"Lonely Among Us" the end of Picard's Career?

[Mark 2000]

It seems to me that Picard should have been stripped of command after this episode. If Picard was really willing to abandon the ship on a whim because he talked to some alien intelligence that makes him metaly unfit, no? The show doesn't give any indication Picard was under the influence of the alien. He was really into the idea and attacked several people on the way out.

As an aside, Data's mention that as energy Picard could travel anywhere at any velocity. Um, no. He'd be able to move at the speed of light which is slower than his own ship.

 

[BillJ]

I do think Picard was under an alien influence...

PICARD: What do you want?
CRUSHER: Here are the results from the exams you ordered, sir. You don't care to inspect them? Please, are you Jean-Luc?
PICARD: He is here.
CRUSHER: The Jean-Luc I know?
PICARD: And more.
CRUSHER: The more frightens me.
PICARD: And elates us. We wish you could understand the glorious adventure ahead.

The question is why Crusher didn't relieve him of command?

 

[Trekker4747]

I do think Picard was under an alien influence...

PICARD: What do you want?
CRUSHER: Here are the results from the exams you ordered, sir. You don't care to inspect them? Please, are you Jean-Luc?
PICARD: He is here.
CRUSHER: The Jean-Luc I know?
PICARD: And more.
CRUSHER: The more frightens me.
PICARD: And elates us. We wish you could understand the glorious adventure ahead.

The question is why Crusher didn't relieve him of command?

Doesn't she try to relieve him, but only just when it's too late?

But, yeah, considering the nature of the job there seems to be a clause in Starfleet that says, "if someone's actions are the result of them being influenced by an alien force, no harm/no foul once everything ends up okay."

 

[Unicron]

Kind of like being a security officer, right?

 

[Lance]

The ambigiuity comes from whether or not the entity was in control of Picard's actions, or whether Picard still had some degree of autonomy. The episode suggests that the union of minds is more like a "symbioant" deal, and that the decision to beam himself out into space was a joint decision made between both the entity and Picard. Perhaps Jean-Luc acquiesced due to his respect for all alien life? Which would suggest the Captain ultimately agreed to do it, but not wholeheartedly. But one must question how much the Captain is being co-erced in this matter, or even if he's really got any say at all.

 

[Mark 2000]

Lance's point is exactly what I'm getting at. Much of what Picard did seemed to be because he agreed to it. It was then sort of convenient that he looses his memory at the end.

 

[Lance]

It's like the ambiguity surrounding the Trill.

We're led to believe that it's a completely joint mind, that the slug and the body/host are thinking in unison. But how does that work in any realistic sense? We've seen examples where hosts have gone mad, been homicidal, or just plain been unsuitable for one reason or another. What if the 'body' brain and the 'slug' brain have a disagreement about something? Or does the slug simply take control? We're told that Jadzia and her slug are a unified creature, but do we really know how much of her actions is Jadzia, and how much of it is the slug?

 

[Mark 2000]

Trill hosts always seemed like empty vessels to me, at least on TNG. I was never big into DS9.

 

[Lance]

Even taking the TNG example, if Beverly slept with Odan while he's in the body of Commander Riker, is Riker actually in on that deal? Is there some synapse going on in his brain where he's, like, "Yeah, stick it in there, I'm totally cool with this"?

"The Host" seems to imply that although Riker might have some consciousness after his joining with the Trill, he can't 'fight' whatever Odan chooses to do with his body. As you say, he seems to become a shallow vessel, even though there are other examples in the episode where Riker's base personality seems to inform what Odan does while he's in his body. The parasite (slug) basically takes over the automotive functions of the brain, while an 'echo' of the original remains.

Ambiguous, but "Lonely Among Us" seems to infer that Picard is more active in the decision to beam himself out. That it isn't simply a case of body possession, but that there's something more. And the apparent memory loss afterwards? It could be explained by the fact that we don't get the original Captain Picard back... it's been a while since I saw the episode, but isn't what we get back at the end of the episode just something that was stored in the transporter buffer? It's Picard, Jim, but not as we know him.

 

[Trekker4747]

Yeah, the Picard that appears on the transporter pad is from the pattern in the buffer, which was made the last time Picard used the transporter which was before the merging between Picard and the entity took place, so he had no memory of what occurred outside of the ship, though I seem to recall he had no memory of what occurred while he was with the entity corporeally since it didn't beam-back with him. Which sort of suggests he may not have been 100% in control or aware of things.

The entity put Picard in the buffer and the bolted, Picard materialized and was all, "WTF?!!"

