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The Walking Dead Season 5

Carol's gone of the rails with her little speech to the kid and doing her little cover-ops. Which isn't going to go unnoticed.

Agreed. No doubt the ensuing drama will be the kid telling his mother anyway what she said. Carol is on another trajectory to get booted from the community.

Who among Rick's group is going to accept that? They would not be alive if not for her. They will never be able to pay that back, as they were literally seconds away from being turned into food.

Accepting any attempt to banish her would make them utterly worthless as characters--just as self-serving as the Governor, or any other adversary.
 
Oh, Carol.

She is appealing even when making sinister zombie-bait-in-the-woods threats at a kid! She has become as strong a survivor as anyone in the history of the series.

Aaron just so happened to have bike parts in his garage--and offers it to daryl. Too fitting. Plus, all of that business about Daryl needing a bike seems like a means to send him to the next enemy and/or his death.

...or, is Aaron already planning to get rid of his boyfriend; he was not too pleased with him...

Daryl's hesitation about the guns mirrors his agreement with Tyreese about not going on a running death/rescue mission at Grady hospital. we know how that change in plans worked out, so I would not be surprised if his latest change of heart leads to disaster.

Rick beginning to obsess on the hairdresser seems like a set up, not to mentioned completely idiotic on his part.

Stamp: Historically, markings on the body have been used to identify enemies, victims or targets. Did Rick miss the "one of us" line regarding the "A" stamp? Does he fail to see a likely parallel between the "A" and latest "W" marking discovered?

Sasha does not buy any of it...but will she become too erratic before the ASZ can be transformed into something else? The flashbacks seem sort of dangerous.

Noah. Well, it was good to see Glenn and Maggie draw him in, but in the wake of finding his family slaughtered, I feel he may not be around for the long haul.

Michonne hanging up her sword seems--to me--telegraphed; a sign that yes, she will need to use it again, or someone else will. Possibly leading to the photo released several months ago, for those who pay attention to spoiler photos.

The entire ASZ situation seems like combinations of every threatening community Rick's group ever faced. The only thing ASZ lacks is cannibalism.

Carol's gone of the rails with her little speech to the kid and doing her little cover-ops. Which isn't going to go unnoticed.

Agreed. No doubt the ensuing drama will be the kid telling his mother anyway what she said. Carol is on another trajectory to get booted from the community.

Who among Rick's group is going to accept that? They would not be alive if not for her. They will never be able to pay that back, as they were literally seconds away from being turned into food.

Accepting any attempt to banish her would make them utterly worthless as characters--just as self-serving as the Governor, or any other adversary.

It could also be a hard sell for the Alexandria residents, too. To them, Carol is so squeaky-gosh-darn-diddly-arn clean that the boy's story would seem like a tall tale, the boy who cried wolf.
 
Adding to that, Carol is simply not insane or evil. Unlike the Governor, who killed for entirely unjustified reasons, such as stealing possessions / removing "threats" to his authority (National Guard unit / pilot), torture (Andrea, if the bruises on her face were an indicator) set walkers against the living, and outright murder (Merle, Milton, et al), Carol acts with no malice, greed or malevolent thought.

For the WD fans (on other boards) who claim to have "boiling blood" and "rage" over Carol's scare tactic, they conveniently skip over how motive is everything. Fans of this kind throw the Lizzie incident in as some sort of "proof," but skip over the fact Lizzie was beyond help, and would continue to murder in order to prove walkers were just "different" --not cannibalistic corpses.

I'm not too sure about that. Sure, Lizzie was a threat and there's a shortage of psychiatrists in the zombie apocalypse, but Carol's first instinct was to blow her brains out. If that were the only way to take care of "problem" children, then why didn't Carol also "take care" of Carl (KOOORRRRAAALLLL!) when he was a problem?

Also, I'm aware that Rick is the only survivor now that knows about Carol's actions in the prison, but if I were him, I'd get a little antsy the first time seasonal allergies hit Alexandria, or else Carol's likely to take a blowtorch to the place.
 
I'm not too sure about that. Sure, Lizzie was a threat and there's a shortage of psychiatrists in the zombie apocalypse, but Carol's first instinct was to blow her brains out.

Wrong. Carol's first instinct in dealing with Lizzie was to try to explain to her the real dangers walkers posed - several times - and she only used deadly force after Lizzie A.) killed her own sister and B.) threatened to kill a baby just to prove Carol wrong.

If that were the only way to take care of "problem" children, then why didn't Carol also "take care" of Carl (KOOORRRRAAALLLL!) when he was a problem?

Karl is aware of the problems walkers pose...and he hasn't stabbed his sister to death yet!
 
I'm not too sure about that. Sure, Lizzie was a threat and there's a shortage of psychiatrists in the zombie apocalypse, but Carol's first instinct was to blow her brains out. If that were the only way to take care of "problem" children, then why didn't Carol also "take care" of Carl (KOOORRRRAAALLLL!) when he was a problem?

The little kids name is also Carl? in any case, it wasn't practical to kill him w/o there being a larger investigation as to what happened.
 
