Chapel in the movies

[Therin of Andor]

It wouldn't look too good if the two big representations of racial diversity suddenly weren't there anymore.

Takei held out - till the day before principal photography began - on ST II, IIRC, and only signed when Harve Bennett promised the scene where Kirk tells Sulu he's to be captain of Excelsior. The scene was shot but cut.

Similarly, he was reluctant to sign for ST III, till they promised him a martial arts scene (although he initially hated Sulu being called "Tiny"). His ST III appearance was also tied to Takei running as Paramount's representative with the Olympic flame, IIRC. Great publicity!

Similarly, Takei held out till as long as possible on ST IV, until Harve Bennett promised a scene with Sulu's ancestor (the child actor was difficult and, with failing light, the scene was rehearsed but never filmed.

For ST V, Shatner personally negotiated meaty "pensions" as part of the main casts' contracts, to help compensate for how Trek had helped to typecast them. (And probably because Shatner knew they all originally had reservations about his directorial role.)

And, of course, for ST VI, Takei was finally Captain Sulu.

 

[Maurice]

The ST2 Captain of Excelsior lines hardly constitute a scene, they are just dialog trims in an existing scene.

As to the "pensions" the ST5 budget for cast was significantly higher than for the three previous films, but without a specific breakdown it's difficult to say what that actually means. Notice that the "other" above the line costs for ST5 went up significantly as well, so it's not just the actors who got a bump.

 

[Timewalker]

Rand was written into ST VI when she won an audience poll at a big Trek convention. It was almost Riley! Ultimately, one of Rand's scenes was given to Christian Slater - his Mom was casting director!

I would have liked to see Riley again, but it was fun seeing Christian Slater on Star Trek.

Chapel has one line in TMP that cracks me up whenever I rewatch the film. When they're trying to awaken the memories of the real Lt. Ilia in the V'Ger probe, Chapel pulls out Ilia's Deltan headband and says, "Lt. Ilia once told me she wore this."

Not that she's seen Ilia wear it. No, that would make too much sense. Just that Ilia told Chapel that she wore the headband. Considering that Chapel most likely met Ilia only a few hours before she was absorbed by V'Ger (as that seemed to be the case with everyone onboard except for Decker), that must've been one scintillating conversation.

"Nice to meet you, Dr. Chapel. Say, here's a headband that I wore this one time. I'm not going to put it on right now, but I just wanted you to know that I wore it at one point in time."
"That's nice, dear. Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got to go and do literally anything else."

How do we know they hadn't met a long time before?

... Ilia isn't an emergency replacement for the woman killed with Sonak in the transporter accident, as some people assume.

According to the novelization, that woman was Kirk's ex-contract wife, Admiral Lori Ciana. It never did make sense to me why she would be transporting up to the ship.

And they were also all better-developed than Rand & Chapel (Did those two have any hobbies outside of pining away for unattainable men?).

Well, Chapel knew how to cook plomeek soup and Rand played Solitaire and talked to plants. Hopefully she found something else to do after she quit investing hours a day weaving her hair into a basket.

Excellent point -- It wouldn't look too good if the two big representations of racial diversity suddenly weren't there anymore. Especially when the new characters that the first couple of movies introduced (Decker, Ilia, Carol Marcus, David Marcus & Saavik) were played mostly by white actors (Except for Persis Khambatta, of course, whose ethnicity didn't really factor into her character).

Persis Khambatta had what would be, to North American audiences, a rather exotic accent. So her ethnicity helped audiences perceive her character as exotically alien.

 

[Joe_Atari]

As to the "pensions" the ST5 budget for cast was significantly higher than for the three previous films, but without a specific breakdown it's difficult to say what that actually means. Notice that the "other" above the line costs for ST5 went up significantly as well, so it's not just the actors who got a bump.

Those are very interesting numbers Maurice; what's the source for that chart?

I always attributed TFF's failings mainly to its inflated above the line costs, with Shatner ambitious and well-intentioned but Nimoy phoning it in but both taking full advantage of their "favored nations" clauses in milking the budget to the detriment of production values. The extensive, expensive Yosemite and Mojave location shooting also cost a bundle (much of the "other" figure in the chart) but added surprisingly little to the film IMO.

I simply cannot wrap my head around those VFX and sets figures for TFF though! There has to be more to the story on how the incompetent Ferren and Associates got that gig (just as Return to Tomorrow sadly sheds little new light on the TMP/ASTRA affair - by far my biggest disappointment with that otherwise amazing book).

