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TNG Rewatch: 5x25 - "The Inner Light"

If that's reasonable then I guess you guys don't mind if I call the Vulcan nerve pinch "mobility-rape" then? Or when a guy is unwillingly knocked out by Kirk with a double fisted punch, he/she has been Kirk raped. :rolleyes: Troi is also engaging in throught-rape every time she reads a persons mind without their permission. I think it's in bad taste.

Rape is an intentional violation of a person by force. Sorry for anyone that can't come to grips with that. :shrug:
 
I said everyone knew what I thought of the episode so we could avoid going down this road, yet again.
 
Rape doesn't only have to mean "violent sexual assault" it also can mean to pillage or to destroy. By saying "mind rape" you're not diminishing the notion of sexual assault on people, you're just describing an extreme circumstance where someone unwillingly has their mind plundered by external means.

If that's reasonable then I guess you guys don't mind if I call the Vulcan nerve pinch "mobility-rape" then? Or when a guy is unwillingly knocked out by Kirk with a double fisted punch, he/she has been Kirk raped. :rolleyes: Troi is also engaging in throught-rape every time she reads a persons mind without their permission. I think it's in bad taste.

And why only one flute? Why not the cultural heritage on a couple of USB-sticks or something? Of all things....a flute...from a random person. ;)

Maybe all the USB sticks fell out during the launch ;)

Deanna could even be called a serial thought-rapist, for hire, since she does it when Picard asks.
 
Reading someone's mind is thought or mind theft. Pushing thought or brainwashing or other forms of mind control are mind rape.

One of the best parts of Deja Q is when Deanna reads mortal Q & he responds "How rude!" :lol: That's exactly what it is
 
Deanna could even be called a serial thought-rapist, for hire, since she does it when Picard asks.

Deanna reads what she perceives, that's not rape. She's not forcing herself into another's mind, with them fighting it, and forcing them to think/experience what tyey do not want. In Nemesis we get a good example of "mind rape" when the Reman viceroy helps Shinzon to force himself into Deanna's mind.
 
Troi is accessing parts of people that they don't want her to be able to access, and they are usually powerless to stop her. Is that not forcing herself on them? Forcing them to experience having their private thoughts read. (Of course not, but that's the kind of silliness that throwing this wide open definition around opens up.) Totally negative spin on Troi, negative spin on the dream of Inner light.
 
It's never seemed to me that Troi's empathic ability was an invasive process, or even Lwaxanna's telepathic ability. It always seemed to be more of passive one, saying that they're violating someone by reading their thoughts/emotions is like saying I'm violating someone by hearing or looking at them.

That's worlds different than knocking someone out and cramming 40 years worth of memories into their head.
 
It's never seemed to me that Troi's empathic ability was an invasive process, or even Lwaxanna's telepathic ability. It always seemed to be more of passive one, saying that they're violating someone by reading their thoughts/emotions is like saying I'm violating someone by hearing or looking at them.

That's worlds different than knocking someone out and cramming 40 years worth of memories into their head.

She's a voyeur. She's violating the part people want to keep private. She's an empathic peeping tom.
 
It's never seemed to me that Troi's empathic ability was an invasive process, or even Lwaxanna's telepathic ability. It always seemed to be more of passive one, saying that they're violating someone by reading their thoughts/emotions is like saying I'm violating someone by hearing or looking at them.

That's worlds different than knocking someone out and cramming 40 years worth of memories into their head.

She's a voyeur. She's violating the part people want to keep private. She's an empathic peeping tom.

Depends. It people broadcast their emotions like their voices, then she is someone that is just adept at hearing them.
 
It's never seemed to me that Troi's empathic ability was an invasive process, or even Lwaxanna's telepathic ability. It always seemed to be more of passive one, saying that they're violating someone by reading their thoughts/emotions is like saying I'm violating someone by hearing or looking at them.

That's worlds different than knocking someone out and cramming 40 years worth of memories into their head.

She's a voyeur. She's violating the part people want to keep private. She's an empathic peeping tom.

Depends. It people broadcast their emotions like their voices, then she is someone that is just adept at hearing them.
This is no different from using a hole in the wall that people don't know is there to watch people in the shower.
 
Troi is accessing parts of people that they don't want her to be able to access, and they are usually powerless to stop her. Is that not forcing herself on them?
No. It's theft, invasion of privacy, piracy maybe (The infringement type), but not rape. Rape denotes a damage being done, an assault. "Forcing herself on them" would mean she now can assault their mind, do damage, alter it. There's been no evidence that what she's doing equates to that

She's a voyeur. She's violating the part people want to keep private. She's an empathic peeping tom.
Exactly right. That's not rape, and it's criminality is debatable if in fact it's an evolved condition, as in she can't help but do it. If I had x-ray vision like Superman & could see everyone's naked bodies, does that make me a criminal? I don't think so. Hell, by all accounts isn't that what Geordi is in fact doing?
 
