DS9 = WORST Star Trek Series EVER

[Kobayshi Maru]

No, I'm merely putting it all in perspective and context: what happens in real life and in the show. The fact that children may have died in Sisko's attack has no clear hold on the moral debate over his actions. And yes, his actions and decisions deserve scrutiny. Civilians die in war, and their deaths are often considered justifiable. Generals won't hesistate to attack a target just because because people who either have not or cannot consent to the conflict are present. In universe, SF's record of arresting and prosecuting people who make decisions based upon one or other understanding of Realpolitik is very weak. And to be clear, the Federation never put Worf on trial for destroying the transport. The Klingons asked for a hearing for extradition.

The point being that Sisko HIMSELF, not starfleet, not the Klingons, said that worf was at fault. And a few months later he turns around and commits a deliberate attack on children. Cant' you see that Sisko's action is ten times worse than Worf's? In worf's case it was an accident, in Worf's case he was having nightmares about it. Sisko has neither extenuating circumstances and he's even guiltier still since as worf's commanding officer, he should have known better.

Do you realize now how much worse Sisko's situation is than Worf's?

I don't believe that hypocrisy is outlawed in the Federation. I also don't believe that it is possible to separate the darkness from the light, as Silaran Prin insisted.

Am I the only one to sense that this conversation is an exercise in futility?

 

[fireproof78]

The point being that Sisko HIMSELF, not starfleet, not the Klingons, said that worf was at fault. And a few months later he turns around and commits a deliberate attack on children. Cant' you see that Sisko's action is ten times worse than Worf's? In worf's case it was an accident, in Worf's case he was having nightmares about it. Sisko has neither extenuating circumstances and he's even guiltier still since as worf's commanding officer, he should have known better.

Do you realize now how much worse Sisko's situation is than Worf's?

I don't believe that hypocrisy is outlawed in the Federation. I also don't believe that it is possible to separate the darkness from the light, as Silaran Prin insisted.

Am I the only one to sense that this conversation is an exercise in futility?

Why? We are engaging in an exchange of ideas, and learning about each others perspectives.

 

[JD5000]

You are not the only one, Kobayshi Maru. It seems to be a case of different people having different perspectives, trying to convince each other that their moral/ethical point of view is the correct one. Many of these posts are just re-wordings of concepts or ideas already presented.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

The point being that Sisko HIMSELF, not starfleet, not the Klingons, said that worf was at fault. And a few months later he turns around and commits a deliberate attack on children. Cant' you see that Sisko's action is ten times worse than Worf's? In worf's case it was an accident, in Worf's case he was having nightmares about it. Sisko has neither extenuating circumstances and he's even guiltier still since as worf's commanding officer, he should have known better.

Do you realize now how much worse Sisko's situation is than Worf's?

I don't believe that hypocrisy is outlawed in the Federation. I also don't believe that it is possible to separate the darkness from the light, as Silaran Prin insisted.

Am I the only one to sense that this conversation is an exercise in futility?

I'm not asking you to change your mind about anything, only that you recognize that there are various perspectives, in reality and in the fictional universe, where these issues are debated without clear resolution.

 

[kkt]

I think the problem is Kobayshi Maru thinks Starfleet officers should be portrayed as acting perfect, always finding a deus ex machina to get them out of a hard choice, even resorting to a load of technobabble nonsense to do it. The essence of drama is a character making a hard choice with no right answer.

How would Sisko feel if he let Eddington and the Maquis go and they made several Cardassian settled worlds in the DMZ uninhabitable? Perhaps killing Cardassian children along the way?

How do you feel about the bombing raids on Dresden? Minimal military value, lots of civilians and art. Should we portray Churchill and Eisenhower as immoral people because it happened on their watch? One of the horrors of war is that it makes good people do bad things.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

I don't believe that hypocrisy is outlawed in the Federation. I also don't believe that it is possible to separate the darkness from the light, as Silaran Prin insisted.

Am I the only one to sense that this conversation is an exercise in futility?

Why? We are engaging in an exchange of ideas, and learning about each others perspectives.

Yes, there's that...

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

I think the problem is Kobayshi Maru thinks Starfleet officers should be portrayed as acting perfect, always finding a deus ex machina to get them out of a hard choice, even resorting to a load of technobabble nonsense to do it. The essence of drama is a character making a hard choice with no right answer.

How would Sisko feel if he let Eddington and the Maquis go and they made several Cardassian settled worlds in the DMZ uninhabitable? Perhaps killing Cardassian children along the way?

How do you feel about the bombing raids on Dresden? Minimal military value, lots of civilians and art. Should we portray Churchill and Eisenhower as immoral people because it happened on their watch? One of the horrors of war is that it makes good people do bad things.

I'd thank you to keep to the things I've actually said instead of those that your psychic powers allowed you to extract from my mind. You don't want to reveal your true nature on a public forum, do you?

 

[kkt]

That is my impression of your view. If that impression is wrong, why don't you tell us what your views actually are, instead of resorting to snark.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

That is my impression of your view. If that impression is wrong, why don't you tell us what your views actually are, instead of resorting to snark.

I don't think Starfleet officers should be perfect. Not attempting to kill children is not being perfect, as a matter of fact, it's being normal.

