Why is uplifting lower species a bad thing?

[Makarov]

If we were contacted before we reached this threshold, instead of enriching the galactic store of knowledge we would merely absorb it. Consider, for example, that the motivation a terrestrial researcher (or research funder) might have for pursuing new ideas would be considerably diminished, as the best human minds could be occupied for generations digesting the technology and cultural experiences of a society advanced far beyond our own.

Interesting. Maybe there would be a period of adjusting and absorbing the new knowledge. But once everyone is on the same playing field so to speak. Advancement will still happen - maybe even quicker, since the brightest minds of a generation would be brought to the cutting edge of the latest technology instead of working on things the advanced civilization already figured out.

I think humans at least have the ability to absorb new technology quickly and start doing things with it.

Here's something I was thinking about though... maybe the federation doesn't have the resources anyway to be uplifting a bunch of species? Maybe it's too taxing especially if they are fighting wars at the same time. And it would require long term investment of personnel.

 

[Trek Survivor]

I'm fine with the principle of not giving advanced weapons/technology etc to an alien race for some of the reasons already given.

NOT fine with the idea of letting entire races getting wiped out by not interfering as espoused on occasion by Trek.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I'm fine with the principle of not giving advanced weapons/technology etc to an alien race for some of the reasons already given.

NOT fine with the idea of letting entire races getting wiped out by not interfering as espoused on occasion by Trek.

It's in the fine print (either they going around playing God or they don't).

Of course, some could argue that even the act of not playing God is still playing God, so it's never going to be something that will appease everyone.

 

[Silvercrest]

That way lies madness.

Pursue it and you just end up standing on the Moon talking to yourself.

 

[T'Girl]

It's in the fine print (either they going around playing God or they don't).

Translation: "We don't trust our own people."

If you think about it, that essentually is what the Prime Directive is. A statement that the people being sent out into the darkness are not trusted, no trust in their judgement, reasoning or wisdom.

 

[Gaith]

If there are any Vulcans out there, I for one would appreciate it if they'd write an open letter to humanity now, with maybe a limited diplomatic outreach to the UN, before that whole WWIII thing starts. Even if they don't give us any new technology, a gentle general recommendation for peace and nuclear disarmament would be great. That, and a cure for nut allergies would be just fine.

 

[DonIago]

It's in the fine print (either they going around playing God or they don't).

Translation: "We don't trust our own people."

If you think about it, that essentually is what the Prime Directive is. A statement that the people being sent out into the darkness are not trusted, no trust in their judgement, reasoning or wisdom.

Frankly, my experiences with humans haven't particularly led me to trust them either.

It's no different than any other job where you're told that there are prohibitions upon your conduct in certain scenarios.

 

[Nightdiamond]

I'm fine with the principle of not giving advanced weapons/technology etc to an alien race for some of the reasons already given.

NOT fine with the idea of letting entire races getting wiped out by not interfering as espoused on occasion by Trek.

There are episodes where Starfleet gets very upset when their existence or lives are threatened, and an outside power refuses to help. (Break their own version of the Prime Directive)

Or when another species has something they want or need, but won't share it for reasons similar to the Prime Directive.

If there are any Vulcans out there, I for one would appreciate it if they'd write an open letter to humanity now, with maybe a limited diplomatic outreach to the UN, before that whole WWIII thing starts. Even if they don't give us any new technology, a gentle general recommendation for peace and nuclear disarmament would be great. That, and a cure for nut allergies would be just fine.

It's strange but Starfleet simply has a big problem with that. Even with simple, peaceful gestures designed to avoid bloodshed.

I can see why, in some sense, but it seems like it gets taken to an extreme level.

Hell, Kirk got angry when the Organians directly interfered to prevent outright war that would have cost millions lives.

They're more concerned about the concept of inference, than any positive outcome, it seems.

 

[Ithekro]

Starfleet believes that if a species is going to make a mistake or get wiped out by a natural event or evolutionary trait, that is what was suppose to happen. Why interfere in the natural course of events? Messing with it could lead to greater problems. Even the ENT episode that introduces Starfleet to the concept is one of the Enterprise being able to save a species with a genetic defect that will eventually end their species, but not doing so as it would prevent the natural course of evolution on that planet as the next species would be able to become dominate as the other species dies out.

 

[Gaith]

^ And it's probably ENT's most controversial episode by a long shot.


@Nightdiamond: The zero-tolerance policy arguably has upsides for episodic TV - it facilitates disguising-as-natives plots, and provides easy drama with the risk of discovery. But yeah, it definitely has some pretty glaring moral downsides.

