcan? Would McCoy be in private practice somewhere in the galaxy? Would Scotty have stuck with his engines? Would Sulu have gotten a command earlier? Would Uhura be teaching at the Academy? Would Chekov be Sulu's XO or off on another posting? Would Chapel be CMO? Would Rand have gotten a commission? Would Decker, Ilia and Sonak be the ones off having adventures on the Enterprise?

A ten-year gap would have been more realistic given the actors' ages, but storywise it would have justifiably necessitated a lot of gymnastics to justify this particular senior crew coming together again after moving on with their careers even more than some of them did.

 

[Galileo7]

WOK is more than ten years after their five year mission ended in 2270. So, in those years off-screen [even w/o TMP] the 1701 would have been refit due to technology updates and the events of WOK would have happened, i.e., Spock and crew teaching cadets...Chekov on Reliant.

 

[J.T.B.]

The novelization to the side, there no telling what Kirk was doing (or for how long) after the end of the Enterprise's five year mission. We only know what he was doing for the previous two and a half years.

Right. All we know is Kirk had held the Operations job for two and a half years and hadn't logged a "star hour" in the same period. Considering that he probably had two promotions (possibly three, if you want to count fleet captain) there could certainly have been ten years elapsed, with Kirk possibly holding a space command as a commodore before his admiralship.

Would Kirk have been flying a desk or commanding a starbase somewhere all that time? Would Spock still have left to return to Vulcan? Would McCoy be in private practice somewhere in the galaxy? Would Scotty have stuck with his engines? Would Sulu have gotten a command earlier? Would Uhura be teaching at the Academy? Would Chekov be Sulu's XO or off on another posting? Would Chapel be CMO? Would Rand have gotten a commission? Would Decker, Ilia and Sonak be the ones off having adventures on the Enterprise?

My dream scenario would have been for the core crew to be dispersed, assigned in various positions on more than one ship, which come together as a task force under Kirk for whatever super-important crisis. You could have some new characters as other captains, see the heroes working in different situations and see some different kinds of ships. Would never happen, I know.

Personally I would have liked Scott to become captain of his own vessel. Yes, he was obsessed with engineering, but he was also shown to be a very able and effective ship commander a number of times in TOS; unfortunately there was not time for that aspect of his character in the movies.

 

[drt]

WOK is more than ten years after their five year mission ended in 2270. So, in those years off-screen [even w/o TMP] the 1701 would have been refit due to technology updates and the events of WOK would have happened, i.e., Spock and crew teaching cadets...Chekov on Reliant.

Yep.

It's even arguable that it makes sense to drop TMP out of continuity* and have TWOK be the continuation of TOS.

* = and I say this with TMP being my favorite original cast movie

 

[Lance]

As strange as it seems to us now in our world of hindsight where we know Star Trek "lived long and prospered" into becoming a successful franchise, back in 1979 TMP was effectively being marketed as a one-off 'reunion episode'.

(We all know it had been the pilot of 'Phase II', but to the general public there was a perception that this was a ten year reunion of the cancellation of the original show. All of this must have been very confusing, given the movie pegs the timeframe as being only two years later, despite all the evidence we can see with our own eyes that everybody has gotten a decade older! )

I could definitely imagine there being a lot of emotional impact for the audience if the story had revolved around, for example, Kirk using his influence and the V'Ger crisis as an excuse for getting the band back together for one more mission, ten years after they all went their seperate ways.

I can't quite see how they could work Enterprise into it, unless for some reason Starfleet indulged him by giving him back his old ship for this mission, or else Admiral Kirk had been assigned Enterprise as his personal flagship ala the way it seems to still be under his overall command in TWOK (despite it only being assigned to training exercises.)

On some level I can totally see the storyline of TMP being 'mashed up' with certain character elements of TWOK, to create a ten year reunion special that would have satisfied the viewing public.

 

[Nightowl1701]

I can't quite see how they could work Enterprise into it, unless for some reason Starfleet indulged him by giving him back his old ship for this mission, or else Admiral Kirk had been assigned Enterprise as his personal flagship ala the way it seems to still be under his overall command in TWOK (despite it only being assigned to training exercises.)

Go the Knight Rider 2000 route, and drop 'almost' from 'almost totally new Enterprise.' Say the original ship's retired to the Starfleet Museum, and this ship's the prototype of a brand-new class of starship. When Kirk pulls rank and gets the band back together, he has the ship renamed from whatever it was going to be (NCC-1800, presumably) to Enterprise and (per Matt Jefferies' suggestion) adds the A to the classic number.

 

[Khan 2.0]

WOK is more than ten years after their five year mission ended in 2270. So, in those years off-screen [even w/o TMP] the 1701 would have been refit due to technology updates and the events of WOK would have happened, i.e., Spock and crew teaching cadets...Chekov on Reliant.

Yep.

It's even arguable that it makes sense to drop TMP out of continuity* and have TWOK be the continuation of TOS.

* = and I say this with TMP being my favorite original cast movie

kind of what TWOK did anyway.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Diane Duane's early Trek novels were set during a second five-year mission before TMP, either missing or choosing to ignore TMP's "2-1/2 years" reference. It sounds reasonable to me.

Lots of leeway. Some journalists of the day interpreted the details in the TMP media releases as meaning the first 5YM "finished early", referring to the show's cancellation after Season Three (and ignoring TAS). You can also have the second 5YM not finishing as expected. It was very fluxxy in the novels.

 

[Lance]

WOK is more than ten years after their five year mission ended in 2270. So, in those years off-screen [even w/o TMP] the 1701 would have been refit due to technology updates and the events of WOK would have happened, i.e., Spock and crew teaching cadets...Chekov on Reliant.

Yep.

