Alien5: It's a Bug Hunt (pre-release thread)

[Locutus of Bored]

I don't know, Scott sure seemed intent on implying that the Engineers remained active shepherds of humanity until about 2,000 years ago, when they abandoned us because we were dicks to Jesus (we'll leave out the Bible-ey part where Jesus wanted to sacrifice himself and had a human family, and how it would probably be noted somewhere if he was a 10-foot tall bald alien bodybuilder with pearly white skin and black eyes, but I digress).

Movies.com: You throw religion and spirituality into the equation for Prometheus, though, and it almost acts as a hand grenade. We had heard it was scripted that the Engineers were targeting our planet for destruction because we had crucified one of their representatives, and that Jesus Christ might have been an alien. Was that ever considered?

RS: We definitely did, and then we thought it was a little too on the nose. But if you look at it as an “our children are misbehaving down there” scenario, there are moments where it looks like we’ve gone out of control, running around with armor and skirts, which of course would be the Roman Empire. And they were given a long run. A thousand years before their disintegration actually started to happen. And you can say, “Lets’ send down one more of our emissaries to see if he can stop it. Guess what? They crucified him.

http://www.movies.com/movie-news/ridley-scott-prometheus-interview/8232

That's after the film had already come out, so it's not some early idea which he abandoned later on. He didn't include in the film because it was "a little too on the nose," but clearly he envisioned the Engineers guiding humanity until we rejected them first, and the cave paintings reflect that.

 

[Tulin]

I thought it pretty obvious that the Engineers started life on earth. You see him break up and some new DNA is created from his break up. But if the Engineers thought humanity needed to be governed, destroyed or ruled they could have done it already.

The Engineer who drank the black goo and started life on earth was a rogue. A rebel. He was Prometheus, giving the gift of "fire." The Engineers left the planet before seeing the results of his actions.

When the Engineer on LV-223 encounters Weyland, it realizes what Prometheus' act had created and its reaction is "Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis." And so it kills Weyland, decapitates David, and sets out to destroy everything human it can find.

And why does this happen? Hubris. Hubris on Shaw's part, thinking that the cave markings were an "invitation," and hubris on Weyland's part, thinking that he was going to be granted immortality.

And in the end, it all ties into the theme of the film, that some things are better left alone. Even the Engineers realized that the black goo was more powerful than they gave it credit for and they didn't know the true scope of its characteristics.

Edit: And this is why Ridley Scott is an absolute master craftsman. He's brilliant at giving you tiny hints and then telling you, "You figure it out." He doesn't spoon-feed the audience every single minute detail, but rather gives tiny hints along the way, and this is largely due to his background as an art director prior to moving into film direction. This discussion reminds me of people who nit-pick Khan never taking off his other glove in The Wrath of Khan -- why do you think he didn't take off the other glove?

There's no indication that the Engineer at the start of the movie was a rogue and as it was pointed out Engineers and Humans have similar DNA, so it's obvious he was sacificed to start life on Earth. And no the Engineer didn't kill Weyland because of hubris, there was no reason for him to be angry at all, let alone kill Weyland and behead David. And remember the movie was written by Damon Lindelhof and it shows.

This.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

This.

Do you actually have anything to contribute to this discussion besides insults and spammy "This" posts? I disagree with Timby's interpretation of the film too, but at least he's actually thinking and backing up his opinion instead of just piggybacking on the opinions of others and throwing out petty drive-bys.

 

[Marsden]

He was already on a mission to kill all humans, so when he wakes up and finds them standing in his ship, he freaks the fuck out.

You made me think of Bender.


Maybe that Engineer wasn't representative of them all because he was just woken up?


You think JMS's writing is bad? That should probably go in another thread, though.

 

[Mr Light]

Babylon 5 is my all time favorite show, and I love JMS, but I will freely admit he has his weaknesses, mainly that he's been telling the same story over and over again, even recycling lines of dialogue, in everything post-B5. It's certainly understandable... B5 was his magnum opus and he poured everything he had into it.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

When it comes to characters acting stupidly, the original Alien had characters do dumb things.

The worst offense may have been sending Brett off by himself to get the cat. At the time it came out, one woman I knew complained that Lambert froze and simply let the alien kill her.

I have to ding the film a little for being unable to help itself, so to speak, and include clichéd character behavior of the kind seemingly in every grade-Z horror film. However, Alien distinguishes itself in so many other ways that I still rate it highly.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

t offense may have been sending Brett off by himself to get the cat.

You mean when they probably thought the alien was still smaller than the cat?

Besides the Nostromo crew was space truckers being sent to recover something possibly and haul it back to earth dangerous not scientists on an important mission where they may be called on by Weyland to help work with alien science things at some point.