Troi is accessing parts of people that they don't want her to be able to access, and they are usually powerless to stop her. Is that not forcing herself on them?
No. It's theft, invasion of privacy, piracy maybe (The infringement type), but not rape. Rape denotes a damage being done, an assault. "Forcing herself on them" would mean she now can assault their mind, do damage, alter it. There's been no evidence that what she's doing equates to that

She's a voyeur. She's violating the part people want to keep private. She's an empathic peeping tom.
Exactly right. That's not rape, and it's criminality is debatable if in fact it's an evolved condition, as in she can't help but do it. If I had x-ray vision like Superman & could see everyone's naked bodies, does that make me a criminal? I don't think so. Hell, by all accounts isn't that what Geordi is in fact doing?

About Geordi (speaking of that) , in Ethics he tells Worf (before the latter gets a crushed backbone) that he only peeks when the hand is over. I am sorry but that's still cheating! You're not supposed to see the cards unless you pay for it. Sorry Geordi but your ethics (speaking of which) is a little off.

IOW, Geordi cheats at Poker.
 
No. It's theft, invasion of privacy, piracy maybe (The infringement type), but not rape. Rape denotes a damage being done, an assault.
And there is hardly any damage done from the Inner Light's dream on Picard. He wakes up and has experienced a very long, pleasant dream and gained a ton of knowledge.
 
No. It's theft, invasion of privacy, piracy maybe (The infringement type), but not rape. Rape denotes a damage being done, an assault.
And there is hardly any damage done from the Inner Light's dream on Picard. He wakes up and has experienced a very long, pleasant dream and gained a ton of knowledge.

And people who suffer from physical rape still may get orgasm, or at the very least get to have sex, and in some cases gain the gift of life within them. All of that aside, there can hardly be any "damage" from rape itself other than strong emotional damage. There doesn't always have to be a physical violence other than the deed itself. Hitting, knives and the like.

And you could argue Picard *did* suffer a good deal of emotional damage having lost a lifetime's worth of friends, loved ones, children and grandchildren.

The point is that Picard was an unwilling participant in this. He was knocked out and had decades worth of memories forced into his mind. That at the end he came out of the experience having had a positive experience is irrelevant to the idea he still had the entire experienced forced on him.

And, realistically, there'd be some lasting damage and we get a slight hint of this later in "Lessons" when Picard shares his flute-playing with Darren. He still has to deal with the loss of a family. Yeah, a family that never existed but from his point of view they did. The memories he has are as strong and as vivid as any other memory in his head.

Hell, if we really wanted to we could argue that those 40 years worth of memories could damage him some manner in that it's taking up "more space" in his brain. I'm not sure what the neurology of it all says but I suspect the brain doesn't have an infinite capacity to hold memories. So what do these extra memories mean for him? Is there going to be a point where he can't form new memories as he continues to age? Are his oldest memories going to go away to make room for the new one?

How well can he remember his earliest memories? From his perspective they're decades further into the past. He's a man in his 60s who now effectively has around 100 years worth of memories in his head and by 24th century standards he's middle aged!

Seems like there could be a good "deal" of harm here. That he came out of the experience having enjoyed it, remembers it fondly and arguably a better man. Is irrelevant. The entire experience was still forced on him! He was made to experience something against his will.

This isn't the case where we think of Troi or Lwaxanna who simply can "read" minds or maybe talk through the mind, in neither case are the actively invading a mind and forcing their will and own ideas/thoughts on someone.

How is it possible to not see this anything other than a clear violation of Picard's body? Memories, 40 years worth, were shoved into his mind against his will. That's a pretty damn severe violation.
 
No. It's theft, invasion of privacy, piracy maybe (The infringement type), but not rape. Rape denotes a damage being done, an assault.
And there is hardly any damage done from the Inner Light's dream on Picard. He wakes up and has experienced a very long, pleasant dream and gained a ton of knowledge.
Yeah.............. Highly debatable, Dude. He pines away on that damn flute the rest of his days. It wasn't a dream. It was a forced life experience. Total MindF###
 
They should have had it last for a week, instead of a few minutes. THEN there'd be no doubt that this was an attack, but ultimately the duration is of no consequence to the act or the effect
 
No. It's theft, invasion of privacy, piracy maybe (The infringement type), but not rape. Rape denotes a damage being done, an assault.
And there is hardly any damage done from the Inner Light's dream on Picard. He wakes up and has experienced a very long, pleasant dream and gained a ton of knowledge.
Yeah.............. Highly debatable, Dude. He pines away on that damn flute the rest of his days. It wasn't a dream. It was a forced life experience. Total MindF###

So do people who've been turned down by the woman they love. Should we forbid women saying no on account of the damage that it does the spurned lover?
 
I ask again are we cool with calling the vulcan nerve pinch a rape then? Total violation there, and they wake up and have some emotional damage from that.

"Hey man did you see Trek last night? Spock raped a guard so that Kirk could escape."

"...excuse me?"

This is about as much of a rape as someone being forced to read a book and getting attached to the characters. Seems to be a different class of crime.
 
Say it was an attack. OK now what? They're all dead a thousand years. Should Picard be resentful anyway? Seek vengenance on...something? Are we supposed to not enjoy the episode?

I don't get it.
 
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