^Wrong kid being discussed.
I'm not too sure about that. Sure, Lizzie was a threat and there's a shortage of psychiatrists in the zombie apocalypse, but Carol's first instinct was to blow her brains out. If that were the only way to take care of "problem" children, then why didn't Carol also "take care" of Carl (KOOORRRRAAALLLL!) when he was a problem?
Um, because Carl isn't a psychopath that thinks walkers and the living are all the same? Seriously, would you feel safe sleeping in the same room as Lizzie? Carl?
 
Are we forgetting when Carl was trigger happy and shot the kid in the face as he was dropping his weapon, or are we just pretending it never happened? Rick apparently thought it was a big enough problem he told Carl to mind the crops and take his gun away.
 
Are we forgetting when Carl was trigger happy and shot the kid in the face as he was dropping his weapon, or are we just pretending it never happened? Rick apparently thought it was a big enough problem he told Carl to mind the crops and take his gun away.

Nope, not forgetting that at all. We just realize the difference in the two situations. Carl was being a little trigger happy and cold blooded in a combat situation. Lizzie was showing classic signs of being a serial killer. Seriously, killing her unarmed little sister is wacked.
 
And it wasn't Carol's first instinct to kill Lizzie, she first wanted her and Lizzie to go off on their own while Tyreese and Judith continued to Terminus. But they didn't seem to think that was an ideal plan either.

The deal with Lizzie was that it was an imperfect, no-win, scenario. And it was agonizing for Carol to do what she did. Maybe that's part of what steeled her and made her go down this particular path, but it really was a case of what else could they do? Lizzie obviously had issues, issues that went beyond her simply not "getting" that the walkers weren't still people. She needed to be medicated and have counseling. Neither of which are in abundant supply right now. Lizzie was a problem and still a threat, what else could they do? It's hard to say they made the "right" choice but it really was a case of there not being much else at their disposal. Lizzie could not be trusted around other people. Even herself or just Carol. Leaving her alone is just as good as killing her, so...

Carl was a whole other case. The kid he killed in the woods outside the prison Carl saw as a threat and was able to reasonably justify it. I sort-of agree with him and think Rick and Hershel were out of line in thinking what Carl did was wrong. Carl asked the kid to drop the gun and the kid was trying to hand it over. This means for Carl to retrieve it he'd have to drop his own guard to get it giving the kid an opportunity to reclaim the balance of power and become a threat. When Carl lowered his gun the kid could step-in and overpower Carl now putting Carl, Herschel, Beth and Judith all at risk or when Carl lowered his gun the kid could re-fortify himself with his own gun and take Carl out, putting Herschel, Beth and Judith at risk.

Carl didn't try and to "justify" or rationalize what he did, he knew what he did wasn't "good" but he felt it was the right choice at the time. He'd seen others, including himself, not seize an opportunity to take someone out and for that to backfire. Most recently and more notably Rick not taking out one of the prisoners who later was able to set into motion the chaos at the prison that led to Lori's death.

But, Carl wasn't a lost-cause. He didn't think he had to kill people just to kill people, just kill people who could be threats, even if they probably weren't. A lot of air in there to say whether or not that's the right way to do things in this world but certainly not a case where Carl is enough of a threat that he needed to be stopped at any cost.

Lizzie was a lost-cause. She felt that the walkers were still "people" or at the very least not something to be afraid of and kill. (She really seemed to think of them more as pets. Like dogs.) She killed her sister and was moments away from killing a baby thinking this, this was after numerous cases of her being told to be afraid of the walkers and after numerous dangerous encounters with them. There wasn't much else to do as she clearly had mental issues that could not be dealt with in this world.

Lizzie and Carl? Very, very, different scenarios. Carl was recoverable and still had some emotion and humanity in him. And he still does. Lizzie was gone. She gleefully killed her sister and was ready to kill a baby that couldn't even walk yet because she felt that walkers were still something of sentient beings worthy of keeping around. There was almost nothing that could have been done with her.

"The Grove" is one of my more favorite episodes of the series because it's just such an F'ed up situation there's no good answer to and, ultimately, I think Carol made the "right" (or slightly less wrong for want of a better term) choice. At you can tell it broke and crushed her. And Tyreese taking her confession and forgiving her for killing Karen was a great scene too, as he likely saw Karen as something similar. She needed to be killed for something of a greater good. (Though I think Carol was wrong there due to a painfully huge misunderstanding of how viruses work.) And the no-win scenario with Lizzie is just really, really fantastic stuff.

But I think it's another bath on an arc to make Carol end up self-destructive as she becomes a darker and darker character, a much steeper arc than the one Rick is on. I'd almost argue Rick's arc isn't even leading him into being a dark character but just a "do what's necessary" leader. As we've seen him still have a degree of humanity and reason and logic in him.

Rick's first instincts going into this place was mostly one of caution and mistrust, he's slowly starting to maybe see the place as the haven it is and the people inside not as threats but as a community sheltered from the apocalypse.

Carol's first instincts were to not trust anyone and to start planning a subterfuge in order to infiltrate the community and potentially strike out if needed. That's almost psychotic of her or at the very least very devious and cunning. It's almost what The Governor was doing. The Governor putting on this good-ol' boy, aw-shucks charm of being an unwilling leader of a community when really behind it all he was much more devious and ruthless.