 

[FormerLurker]

Bran Ferren and Associates had to have outbid other, better effects houses once Shatner decided to not go with the third(?) string crew from ILM. Having seen their work in other films, I can honestly say I think they spend all their time on one effect to make it look as good as they can, and do as little as possible to make the rest, just enough to justify the expense.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

For ST V, Shatner personally negotiated meaty "pensions" as part of the main casts' contracts, to help compensate for how Trek had helped to typecast them. (And probably because Shatner knew they all originally had reservations about his directorial role.)

That's VERY interesting information, Therin. I've never heard that before. Sounds like a nice thing for Shatner to do, even if he was doing it for self-interest in getting his film off the ground.

Tough position for the supporting cast to be in. Each Trek film they did only enhanced the typecasting they suffered as the result of Trek, but those same film appearances were probably their most substantial paydays as actors. That's got to tough to turn down, especially if you then have to answer "So why did you leave Star Trek?" questions for the rest of your life.

 

[Therin of Andor]

According to the novelization, that woman was Kirk's ex-contract wife, Admiral Lori Ciana. It never did make sense to me why she would be transporting up to the ship.

The only place we really learn about Lori Ciana is in the novelization, and that same book presents us several possibilities, all of which are probably true to some extent: she was still acting as Nogura's spy; she still cares for Kirk; and there is a crew vacancy on a Big Space Mystery... so she demotes herself and grabs it.

Did you realise that the UK/Australian novelization of TMP has a few additional lines in it when compared to the US edition?

eg. extra info in caps:
"Kirk fought to keep from screaming obscenities. It was Lori THERE. Sonak, too, but what was Lori doing up here? SHE MUST HAVE TAKEN A TEMPORARY RANK REDUCTION TO FILL THE ZENO-PSYCHOLOGY VACANCY ABOARD. AND NOW She was dying. And he was helpless to stop it." [Page 56, UK/Aust ed.; page 65, US ed.]

Note: Both editions misspell Ciana as "Ciani" the very first time the surname appears, then correctly throughout.

Lori Ciana was featured (or cameoed) in several Trek novels: the first in the four-part "The Lost Years Saga", plus flashbacks in "Ex Machina". Also in "Allegiance in Exile".

Lori was based on another character, Alexandra Keys, who was Kirk's love interest before the adventure started in "In Thy Image".

 

[Lance]

For ST V, Shatner personally negotiated meaty 'pensions' as part of the main casts' contracts, to help compensate for how Trek had helped to typecast them. (And probably because Shatner knew they all originally had reservations about his directorial role.)

That's VERY interesting information, Therin. I've never heard that before. Sounds like a nice thing for Shatner to do, even if he was doing it for self-interest in getting his film off the ground.

Tough position for the supporting cast to be in. Each Trek film they did only enhanced the typecasting they suffered as the result of Trek, but those same film appearances were probably their most substantial paydays as actors. That's got to tough to turn down, especially if you then have to answer "So why did you leave Star Trek?" questions for the rest of your life.

It is interesting. I expect the actors were very conflicted, because Star Trek had become their bread and butter, but they were deeply unsatisfied that it was all they were being asked to do.

Doohan in particular seemed to be typecast into actually playing parodies/variations of Scotty for the whole rest of his career ('Loaded Weapon 1', 'Knight Rider 2000', etc).

 

[Timewalker]

According to the novelization, that woman was Kirk's ex-contract wife, Admiral Lori Ciana. It never did make sense to me why she would be transporting up to the ship.

The only place we really learn about Lori Ciana is in the novelization, and that same book presents us several possibilities, all of which are probably true to some extent: she was still acting as Nogura's spy; she still cares for Kirk; and there is a crew vacancy on a Big Space Mystery... so she demotes herself and grabs it.

Did you realise that the UK/Australian novelization of TMP has a few additional lines in it when compared to the US edition?

eg. extra info in caps:
"Kirk fought to keep from screaming obscenities. It was Lori THERE. Sonak, too, but what was Lori doing up here? SHE MUST HAVE TAKEN A TEMPORARY RANK REDUCTION TO FILL THE ZENO-PSYCHOLOGY VACANCY ABOARD. AND NOW She was dying. And he was helpless to stop it." [Page 56, UK/Aust ed.; page 65, US ed.]

Note: Both editions misspell Ciana as "Ciani" the very first time the surname appears, then correctly throughout.

Lori Ciana was featured (or cameoed) in several Trek novels: the first in the four-part "The Lost Years Saga", plus flashbacks in "Ex Machina". Also in "Allegiance in Exile".

Lori was based on another character, Alexandra Keys, who was Kirk's love interest before the adventure started in "In Thy Image".