So it seems more like a TNG-Trill-like union where the humanoid subject may not be fully aware of what's going on, probably less so with the LAU situation. Though do we find out how much Riker recalls during his union with the Odan? In that case it seemed pretty clear to me Odan was the more dominant personality and that it wasn't a blend of the two. As rascally as Riker was I doubt he'd consent to sex with Crusher, a co-worker and friend.

 

[BillJ]

I think it's pretty clear the alien is in control as no one remembers when they've been inhabited by it.

 

[Timo]

I'm not sure Picard should be faulted for not putting up more resistance. Doing so would probably have posed a greater risk of Starfleet losing a trained skipper, not lesser. Abandoning one's post has always been a skipper's prerogative anyway, if it helps complete the mission or otherwise win the Federation some points.

Possession is always ambiguous, but it might be fun to speculate that there is so much objective proof (say, Vulcan meld reports) on possession usually being completely beyond the control of the victim that not only is it a valid defense in court - it's also something certain people have learned to make good use of when doing shady stuff! Wanna suffer no consequences? Find one of the benign possessing species, do your stuff, and feign amnesia afterwards (unless what you did made you rich or got you rid of an opponent or whatever, and you really don't have to remember it in order to enjoy the benefits, in which case you can choose a species that actually gives you amnesia, or induce it yourself with suitable chemicals).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

I do think Picard was under an alien influence...

PICARD: What do you want?
CRUSHER: Here are the results from the exams you ordered, sir. You don't care to inspect them? Please, are you Jean-Luc?
PICARD: He is here.
CRUSHER: The Jean-Luc I know?
PICARD: And more.
CRUSHER: The more frightens me.
PICARD: And elates us. We wish you could understand the glorious adventure ahead.

The question is why Crusher didn't relieve him of command?

In Year Of Hell the doctor tried to relieve Janeway of command and she just said "screw you!" (metaphorically speaking of course)

 

[BillJ]

I do think Picard was under an alien influence...

PICARD: What do you want?
CRUSHER: Here are the results from the exams you ordered, sir. You don't care to inspect them? Please, are you Jean-Luc?
PICARD: He is here.
CRUSHER: The Jean-Luc I know?
PICARD: And more.
CRUSHER: The more frightens me.
PICARD: And elates us. We wish you could understand the glorious adventure ahead.

The question is why Crusher didn't relieve him of command?

In Year Of Hell the doctor tried to relieve Janeway of command and she just said "screw you!" (metaphorically speaking of course)

At the end of the day, he was still just a computer program. I doubt any starship captain would yield to the ship's computer under similar circumstances.

 

[Lance]

Yeah, EMH was a special case because although he was fulfilling the function of the CMO, he wasn't the CMO (and as a 'mere' hologram, he wasn't even acting CMO in any hierachichal sense). That sounds harsh, and it *is*, but it does also explain why (say) Crusher or McCoy has got authority to suspend the captain, but Janeway can just tell the EMH to bugger off and leave her alone.

(Well, that, and the whole "We're hundreds of thousands of light years from Federation space, so under whose authority are you gonna relieve me of my command?" thing, anyway. )

 

[Mytran]

It's been established since TOS that the ship's doctor (in conjunction with the First Officer, if necessary) has the power to relieve the Captain of command. It's a big weakness in this story (or possibly in the characters of Crusher and Riker) that Picard is able to sidestep this very important aspect of the Starfleet command structure.

 

[BillJ]

"Lonely Among Us" does have one of the coolest looking scenes in all of Trek, when Picard is immobilizing the bridge crew.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Yeah, EMH was a special case because although he was fulfilling the function of the CMO, he wasn't the CMO (and as a 'mere' hologram, he wasn't even acting CMO in any hierachichal sense). That sounds harsh, and it *is*, but it does also explain why (say) Crusher or McCoy has got authority to suspend the captain, but Janeway can just tell the EMH to bugger off and leave her alone.

(Well, that, and the whole "We're hundreds of thousands of light years from Federation space, so under whose authority are you gonna relieve me of my command?" thing, anyway. )

Well, they punched the reset button on that one too, so no harm no foul...

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

It's been established since TOS that the ship's doctor (in conjunction with the First Officer, if necessary) has the power to relieve the Captain of command. It's a big weakness in this story (or possibly in the characters of Crusher and Riker) that Picard is able to sidestep this very important aspect of the Starfleet command structure.

In "The Deadly Years" they spend half of the episode debating about whether or not they should relieve Kirk of command. I thought it was a bit tiresome.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

"Lonely Among Us" does have one of the coolest looking scenes in all of Trek, when Picard is immobilizing the bridge crew.

Yes, it was nice.