 

[DWF]

Alien is a horror movie and horror movies generally have some pretty stupid characters in them. But at least Alien was a well crafted and well cast movie.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

t offense may have been sending Brett off by himself to get the cat.

You mean when they probably thought the alien was still smaller than the cat?

Yeah, after they saw the alien smaller than a cat kill one of their fellow crewmen from the inside out, so there was no doubt that it was extremely deadly, and they'd already thought it prudent to go after it in groups with the aid of a scanner. Yes, at that time.

 

[DWF]

t offense may have been sending Brett off by himself to get the cat.

You mean when they probably thought the alien was still smaller than the cat?

Yeah, after they saw the alien smaller than a cat kill one of their fellow crewmen from the inside out, so there was no doubt that it was extremely deadly, and they'd already thought it prudent to go after it in groups with the aid of a scanner. Yes, at that time.

And if ASh had followed proper procedure the alien would've confined to the airlock and not gotten onboard in the first place.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Yeah, after they saw the alien smaller than a cat kill one of their fellow crewmen from the inside out, so there was no doubt that it was extremely deadly,

Except it did that by bursting out of his chest where it had be incubating other than that it didn't look that dangerous until in grew into the man sized killing machine.

And if ASh had followed proper procedure the alien would've confined to the airlock and not gotten onboard in the first place.

Well considering he was trying to get the dangerous alien back to Earth and was told not to give a shit if it kills everyone else, he's actually doing his job. Its just an evil job.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

You mean when they probably thought the alien was still smaller than the cat?

Yeah, after they saw the alien smaller than a cat kill one of their fellow crewmen from the inside out, so there was no doubt that it was extremely deadly, and they'd already thought it prudent to go after it in groups with the aid of a scanner. Yes, at that time.

And if ASh had followed proper procedure the alien would've confined to the airlock and not gotten onboard in the first place.

I'm not sure I understand your point. Ash's behavior there doesn't qualify as "stupid character behavior." Ash's behavior is completely logical given his orders and programming, and in fact the whole Ash subplot is one of the brilliant elements of the movie. You might even say that the Ash subplot takes the trope of characters-in-horror-films-doing-stupid-things and turns it on its head, by justifying the idea that Ash is deliberately helping the creature.

Even the fact that Ripley was the only human character caring about the quarantine rules doesn't make the behavior of the other humans inexplicably stupid. The captain not being ready to be a self-sacrificing hero would be enough to explain why he wasn't super-concerned about the quarantine, and that even defines part of his character's arc as he later decides to heroically assume responsibility to fix things by going into the air vents alone. My interpretation is that that would have worked, had Ash not sabotaged their efforts. Remember, it was Ash who designed the scanners that inexplicably lost contact with the creature.

Yeah, after they saw the alien smaller than a cat kill one of their fellow crewmen from the inside out, so there was no doubt that it was extremely deadly,

Except it did that by bursting out of his chest where it had be incubating other than that it didn't look that dangerous until in grew into the man sized killing machine.

Sorry, but what doesn't make any sense would be the idea that they would consider even the little alien not to be a threat. The characters knew better because they were traveling in teams to begin with, and sending characters off by themselves is one of the oldest horror movie clichés there is.

 

[DWF]

Yeah, after they saw the alien smaller than a cat kill one of their fellow crewmen from the inside out, so there was no doubt that it was extremely deadly, and they'd already thought it prudent to go after it in groups with the aid of a scanner. Yes, at that time.

And if ASh had followed proper procedure the alien would've confined to the airlock and not gotten onboard in the first place.

I'm not sure I understand your point. Ash's behavior there doesn't qualify as "stupid character behavior." Ash's behavior is completely logical given his orders and programming, and in fact the whole Ash subplot is one of the brilliant elements of the movie. You might even say that the Ash subplot takes the trope of characters-in-horror-films-doing-stupid-things and turns it on its head, by justifying the idea that Ash is deliberately helping the creature.

Even the fact that Ripley was the only human character caring about the quarantine rules doesn't make the behavior of the other humans inexplicably stupid. The captain not being ready to be a self-sacrificing hero would be enough to explain why he wasn't super-concerned about the quarantine, and that even defines part of his character's arc as he later decides to heroically assume responsibility to fix things by going into the air vents alone. My interpretation is that that would have worked, had Ash not sabotaged their efforts. Remember, it was Ash who designed the scanners that inexplicably lost contact with the creature.

Characters in horror movies are generally stupid by nature. As for Ash's actions, he put the lives of the crew and himself at risk. When it comes to horror movies the audience generally knows what going on before the characters do, Dallas shouldn't gone into the air vents on his own ad Brett shouldn't have gone after the cat by himself, that's one more hallmark of a horror movie. Ash malfunctioned and tried to kill Ripley for that matter, I can't really say that was a smart move on his part.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

And if ASh had followed proper procedure the alien would've confined to the airlock and not gotten onboard in the first place.