 

[IndyTechTrekkie]

Well, its definitely a star trek series that re-invents itself every couple of seasons. I think this is one of its strengths.

The overall plot is the Dominion. How they are discovered, their interactions with other groups, etc. I don't want to ruin it for you, but it is well done.

Along the way you have a TON of sub-plots.

Bajor
The Cardassians
the maquis
Garak (I include him seperately because he really is his own arc)
o'brien and bashir arcs.
Klingons have several story arcs.

I couldn't really do them justice, but I have to say it is one of the best Star Trek series out there.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Well, its definitely a star trek series that re-invents itself every couple of seasons. I think this is one of its strengths.

The overall plot is the Dominion. How they are discovered, their interactions with other groups, etc. I don't want to ruin it for you, but it is well done.

Along the way you have a TON of sub-plots.

Bajor
The Cardassians
the maquis
Garak (I include him seperately because he really is his own arc)
o'brien and bashir arcs.
Klingons have several story arcs.

I couldn't really do them justice, but I have to say it is one of the best Star Trek series out there.

The war with the Klingons helped to shake things up.

 

[kirkfan]

It is the only Star Trek series that I turned off during the pilot episode because it was so awful. I never watched the series after that. I have only seen a handful of DS9 episodes. I saw the finale when it aired & it was insultingly dumb, and it wasn't just me who had that exact same sentiment. Every time I watch DS9 it makes me cringe & not want to see more of it.

They had no ship, and just sat on a space station. Sitting of the Station week after week was big turn off. That worked out so well for the series that by season 3 they added the Defiant to help out the serious flagging DS9 series. DS9 was so awful it was the first & only Star Trek series that hired an actor from a previous series (Michael Dorn) to reprise their character role (Worf) as permanent cast member addition. I was shocked that the writers felt that a Star Trek show didn’t need a real ship for exploration & wasn’t surprised that by season 3 they introduced the Defiant as a ship permanently assigned to Deep Space Nine (the runabout idea was a really seemed like someone’s idea of a bad joke since it really wasn’t designed for long range deep space exploration nor was it capable of real defense of the space station).
Now that DS9 is on Netflix I have tried to watch it again. I have gotten 12 episodes in & they are just awful. Even mediocre would be a huge improvement for DS9.
I will give Deep Space Nine credit that once the Defiant was introduced they did encounter more new alien races & explore more that The Next Generation.

I disagree, DS9, in my opinion, is not the worst star trek series ever, nor the second worst, nor the third... but I think I'll stop there.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Well, its definitely a star trek series that re-invents itself every couple of seasons. I think this is one of its strengths.

The overall plot is the Dominion. How they are discovered, their interactions with other groups, etc. I don't want to ruin it for you, but it is well done.

Along the way you have a TON of sub-plots.

Bajor
The Cardassians
the maquis
Garak (I include him seperately because he really is his own arc)
o'brien and bashir arcs.
Klingons have several story arcs.

I couldn't really do them justice, but I have to say it is one of the best Star Trek series out there.

The war with the Klingons helped to shake things up.

I think the Klingon war was a mistake. They only added it to give Worf story when he joined. It made sense to have the Dominion try to break up the Federation/Klingon alliance by playing them against each other but it would have worked better with a slower buildup instead of a sudden reversal.

Anyway the show made it clear that the toxin Sisko released was only toxic to humans after very prolonged exposure. The decision certainly was morally dubious but let's not negate the writer's contrivances to make it less so by fiat. No humans died. The show said so.

 

[JD5000]

let's not negate the writer's contrivances to make it less so by fiat. No humans died. The show said so.

Oh goodness, here we go again.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

let's not negate the writer's contrivances to make it less so by fiat. No humans died. The show said so.

Oh goodness, here we go again.

Seriously, stuff comes up over and over again whether it's Sisko's decision here or the realism of human evolution or the lack of money. What's the point of caring about a fictional universe if you're going to constantly call BS on it? Either you suspend disbelief or you don't.

 

[kirkfan]

let's not negate the writer's contrivances to make it less so by fiat. No humans died. The show said so.

Oh goodness, here we go again.

Seriously, stuff comes up over and over again whether it's Sisko's decision here or the realism of human evolution or the lack of money. What's the point of caring about a fictional universe if you're going to constantly call BS on it? Either you suspend disbelief or you don't.

I think the question is where each of us draws the line? That's where the opinions diverge.

 

[JD5000]

Someone has to do it....

I think the question is where each of us draws the line?

The line must be drawn here! This far, no farther! And I will make them pay for what they have done!

And Lily looked at him like, WTF is wrong with you!?

 

[kirkfan]

Someone has to do it....

I think the question is where each of us draws the line?

The line must be drawn here! This far, no farther! And I will make them pay for what they have done!

And Lily looked at him like, WTF is wrong with you!?

I appreciate the parallel but I was talking about suspension of disbelief.

Picard was going all Ahab on us...

Besides, there's also Quark in The Dogs Of War...

 

[JD5000]

Ahem....there are four lights.

 

[kirkfan]

Ahem....there are four lights.

From Chain Of Command, but what are you alluding to?