Gotham - Season 1
- Thread starter Agent Richard07
- Start date
They said from the start that they'd be hinting at Joker candidates in virtually every episode, although they seemed to abandon that plan.
The guy in the episode looks like a teenager to me. Anyway, Cesar Romero was 21 years older than Adam West, though the comics' Joker is generally portrayed as being in his prime and able to take Batman on physically.
There is an upcoming episode featuring the Red Hood Gang.
I'd say quite the opposite in terms of physicality. Joker has rarely been portrayed as a physical match for Batman. He's not that type of villain.
As for his age; I agree that he's usually portrayed as being in the same age bracket as Bruce, but I've always had a general feeling that he is the older of the two, so him being 5-10 years older than Bruce in this show wouldn't be out of place for me.
In fact, the very first Joker story back in 1940 had a scene where the Joker punched and kicked Batman unconscious, then pushed him off a bridge. Batman was revived by hitting the water, and as he climbed out of the river, he thought to himself, "It seems I've at last met a foe that can give me a good fight!" So the Joker was conceived from the start as a physical match for Batman. They had regular fistfights in their early encounters, from what I can find. That diminished in the '50s, but by then, comics violence was being toned down across the board.
When Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams reintroduced the Joker as a murderous character in "The Joker's Five-Way Revenge" in 1973, the very first confrontation between the Batman and Joker in the issue happened almost exactly as in their first story: Joker punches and kicks Batman in the head, knocking him out (although in this version he takes Batman by surprise rather than clocking him face-on). This version of the Joker was useless against Batman when he didn't have the element of surprise, but he was still portrayed as a spry and physical capable individual. Which seems to be consistent with his portrayal ever since. If he's less of a match for Batman in modern times, though, it's more because Batman's own abilities have been ramped up in later stories.
The Joker was pretty physical in the DC Animated Universe too. The train-top battle between Batman and the Joker at the climax of "Mad Love" (both the original comic set in the B:TAS universe and the later screen adaptation of it) also comes to mind.
Um... In 1940, did your average American know the word Ninja?
1940's Bruce Wayne probably had combat training somewhere inbetween Army bootcamp and what's taught at a YWCA on Thursday nights.
1940's Bruce Wayne probably had combat training somewhere inbetween Army bootcamp and what's taught at a YWCA on Thursday nights.
It's not called anything "Centre" in NY or Gotham...this is America, dammit!
Pearl Harbour.
The actor (Cameron Monaghan) is 21, but he typically plays characters who are four or five years younger, and he has a youngish-looking face that can pull it off. On Shameless his character is currently 17, and I think he played a 16-year-old in The Giver.
Don't forget he also beat Jason Todd to death with a crowbar. Granted Todd was just a teenager, or in his 20s, but it still shows that the Joker wasn't above getting up close and personal with his victims.
I find it kind of ironic given my earlier post, but CBR has an interview with Victoria Cartagena, the actress who plays Montoya, and it definitely sounds like we haven't seen the last of her and Allen.
Jason had just crawled out of an exploded building.
Literally crawled.
Robin was fish in a barrel.
Literally crawled.
Robin was fish in a barrel.
Dr. Funkenstein
Lieutenant Commander
One thing I like about this series is that they're all but proving Batman didn't really create all the supervillains in Gotham. Sure, going costumey might have transitioned them from lunatics to costumed lunatics, but Gotham was chock-full of psychopaths before he came onto the scene.
(That's often one criticism he gets, as an aside; that if it wasn't for Batman, there wouldn't be any villains.)
(That's often one criticism he gets, as an aside; that if it wasn't for Batman, there wouldn't be any villains.)
Yeah, I kind of like the concept of Gotham being a city that desperately needs a Batman.
I agree there are times when he has been portrayed as a physical match for Batman, but I would argue that that isn't how he is "generally" portrayed, certainly not in the last 40 years. Granted, I'm not as familiar with the early Batman books as I am with the ones from the 1970's onwards, but I would still maintain that he's not that type of foe for Batman.
