By Any Other Name - That CRUSHING Scene (Subtle Progress)

[Orphalesion]

In movies and TV women are still routinely killed off to motivate the male heroes to act. It's been a tired trope for ages.

It's called "women in refrigerators" (named after an instance in DC comics where Green Lantern's girlfriend was killed and stuffed in the fridge in order to make him "more tragic" or some nonsense.

It's one of those odd tropes that are sexist against both men and women because:

a) A woman gets killed to add tragedy/shock value/motivation to the male main character's situation.
b) It is often handled as a greater tragedy than when a male character dies.

Unsurprisingly this trope tends to offend women as well as men and is becoming increasingly discredited.

 

[Melakon]

Charles Bronson's character in the Death Wish film series is motivated by what happens to his wife and daughter.

 

[Orphalesion]

And David was killed off in Star Trek III to add tragedy and motivation to Kirk's character in a case of, you could say "son stuffed into the fridge"
Same thing with Rene and Robert in relation to Picard in Generations.

There are definitely male examples of that trope, but the female version is more common, likely also because the movie wants at least some eye candy for the male, heterosexual viewership, even if it is a setting/genre where the constant presence of a female character might be thought of as odd or they want the character to "walk it alone"
So they go the easy route, have the attractive wife.love interest killed/kidnapped in the beginning of the film (or even only show her and her death in flashbacks) and you have the whole rest of the movie free to focus on your "bad-ass" character, who is now also more sympathetic to the audience because he does what he does out of hurt and revenge.

An interesting inversion can actually be seen in the Bride from "Kill Bill", all the tropes are in place: it start with the love interest being killed in the beginning by the bad guys, which in turn sends the protagonist on their quest for revenge. The only variation is really that the genders are reversed.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

Some interesting comments guys...

Thank you...

 

[Joel_Kirk]

Hollywood was, and is, largely run by white men. Lena Dunham (HBO's GIRLS) has said repeatedly in public that she wants to be known as a New York writer/producer/director and to keep Hollywood at a distance.

Yeah, I personally hate Hollywood. A reason I don't go to the movies often unless there is something I haven't seen before.

For example, I am going to see "Selma" (a prominent film directed by a black woman) and I will see the upcoming Will Smith film "Focus" where Smith is romancing the hot Aussie Margot Robbie.

One of my resolutions is to do a short film this year, and hopefully make that climb to where I will have a prominent production company and someday my own special effects house and studio.

So, is this really a reflection on the STAR TREK franchise, or is this notion of "progressive" entertainment an indictment of Hollywood, then and now?

I think you answered your own question:

Hollywood was, and is, largely run by white men.

For me, it's all about having a space where the 'Black Voice' is heard. For example, I'm trying to get an online magazine/company that gives a black pov on sci-fi/fantasy/cinema....as well as give voice to black sci-fi/fantasy writers.

I also want to have interviews where I'm able to speak to either LeVar Burton and/or Michael Dorn about the aforementioned 'Code of Honor' (and the lack of dark-skinned planets in the franchise)....as well as Nichelle Nichols and that 'interracial kiss myth' that was pushed for so long when there were other kisses - white men/Asian women - going on long before that.

It's a space that is open for everyone (as Joblo.com, CinemaBlend, Latino Review, etc.) but focuses more on the Black Perspective. The tentative company also hearkens back to classic print magazines like "Starlog," "Cinefantastique," "Enterprise Incidents," "Fantastic Films," etc...etc..etc...

If we have a show set in the future, and the future is mainly white men saying how that future is, then we are only going to get one, fractional idea of how the future could be. We are only going to get a future that is 'progressive' from their pov.

I've had a random thought about Shonda Rhimes producing a series set around TOS. Her series might feature a black woman as lead on the, say, U.S.S. Potemkin w/a dramatic relationship with another starship or starbase commander or Admiral (who possibly might be a white, non-white Hispanic/Latino, or Asian/Eurasian male). Other leads and recurring characters might will be of different hues and racial backgrounds. Rhimes would also have a black man as the 'ladies man' in relationships with various attractive ladies of various colors and backgrounds who are three-dimensional characters in their own right - however, her 'ladies man' would probably be someone who trying to find Ms. Right just as their are female characters trying to find Mr. Right while juggling their career with Starfleet.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

To tell the truth it didn't seem real to me. So I may not have been affected by that scene as much as some of you.

 

[Marsden]

Joel, I hope this isn't a bad question, but how would you define progress/progressive? I'm not sure myself and I know some people say a word and it doesn't always mean what someone else says or means. Like inconceivable.