Now, it might have been extremely awkward had Vulcans made contact in, say, 1938, and argued against starting a new World War - how could they prove who they were to the world as a whole without freaking entire countries the heck out? Now that high-quality planet-wide communication is widespread and cheap, however, not to mention we've had decades of sci-fi scenarios to think about such things, I think we'd be pretty ready to make limited, diplomatic-only contact with a race like Vulcans today, even without Cochrane's warp engine.

 

[T'Girl]

Now, it might have been extremely awkward had Vulcans made contact in, say, 1938, and argued against starting a new World War.

The result of that would be what? Listen to them and simply allow the Germans, Italians and the Japanese to run wild and take over whatever countries they wanted.

Because the only way to stop them was to engage in warfare.

 

[Nightdiamond]

Starfleet believes that if a species is going to make a mistake or get wiped out by a natural event or evolutionary trait, that is what was suppose to happen. Why interfere in the natural course of events? Messing with it could lead to greater problems. Even the ENT episode that introduces Starfleet to the concept is one of the Enterprise being able to save a species with a genetic defect that will eventually end their species, but not doing so as it would prevent the natural course of evolution on that planet as the next species would be able to become dominate as the other species dies out.

It seemed like S.F took a turn into some weird pseudo scientific logic.

The logic could be flipped, why should 22th-24th century humans fight any lethal, contagious disease that threatens them, since it could be interpreted that it was natural selection in progress?

There was an example where Picard was trying hard to prevent a moon from falling out of orbit, as it would cause massive devastation and destruction for that planet's world.

The logic could be used, by a Q for example, is that it was meant to happen to a lesser species that couldn't prevent it themselves. So they wouldn't bother helping even though they could with a snap of the finger.

@Nightdiamond: The zero-tolerance policy arguably has upsides for episodic TV - it facilitates disguising-as-natives plots, and provides easy drama with the risk of discovery. But yeah, it definitely has some pretty glaring moral downsides.

Now, it might have been extremely awkward had Vulcans made contact in, say, 1938, and argued against starting a new World War - how could they prove who they were to the world as a whole without freaking entire countries the heck out? Now that high-quality planet-wide communication is widespread and cheap, however, not to mention we've had decades of sci-fi scenarios to think about such things, I think we'd be pretty ready to make limited, diplomatic-only contact with a race like Vulcans today, even without Cochrane's warp engine.

True, and it seems like Starfleet has a somewhat hypersensitive attitude toward the idea of contamination.

It seems that S.F feels that even a slight, friendly, non evasive gesture towards a 'lesser' culture is dangerous, and will result in catastrophe.

It's almost like the pacifist concept. Pacifism is an advance, honorable philosophy, but taken to an extreme, it becomes almost illogical.

For example, a power or planet that refuses to protect themselves even to save their own lives or protect the freedom of themselves and countrymen.

I can see the wisdom of not contacting very primitive, superstitious cultures.

But what harm could there be to contacting a culture that has reasonable knowledge of science and space?

 

[Gaith]

Now, it might have been extremely awkward had Vulcans made contact in, say, 1938, and argued against starting a new World War.

The result of that would be what? Listen to them and simply allow the Germans, Italians and the Japanese to run wild and take over whatever countries they wanted.

Because the only way to stop them was to engage in warfare.

Well, I was thinking that having sentient, wise aliens from outer space come in and start talking sense to the people of Earth might have broken the nationalistic fevers the Axis countries were variously afflicted with, and dissuaded them from going to war in the first place. A long shot, maybe, but that'd be the best-case scenario.

And, as I said, it would have been an awkward situation for sure, whereas if anyone has a compelling argument why hypothetical Vulcans shouldn't make contact with us now, I'd be interested to hear it. Maybe the threshold societal status for first contact should be a vibrant planetary internet and a generation or two of relative peace amongst its major powers, rather than a mere successful manned warp flight...

 

[Ithekro]

Until we gain warp flight, we can't effect other races outside out solar system in any reasonable length on time. Once we can go to other systems within months or years rather than decades and centuries, we potentally become a problem for others. And that point the Vulcans set in, take us aside and say "Look, what you do on your planet is your business, but if you are going to go out there into space, you need to setup your act or else you are going to get killed or kill someone else, and we wouldn't like that."

 

[Metryq]

if anyone has a compelling argument why hypothetical Vulcans shouldn't make contact with us now, I'd be interested to hear it.