I'm not sure I understand your point. Ash's behavior there doesn't qualify as "stupid character behavior." Ash's behavior is completely logical given his orders and programming, and in fact the whole Ash subplot is one of the brilliant elements of the movie. You might even say that the Ash subplot takes the trope of characters-in-horror-films-doing-stupid-things and turns it on its head, by justifying the idea that Ash is deliberately helping the creature.

Even the fact that Ripley was the only human character caring about the quarantine rules doesn't make the behavior of the other humans inexplicably stupid. The captain not being ready to be a self-sacrificing hero would be enough to explain why he wasn't super-concerned about the quarantine, and that even defines part of his character's arc as he later decides to heroically assume responsibility to fix things by going into the air vents alone. My interpretation is that that would have worked, had Ash not sabotaged their efforts. Remember, it was Ash who designed the scanners that inexplicably lost contact with the creature.

Characters in horror movies are generally stupid by nature. As for Ash's actions, he put the lives of the crew and himself at risk. When it comes to horror movies the audience generally knows what going on before the characters do, Dallas shouldn't gone into the air vents on his own ad Brett shouldn't have gone after the cat by himself, that's one more hallmark of a horror movie. Ash malfunctioned and tried to kill Ripley for that matter, I can't really say that was a smart move on his part.

Ash tried to kill Ripley before she could warn the others, because she found out about the secret order that the computer and Ash had been following to bring the creature back to Earth. Under that order the whole crew was expendable, Ash included. Of course Ash put the lives of the crew and himself at risk. Ash's plan was probably to try to make it look like the alien had killed Ripley, so that the others wouldn't suspect him.

 

[Nightowl1701]

^ Once Ripley saw that order, all remaining humans on the ship were forfeit and Ash knew it. Even if they'd shown up a few crucial moments later, no way would Parker or Lambert believe the alien stuffed a magazine down Ripley's throat. At that point they were more hindrance than help anyway. Dallas and Brett were already being converted into eggs (one or both of which would no doubt spawn a Queen), so mission accomplished - three living specimens to bring back to the Company.

Well, maybe Lambert would have been spared - just so she could be forced to go egg-gazing and then be frozen so Company execs could see the Xeno lifecycle in full...

 

[CorporalCaptain]

^ Once Ripley saw that order, all remaining humans on the ship were forfeit and Ash knew it. Even if they'd shown up a few crucial moments later, no way would Parker or Lambert believe the alien stuffed a magazine down Ripley's throat. At that point they were more hindrance than help anyway. Dallas and Brett were already being converted into eggs (one or both of which would no doubt spawn a Queen), so mission accomplished - three living specimens to bring back to the Company.

Well, maybe Lambert would have been spared - just so she could be forced to go egg-gazing and then be frozen so Company execs could see the Xeno lifecycle in full...

Well, I didn't think he was just going to leave the magazine in Ripley's throat so that they'd know right away that he killed her.... Yeah, Ash was going to get rid of them, but I figured it would be to his advantage to string them along just a little while longer until he was sure he could take them all out.

Who was next in command anyway, after Ripley? Ash almost certainly outranked Parker, because he was getting more shares than Parker. Did Ash outrank Lambert?

 

[Nightowl1701]

It would have been a tossup between Ash and Lambert, and Lambert was on the verge of a mental meltdown as it was. She would have again called for the crew (now down to three) to get in the lifeboat and go - which Ash would've rejected. ("We don't know for certain that Dallas and Brett are dead. We can't leave until we know for sure...") Parker would've flat out refused to take Ash's orders, and likely would have gotten violent if Ash pressed the point - at which point the mask comes off and we're back to the human crew being forfeit.

 

[Nightowl1701]

https://games.yahoo.com/news/blomkamps-alien-movie-direct-sequel-001543969.html

Sooooo.... sounds like we're going the Superman Returns route. No sidetrip to Fiorina 161, no lousy video game, no cloning two centuries later. We're gonna finally get the movie the Alien3 teaser trailer promised.

Thoughts?

 

[Awesome Possum]

I like Alien 3, but I'm fine with the new movie being a sequel to Aliens. It at least allows it to ignore Resurrection.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

https://games.yahoo.com/news/blomkamps-alien-movie-direct-sequel-001543969.html

Sooooo.... sounds like we're going the Superman Returns route. No sidetrip to Fiorina 161, no lousy video game, no cloning two centuries later. We're gonna finally get the movie the Alien3 teaser trailer promised.

Thoughts?