Would Carol really carry out her threat on the little boy? Knowing the places she's been as a person over the course of these events that's hard to say. I don't think it's clear if it was just talk to make the boy piss his pants and not tell anyone or if it was a genuine threat. And not knowing is what puts Carol on that darker arc because where she's been makes it seem probable she could carry this action out.

Rick's means of threatening someone, Aaron, is to tell him he has an hour for his story to work out. And Rick admits to being a "good guy" but still willing to carry out killing someone who may be a threat. Now, we know Rick enough that he likely would have killed the guy if no one came back within that time, meaning the guy was likely lying. But his killing of Aaron in that case would have been no different than when he killed the guys in the bar in Season 2 ("Nebraska") or Tomas in Season 3 (one of the prisoners who tried to kill Rick via walker.)

Carol's means of threatening someone, a child, is to scare the child to shit and suggest she's going to kill him in the cruelest possible way in this world.

Carol's on a dark arc and it'll be interesting to see how it pans out for her in the long run. I, honestly, don't think it's going to end well for her because she may be at an irrecoverable point.
 
Are we forgetting when Carl was trigger happy and shot the kid in the face as he was dropping his weapon, or are we just pretending it never happened? Rick apparently thought it was a big enough problem he told Carl to mind the crops and take his gun away.

Nope, not forgetting that at all. We just realize the difference in the two situations. Carl was being a little trigger happy and cold blooded in a combat situation. Lizzie was showing classic signs of being a serial killer. Seriously, killing her unarmed little sister is wacked.
Exactly. Carl may have been wrong to kill the kid. But he wasn't dropping the gun immediately and it's not unreasonable to think that he was just going to tackle Carl as soon as he took his eyes off him for the second to pick up the gun. Given the situation he couldn't really trust him at all. I feel worse that Carl was put in that situation instead that he killed the kid, it's hard enough for adults.
 
Carl had no choice. Rick basically made Judith's safety Carl's responsibility. The kid wasn't going to do anything that can even remotely let his sister be threatened.

Given the family of protectors around Judith, she's probably the safest human in the ZA.
 
Yeah, Herschel and Rick were way too hard on Carl for what he did there. The kid was a potential threat. Carl said to drop the gun the kid was trying to hand it over. Rick is a (was a) former police officer/sheriff. He should know very well that someone with a gun in their hands is a *threat* and if they're not doing what you say there's few options at your disposal.

For Carl to get the gun he'd have to lower his own gun, that'd give the kid an opportunity. Now, we know the kid was an unwilling participant in the Governor's raid and was an asthmatic even. But Carl doesn't know that, the kid was a threat.

And while Carl didn't regret what he did you can see it bothers him as a something he had little choice in, particularly in light of everything that happened as a result of not taking more aggressive action during everything that had happened at the prison.

Carl's situation is very, very different than Lizzie's. Carl still has humanity in him and isn't one to or quick to just kill someone just because. Lizzie was off the rails.
 
I thought Carol took the last of the chocolate to give herself an alibi if caught. Chocolate to bake more cookies. Carol can always say something like the kid (Sam?) wanted more cookies and when she didn't give them to him he threatened to tell a crazy vindictive story to try to scare her into doing what he wanted. She didn't take him seriously.
I saw the actress who played Lizzie on an old episode of NCIS. She played a younger Abby. Her hair was dark but she was recognizable by her wide eyes.
 
I thought Carol took the last of the chocolate to give herself an alibi if caught. Chocolate to bake more cookies. Carol can always say something like the kid (Sam?) wanted more cookies and when she didn't give them to him he threatened to tell a crazy vindictive story to try to scare her into doing what he wanted. She didn't take him seriously.
I saw the actress who played Lizzie on an old episode of NCIS. She played a younger Abby. Her hair was dark but she was recognizable by her wide eyes.

I dunno, the chocolate alibi is a pretty convoluted story. She'd still have to explain or justify breaking into the pantry in order to get the chocolate just to bake cookies for some dumbass kid and then make it seem like she really believed/fell-for the kid's threats to make up stories about her if she didn't do it AND that she thought his threats were serious enough she felt she had to break in to the place to get the chocolate.

It's a very, very complicated ruse to go down that route.
 
It ain't gonna matter anyway. All this underhanded shit is gonna be front page news soon enough. Either that or some new problem will make it all pointless
 
Well, anyone who knows women knows we'd break into anyplace to get chocolate. And she could say that she was going to use it to bake cookies, (and not because of threats from a kid) but most adults would think she just wanted to eat it. No chocolate would be one of the worst deprivations of the apocalypse. Yeah, I agree that kid is going to tell either his mother or his brother.
I think Carol could concoct a story that people (maybe not his mother) would believe because she looks so normal in this world. Plus she would be good at looking like a victim because she used to be one. It looked like there was just a jumble of weapons, no real organization so they might not be able to tell if any were missing.
 
So it just happens to be the name of the street of the filming location and likely in the end doesn't mean anything beyond, at most, a neat little easter egg.
 
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