It's even arguable that it makes sense to drop TMP out of continuity* and have TWOK be the continuation of TOS.

* = and I say this with TMP being my favorite original cast movie

kind of what TWOK did anyway.

^ True.

Note, for example, that the bridge stations have been moved around so as to place Spock off to the side of the bridge again, more closely resembling his location on the old TOS bridge (instead of being directly behind the captain's chair as in TMP).

 

[Therin of Andor]

2.5 years would not be enough time for Chapel to qualify as a junior medical doctor let alone a CMO unless she was also a trainee doctor or junior doctor during TOS.

According to Duane's novels, Chapel had been studying all through the 5YM, and only needed a short course to have her qualifications recognized by Starfleet Medical. That's when she was replaced by Nurse Lia Burke (Duane's novels and comics). In fact, Majel Barrett missed some TAS episodes when she was pregnant with Rod Jr., IIRC.

Chapel may have taken a substantial demotion to get onto the Enterprise in the first place, in hope of finding her fiance, Roger Corby.

 

[Warped9]

My own view would have meant only a bit of dialogue tweaking. When Kirk is talking to Decker he merely has to say "my years out there" rather than "five years out there."

We know (from "The Menagerie") that Pike commanded the Enterprise for more than five years. So I always liked the idea that the TOS crew had another 5-year mission after TOS then returned home and about 2 to 2.5 years pass before the events of TMP. So TMP would have been 7-8 years after TOS (close enough to 10 to fit the actors' change in appearance).

The greater elapse of time also makes it easier to accept the distinct change in how things look overall.

 

[Pauln6]

2.5 years would not be enough time for Chapel to qualify as a junior medical doctor let alone a CMO unless she was also a trainee doctor or junior doctor during TOS.

According to Duane's novels, Chapel had been studying all through the 5YM, and only needed a short course to have her qualifications recognized by Starfleet Medical. That's when she was replaced by Nurse Lia Burke (Duane's novels and comics). In fact, Majel Barrett missed some TAS episodes when she was pregnant with Rod Jr., IIRC.

Chapel may have taken a substantial demotion to get onto the Enterprise in the first place, in hope of finding her fiance, Roger Corby.

Yeah, modern notions of what it takes to become a doctor colour my assumptions. I know a lot of doctors. However, I don't think she took a demotion. It's implied that her whole reason for entering Starfleet was to get out there to find Korby.

I think trainee doctors spend 5 years of study as medical students and then 2 years as trainee doctors, where they are entitled to be called 'Doctor' and their training is on the job. Such training would not be alongside working as a nurse; she would have been a doctor. To be qualified if TMP is set 3 years after TOS, Chapel would have had to be studying for the whole of TOS and training in betweeen, and even then, she would still be a junior doctor, not qualified enough to be a CMO.

Medical researchers train in biology and chemistry while doctors train in medicine. They are not interchangeable disciplines, although a friend of mine took a physics degree before training as a doctor and was exempted from some of the scientific modules of the medical degree. Making her Lt and a phd in exobiology would have been more sensible.

Despite all that, it's still not as daft as making Chekov security chief, and even that was not as daft as making him chief engineer in NuTrek. Trek just be dumb sometimes.

 

[gottacook]

Yep.

It's even arguable that it makes sense to drop TMP out of continuity* and have TWOK be the continuation of TOS.

* = and I say this with TMP being my favorite original cast movie

kind of what TWOK did anyway.

^ True.

Note, for example, that the bridge stations have been moved around so as to place Spock off to the side of the bridge again, more closely resembling his location on the old TOS bridge (instead of being directly behind the captain's chair as in TMP).

This is not just arguable but convincingly arguable. If (as seems reasonable to assume) TWOK is a reboot through-and-through, despite a little reuse of TMP effects footage and ship model, then there was no refit at all; this is simply how the ship would have looked on TV if it had been feasible to do so in 1966, but (as mentioned in the film) with 15 years having elapsed; enough time to add a second bridge turbolift, etc.

In TMP we are shown a huge and varied crew. Where did they all go? Why is Enterprise now a training vessel? In the TWOK continuity, it all makes sense: Enterprise is getting a little outmoded, hence its use for training, and the discussion of its age and threatened decommission in TSFS makes a lot more sense if there had never been a refit.

 

[Lance]

It's even arguable that it makes sense to drop TMP out of continuity* and have TWOK be the continuation of TOS.

kind of what TWOK did anyway.

^ True.

Note, for example, that the bridge stations have been moved around so as to place Spock off to the side of the bridge again, more closely resembling his location on the old TOS bridge (instead of being directly behind the captain's chair as in TMP).

This is not just arguable but convincingly arguable. If (as seems reasonable to assume) TWOK is a reboot through-and-through, despite a little reuse of TMP effects footage and ship model, then there was no refit at all; this is simply how the ship would have looked on TV if it had been feasible to do so in 1966, but (as mentioned in the film) with 15 years having elapsed; enough time to add a second bridge turbolift, etc.

In TMP we are shown a huge and varied crew. Where did they all go? Why is Enterprise now a training vessel? In the TWOK continuity, it all makes sense: Enterprise is getting a little outmoded, hence its use for training, and the discussion of its age and threatened decommission in TSFS makes a lot more sense if there had never been a refit.

^ There was a story floating around in fandom a couple years ago that director Nick Meyer was asked during production, just how they were going to explain to fans the changes in set designs/uniforms/etc from what we saw in TMP? Meyer reputably responded something to the effect of: "We don't. As far as we're concerned, the first movie didn't happen".

Make of that what you will, and also bear in mind that certain prints of TWOK were initially released in theaters under the on-screen title 'Star Trek: The Wrath Of Khan', without the definitive numeral 'II' after 'Star Trek'. It seems to me they had a pretty clear idea about what they were doing.