Sure, he's by no means a frail old man, and is capable of delivering a severe beating if he gets you in a position to do so (like his beating of Jason Todd, which JD referenced), but in a straight up fist fight with Batman? I doubt he'd last long without having to employ a weapon or device to gain the upper hand.
^Yes, but my point was not to say that Joker could beat Batman as a rule, since hardly anyone could -- just that he was a young, healthy, and reasonably strong individual who was capable of fighting in general and who has been known to employ physical violence on a regular basis. As JD said, one of the things the modern Joker is most known for is beating Jason Todd to death. So he is a physical type of villain, the kind who does indeed use his fists as well as guns, gimmicks, and strategems.
Heck, even Cesar Romero's Joker participated in the fight scenes, and Romero was 59 at the start of the series. Of course, stunt doubles did most of the fighting, but the Joker was not one of the villains who held back and let the henchmen do the biff-pow-zlopp stuff. In his very first episode, there's a scene where he gets his hands around Batman's throat and strangles him, which was surprisingly vicious for that show.
Heck, even Cesar Romero's Joker participated in the fight scenes, and Romero was 59 at the start of the series. Of course, stunt doubles did most of the fighting, but the Joker was not one of the villains who held back and let the henchmen do the biff-pow-zlopp stuff. In his very first episode, there's a scene where he gets his hands around Batman's throat and strangles him, which was surprisingly vicious for that show.
As I understand it, Dozier's original idea for the show was much darker and more serious, probably along the lines of Green Hornet at least. If you just look at the first few episodes you can see this. The first episode with the Riddler was actually pretty chilling, and when I watched it with my (then) 8-year-old a couple of years ago, he was too scared to watch the whole thing. The network wanted a tongue-in-cheek comedy so that is what the show quickly became.
I remember a Batman comic I read in the 60's where he was going up against a professional boxer and resorted to soaking his gloves in anesthetic to take him down. Of course the current Batman would take out a boxer in seconds. His portrayal has certainly increased his prowess by an order of magnitude. The early Joker was a match for Batman, at least in some circumstances. Would the Joker ever be a match for Ra's al Gul, Bane, or Killer Croc? Don't think so. Examples of Joker being a match of Batman are from another era and don't apply across the board. It's like comparing the 1933 Superman to Darkseid.
I remember a Batman comic I read in the 60's where he was going up against a professional boxer and resorted to soaking his gloves in anesthetic to take him down. Of course the current Batman would take out a boxer in seconds. His portrayal has certainly increased his prowess by an order of magnitude. The early Joker was a match for Batman, at least in some circumstances. Would the Joker ever be a match for Ra's al Gul, Bane, or Killer Croc? Don't think so. Examples of Joker being a match of Batman are from another era and don't apply across the board. It's like comparing the 1933 Superman to Darkseid.
I'm pretty sure Joker beat him first - it was AFTER the crowbar smashing that the building exploded.
You're right. Robin/Jason was perfectly healthy when the Joker beat him.
http://s724.photobucket.com/user/Georgethecat/media/jason%20todd/Batman427-34.jpg.html?t=1280156246
Robin is standing and unbound; if anything is holding him back, it's probably his reluctance to endanger his mother, even though she's just led him into a trap. The Joker pistol-whips Robin in the face, then kicks him in the head (that seems to be his perennial favorite move).
http://s724.photobucket.com/user/Georgethecat/media/jason todd/Batman427-35.jpg.html?t=1280156246
Robin then gets one punch in, but then he's punched in the face and kicked in the gut by one of the Joker's burly henchmen, and that's when the Joker picks up the crowbar and beats him unconscious. He later wakes up to find his mother tied up next to a time bomb. He manages to free her, she helps him stagger to the door, but they don't get far enough to survive the explosion.
Did the big sexy black man kick Robin in the guts or the nuts?
It's not called anything "Centre" in NY or Gotham...this is America, dammit!
We'll just call it "that there building" then.
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