 

[Wingsley]

Hollywood was, and is, largely run by white men. Lena Dunham (HBO's GIRLS) has said repeatedly in public that she wants to be known as a New York writer/producer/director and to keep Hollywood at a distance.

Yeah, I personally hate Hollywood. A reason I don't go to the movies often unless there is something I haven't seen before.

For example, I am going to see "Selma" (a prominent film directed by a black woman) and I will see the upcoming Will Smith film "Focus" where Smith is romancing the hot Aussie Margot Robbie.

One of my resolutions is to do a short film this year, and hopefully make that climb to where I will have a prominent production company and someday my own special effects house and studio.

So, is this really a reflection on the STAR TREK franchise, or is this notion of "progressive" entertainment an indictment of Hollywood, then and now?

I think you answered your own question:

Hollywood was, and is, largely run by white men.

For me, it's all about having a space where the 'Black Voice' is heard. For example, I'm trying to get an online magazine/company that gives a black pov on sci-fi/fantasy/cinema....as well as give voice to black sci-fi/fantasy writers.

I also want to have interviews where I'm able to speak to either LeVar Burton and/or Michael Dorn about the aforementioned 'Code of Honor' (and the lack of dark-skinned planets in the franchise)....as well as Nichelle Nichols and that 'interracial kiss myth' that was pushed for so long when there were other kisses - white men/Asian women - going on long before that.

It's a space that is open for everyone (as Joblo.com, CinemaBlend, Latino Review, etc.) but focuses more on the Black Perspective. The tentative company also hearkens back to classic print magazines like "Starlog," "Cinefantastique," "Enterprise Incidents," "Fantastic Films," etc...etc..etc...

If we have a show set in the future, and the future is mainly white men saying how that future is, then we are only going to get one, fractional idea of how the future could be. We are only going to get a future that is 'progressive' from their pov.

I've had a random thought about Shonda Rhimes producing a series set around TOS. Her series might feature a black woman as lead on the, say, U.S.S. Potemkin w/a dramatic relationship with another starship or starbase commander or Admiral (who possibly might be a white, non-white Hispanic/Latino, or Asian/Eurasian male). Other leads and recurring characters might will be of different hues and racial backgrounds. Rhimes would also have a black man as the 'ladies man' in relationships with various attractive ladies of various colors and backgrounds who are three-dimensional characters in their own right - however, her 'ladies man' would probably be someone who trying to find Ms. Right just as their are female characters trying to find Mr. Right while juggling their career with Starfleet.

You provided more interesting comments yourself.

I would think that, if we assumed that TOS could somehow be independently revived or spun-off in some fashion in the here-and-now, there are indeed interesting possibilities of what Kirk and company (or the crew of some other starship, like STARSHIP EXETER) could do with new stories.

It would be hilarious and lots of fun to imagine new stories set in the TOS Universe, with the 60s sets, props, costumes, music and hairstyles used. What would the stories say to make them stand out as "progressive" as you call it?

EXETER's "The Tressaurian Intersection" gave us strong female characters, in addition to Cutty as an African-American command-grade officer. I think "Tressaurian" does give us clues, even if it is a fan-film.

As for your Potemkin comment, we did see a black female starship captain in TMP4: the captain of the ill-fated U.S.S. Saratoga. It was only a cameo, but wouldn't it be interesting to see her and her ship's adventures?

 

[Melakon]

One of my resolutions is to do a short film this year, and hopefully make that climb to where I will have a prominent production company and someday my own special effects house and studio.
...
For me, it's all about having a space where the 'Black Voice' is heard. For example, I'm trying to get an online magazine/company that gives a black pov on sci-fi/fantasy/cinema....as well as give voice to black sci-fi/fantasy writers.

I also want to have interviews where I'm able to speak to either LeVar Burton and/or Michael Dorn about the aforementioned 'Code of Honor' (and the lack of dark-skinned planets in the franchise)....as well as Nichelle Nichols and that 'interracial kiss myth' that was pushed for so long when there were other kisses - white men/Asian women - going on long before that.

Joel, I hope you have success in pursuing these goals.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

One of my resolutions is to do a short film this year, and hopefully make that climb to where I will have a prominent production company and someday my own special effects house and studio.
...
For me, it's all about having a space where the 'Black Voice' is heard. For example, I'm trying to get an online magazine/company that gives a black pov on sci-fi/fantasy/cinema....as well as give voice to black sci-fi/fantasy writers.