Every merchant would be jumping in to get a foothold on "official" Vulcan (or other visitor) merchandise. Every political ideology would be seeking support that their brand is the superior way. The religious and philosophical would also seek confirmation, etc. etc.

And a few would try to become "famous" by taking the first pot-shots at the extra-terrestrials. (In the words of farmer Peabody, "Take that, you mutated son of a—")

Probably best to wait for the first representatives of a given race to make it into space. They're the ones most likely (though not guaranteed) to be educated and approachable.

 

[Metryq]

Until we gain warp flight, we can't effect other races outside out solar system in any reasonable length on time.

In CHILDHOOD'S END, the Overlords arrive just as Mankind is advancing spaceflight into the Solar system, but that was not the concern.

Excerpt from Karellen's final address to Mankind:

Science, it was felt, could explain everything: there were no forces which did not come within its scope, no events for which it could not ultimately account. The origin of the universe might be forever unknown, but all that had happened after obeyed the laws of physics.

Yet your mystics, though they were lost in their own delusions, had seen part of the truth. There are powers of the mind, and powers beyond the mind, which your science could never have brought within its framework without shattering it entirely. All down the ages there have been countless reports of strange phenomena—poltergeists, telepathy, precognition—which you had named but never explained. At first Science ignored them, even denied their existence, despite the testimony of five thousand years. But they exist and if it is to be complete any theory of the universe must account for them.

During the first half of the twentieth century, a few of your scientists began to investigate these matters. They did not know it, but they were tampering with the lock of Pandora's box. The forces they might have unleashed transcended any perils that the atom could have brought. For the physicists could only have ruined the Earth: the paraphysicists could have spread havoc to the stars.

That could not be allowed. I cannot explain the full nature of the threat you represented. It would not have been a threat to us [since the Overlords are not telepathic], and therefore we do not comprehend it. Let us say that you might have become a telepathic cancer, a malignant mentality which in its inevitable dissolution would have poisoned other and greater minds.

 

[Makarov]

Starfleet believes that if a species is going to make a mistake or get wiped out by a natural event or evolutionary trait, that is what was suppose to happen. Why interfere in the natural course of events? Messing with it could lead to greater problems. Even the ENT episode that introduces Starfleet to the concept is one of the Enterprise being able to save a species with a genetic defect that will eventually end their species, but not doing so as it would prevent the natural course of evolution on that planet as the next species would be able to become dominate as the other species dies out.

I don't see the value in letting natural random events take out entire civilizations. A random asteroid can take out anybody at the wrong time and place. They may have progressed to the most advanced peaceful race, but got dealt a bad hand with an environmental disaster early on for no reason at all. That's why I liken it to dropping a kid off in the woods to see if they can be "strong enough" to survive, Spartan style. The strong should help the weak in my opinion.

But I'd take it one step further and say that the federation shouldn't just prevent these apocalyptic scenarios, but should help them prepare to survive them on their own by sharing some of their technology.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Starfleet believes that if a species is going to make a mistake or get wiped out by a natural event or evolutionary trait, that is what was suppose to happen. Why interfere in the natural course of events? Messing with it could lead to greater problems. Even the ENT episode that introduces Starfleet to the concept is one of the Enterprise being able to save a species with a genetic defect that will eventually end their species, but not doing so as it would prevent the natural course of evolution on that planet as the next species would be able to become dominate as the other species dies out.

They only believe that in badly written episodes, and in better written episodes they don't believe that.

 

[MacLeod]

Well the Treaty of Versailles gave ammunition to the rise of Nazi Party in Germany, similarly the Oil embargo against Japan contributed to events which led up to the the Attack on Pearl Harbour. So those wise aliens would have to look at the actions of the Allied Nations as well.

 

[C.E. Evans]

It's in the fine print (either they going around playing God or they don't).

Translation: "We don't trust our own people."

If you think about it, that essentually is what the Prime Directive is. A statement that the people being sent out into the darkness are not trusted, no trust in their judgement, reasoning or wisdom.

That's not the Prime Directive--that's every single rule, regulation, and law ever made.

The Prime Directive is essentially a rule regarding contacts with less advanced civilizations that can both help and hurt such civilizations. For dramatic storytelling purposes, it will always put our heroes in a moral dilemma when such occurrences arise. "In-universe," the Prime Directive probably has to be viewed as a real damned if you do, damned if you don't policy whose worth may only be in that it may have helped more than hurt (if even only slightly). I think if it was otherwise, the Prime Directive would have been tossed out not long after it was created, IMO.