I had no idea about the Australian edition. That puts an interesting new angle on Kirk's personal life between the end of his five-year voyage and TMP.

I haven't read those other novels, either. I'm decades behind on some of the ST novel miniseries.

It is interesting. I expect the actors were very conflicted, because Star Trek had become their bread and butter, but they were deeply unsatisfied that it was all they were being asked to do.

Doohan in particular seemed to be typecast into actually playing parodies/variations of Scotty for the whole rest of his career ('Loaded Weapon 1', 'Knight Rider 2000', etc).

Doohan was on a soap for awhile, The Bold and the Beautiful. Yes, he played a Scottish character, but it wasn't over the top. He was brought on to play the father of an existing character. I watched some of his episodes, and he wasn't bad. I didn't see all of them, though, since I wasn't familiar enough with the soap to make sense of the overall storyline.

I read about Nichelle Nichols recruiting female astronauts for awhile; was she paid for this? (I hope!)

 

[Lance]

I do remember seeing him in a Disney Channel movie sometime in the early 2000s, this time playing an Englishman, but it wasn't much of a stretch from his standard Scotty.

 

[FormerLurker]

I vividly remember James Doohan on a episode of Hotel, with obvious and awkward staging to hide his missing finger when he reaches out to shake another character's hand. The director had the female lead, Anne Francis, put her hand out in front of James Doohan's to block the camera's view.

 

[Maurice]

As to the "pensions" the ST5 budget for cast was significantly higher than for the three previous films, but without a specific breakdown it's difficult to say what that actually means. Notice that the "other" above the line costs for ST5 went up significantly as well, so it's not just the actors who got a bump.

Those are very interesting numbers Maurice; what's the source for that chart?

The numbers are from a memo written by Ralph Winter during the planning of Star Trek VI. I just put them into a spreadsheet to do the percentage breakdowns.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I had no idea about the Australian edition. That puts an interesting new angle on Kirk's personal life between the end of his five-year voyage and TMP.

Well, even the US edition spells out that Kirk and Vice Admiral Ciana had had a short term marriage contract in the years since TOS, that Nogura had steered them towards each other, and about Ciana's specialties in Starfleet. The "new bit" in the Aust/UK edition just helps the reader draw the information together. I guess the Futura editor felt it was needed?

 

[T'Girl]

Chapel has one line in TMP that cracks me up whenever I rewatch the film. When they're trying to awaken the memories of the real Lt. Ilia in the V'Ger probe, Chapel pulls out Ilia's Deltan headband and says, "Lt. Ilia once told me she wore this."

Not that she's seen Ilia wear it. No, that would make too much sense. Just that Ilia told Chapel that she wore the headband.

If you think about it, wouldn't Ilia have worn just about everything in her wardrobe, including accessories, that she brought to the ship? Unless they were brand new.

Of course she had worn the headband.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Chapel has one line in TMP that cracks me up whenever I rewatch the film. When they're trying to awaken the memories of the real Lt. Ilia in the V'Ger probe, Chapel pulls out Ilia's Deltan headband and says, "Lt. Ilia once told me she wore this."

Not that she's seen Ilia wear it. No, that would make too much sense. Just that Ilia told Chapel that she wore the headband.

If you think about it, wouldn't Ilia have worn just about everything in her wardrobe, including accessories, that she brought to the ship? Unless they were brand new.

Of course she had worn the headband.

I wasn't questioning that part. I was questioning when Chapel would've had a chance to see Ilia wear it.

 

[T'Girl]

Maybe Christine helped her unpack?

I mean, how would Christine know which headband Ilia was referring to, even if Ilia only brought one? Christine must have actually seen it at some point.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Maybe Christine helped her unpack?

And again, that must've one compelling conversation between the two of them.

Ilia: I wore this headband once.
Chapel: Um, yeah. No shit. It's in your suitcase, chick.

 

[T'Girl]

^ You've never sat and listen to two women talking clothes, have you?

"I haven't wore these yet, just got 'em at this hot botic. Now this headband I did wear once."

"It's so cute."

"Isn't it !!!"

 

[JonnyQuest037]

^ You've never sat and listen to two women talking clothes, have you?

"I haven't wore these yet, just got 'em at this hot botic. Now this headband I did wear once."

"It's so cute."

"Isn't it !!!"

Like most men, I tend to just automatically tune that out.

 

[FormerLurker]

Boutique, T'Girl, boutique. Botic looks like something you'd inject.

Ilia probably told Chapel what the headband was for, and Chapel thought it might stir some strong memories.