Well, it was Chekov that said it, maybe he just misremembered which one carried the death penalty. He was forever thinking that Russians invented or discovered everything, after all, so any of his 'facts' are suspect.
"The Menagerie" questions
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Well, it was Chekov that said it, maybe he just misremembered which one carried the death penalty. He was forever thinking that Russians invented or discovered everything, after all, so any of his 'facts' are suspect.
Another angle at my hobby-horse here: GO7 is not a relic from an era of commonplace death penalties, but a modern sanction introduced just a decade before the TOS adventures. It was nevertheless described as "the only death penalty left on our books", suggesting there were more earlier on. The implication seems to be that death penalties constantly get introduced and then removed from the books, and the "steady state" of that activity is now dwindling towards zero death penalties. Doesn't mean the GO4-related one wouldn't still pop up (and then again down) a few years later.
Timo Saloiniemi
Timo Saloiniemi
That's a really good point.
Why is it that once a character says something it's always carved in stone?
Now when Mendez had the actual file and they were discussing it in the office, fine, but someone saying something in passing, they could be wrong. Like if Chekov said all Romulans are left handed, how could he know that? But if Spock said it or it was in an official discussion (not a passing remark), I can see the difference, but a quick statement from a not as reliable character under duress, I think there's your in universe explanation.
Also, Talos 4 = order 4 = easy mistake when your captain has gone nutty and wants to execute everyone and you're contempling mutiny.
And none of the other characters present corrected him, because....?
...Because it didn't matter? The point was that there was only one death penalty, and its diary number was irrelevant.
I'd much rather it really were GO4, though, because
a) it makes no sense to quarantine Talos IV after the events of "The Menagerie"
b) as noted, death penalties do come and go, even in the latter half of the 23rd century
c) Chekov isn't known for verifiably erring, the Russian jokes notwithstanding - in fact, Spock is the one known to make erroneous statements every now and then, while Chekov is chided by him for inaccurate or incomplete (rather than erroneous) facts so often that he probably is extraordinarily cautious now!
Timo Saloniemi
I'd much rather it really were GO4, though, because
a) it makes no sense to quarantine Talos IV after the events of "The Menagerie"
b) as noted, death penalties do come and go, even in the latter half of the 23rd century
c) Chekov isn't known for verifiably erring, the Russian jokes notwithstanding - in fact, Spock is the one known to make erroneous statements every now and then, while Chekov is chided by him for inaccurate or incomplete (rather than erroneous) facts so often that he probably is extraordinarily cautious now!
Timo Saloniemi
The idea that the general orders got renumbered is the best bet, by far.
Because they were moving towards eliminating them all together?
Just because occasional old ones still pop up now and again, doesn't mean that new ones would be brought in - the intention is to go down, after all.
But a new one was brought in with GO7. So why not also with GO4?
We could argue that death penalty was commonplace in the 2250s but was rapidly removed in the 2260s because Dr. Adams invented new ways to deal with criminals who do not repent and would otherwise have to be permanently removed from the society, either by killing or by imprisoning forever. But that's not what the death penalty in GO7 is for - it's purely for deterrent. And Dr. Adams' work removes all deterrence value from crimefighting (except when he goes overboard, as with Lethe, and apparently he didn't publish those results). So again it's better to argue that GO4 is something else altogether, something that can coexist with Adams' work.
Timo Saloniemi
We could argue that death penalty was commonplace in the 2250s but was rapidly removed in the 2260s because Dr. Adams invented new ways to deal with criminals who do not repent and would otherwise have to be permanently removed from the society, either by killing or by imprisoning forever. But that's not what the death penalty in GO7 is for - it's purely for deterrent. And Dr. Adams' work removes all deterrence value from crimefighting (except when he goes overboard, as with Lethe, and apparently he didn't publish those results). So again it's better to argue that GO4 is something else altogether, something that can coexist with Adams' work.
Timo Saloniemi
That would add a layer of meaning to Mendez saying, "And to do so is the only death penalty left on our books. Only Fleet Command knows why. Not even this file explains that."
What could Talos hold that would make an offender completely irredeemable? Since Adams' techniques were revolutionary and so effective the enormity of the Talosian's must be incalculable as to warrant a now-obsolete punishment.
Nicely done!
Obviously they feared The Talosians that much after reading Pike's logs! Total mind control must be the ultimate weapon in the eyes of the Federation leaders and the ability to lose one's self in long lost memories or exciting situations and not be attending to the daily chores of life must have frightened them to that degree!
JB
JB
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