I also want to have interviews where I'm able to speak to either LeVar Burton and/or Michael Dorn about the aforementioned 'Code of Honor' (and the lack of dark-skinned planets in the franchise)....as well as Nichelle Nichols and that 'interracial kiss myth' that was pushed for so long when there were other kisses - white men/Asian women - going on long before that.

Joel, I hope you have success in pursuing these goals.

I agree, these sounds like interesting projects.

 

[Richard Baker]

My first thought when the intact polyhedron was restored to a live crewman was what would the crushed one be restored to?- my guess would make a transporter accident look tame...

 

[Melakon]

My first thought when the intact polyhedron was restored to a live crewman was what would the crushed one be restored to?- my guess would make a transporter accident look tame...

It may not be possible.

. . .this person is dead. However, that one can be restored.

Emphasis added.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

My first thought when the intact polyhedron was restored to a live crewman was what would the crushed one be restored to?- my guess would make a transporter accident look tame...

My guess would be nothing. The polyhedron is probably a media containing the person's schematics so to speak. If broken it's like a broken Dvd, the machine just can't read it.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

One of my resolutions is to do a short film this year, and hopefully make that climb to where I will have a prominent production company and someday my own special effects house and studio.
...
For me, it's all about having a space where the 'Black Voice' is heard. For example, I'm trying to get an online magazine/company that gives a black pov on sci-fi/fantasy/cinema....as well as give voice to black sci-fi/fantasy writers.

I also want to have interviews where I'm able to speak to either LeVar Burton and/or Michael Dorn about the aforementioned 'Code of Honor' (and the lack of dark-skinned planets in the franchise)....as well as Nichelle Nichols and that 'interracial kiss myth' that was pushed for so long when there were other kisses - white men/Asian women - going on long before that.

Joel, I hope you have success in pursuing these goals.

I agree, these sounds like interesting projects.

One of my resolutions is to do a short film this year, and hopefully make that climb to where I will have a prominent production company and someday my own special effects house and studio.
...
For me, it's all about having a space where the 'Black Voice' is heard. For example, I'm trying to get an online magazine/company that gives a black pov on sci-fi/fantasy/cinema....as well as give voice to black sci-fi/fantasy writers.

I also want to have interviews where I'm able to speak to either LeVar Burton and/or Michael Dorn about the aforementioned 'Code of Honor' (and the lack of dark-skinned planets in the franchise)....as well as Nichelle Nichols and that 'interracial kiss myth' that was pushed for so long when there were other kisses - white men/Asian women - going on long before that.

Joel, I hope you have success in pursuing these goals.

Thank you Kobayashi Maru and Melakon. ;-)

One of the hardest things was coming up with a name for the magazine. One that is unique and clear and will have its own space when people search for it (e.g. when you search for Joblo.com, that particular site is primarily the only site you see when you Google it).

I have another project that I'm getting together as well: A non-profit program for black students pursuing Film/TV or Creative Writing. However, those majors aren't exactly 'practical;' they don't exactly put food on the table, and I don't want to support anything that doesn't have the students succeed in their dreams. So, I'm not only trying to figure out a name for this particular business, but also the criteria that allows me to extend my film/tv/creative writing interests to black students....and allow them to also get money for college in the process.

Joel, I hope this isn't a bad question, but how would you define progress/progressive? I'm not sure myself and I know some people say a word and it doesn't always mean what someone else says or means. Like inconceivable.

I think it's a good question. ;-)

Off the top of my head, I would say progress for me is:

*We would have film/TV execs that identify as African-American or 'black' calling the shots. This would lead to having all facets of stories about black people...including historical pieces that just aren't focused on American slavery or the Civil Rights Movement. We would see stories about the Zulu nation, Egyptian kings and queens, as well as other African kings and queens. Not too mention stories taking place in different genres such as westerns, sci-fi, etc.

*Someone like Lupita Nyong'o would be able to be looked at as a standard of beauty, and black women in general would be able to have meaty roles. (Can you imagine if Uhura was written and directed as a three dimensional character rather than just a phone operator?)

*We wouldn't balk at a man wearing a male version of the skant, in regards to both Star Trek and 'real life.'

*A woman would be able to choose to wear trousers, skirts and boots, or catsuits and still be respected. And, this is also in regards to Star Trek as well as in 'real life.'

I'm sure there is more. ;-)

 

[kirkfan]

There are worse ways to define progress, IMO.