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Unique Properties of Television Worlds

JirinPanthosa

Admiral
Admiral
Every television world has its own special unique properties where the laws of physics, psychology and probability function differently than they do in the real world.

In this topic, name a television show, and describe the unique properties present in that show's world.

For example, you could probably name about a million in Star Trek, some of which would be 'Relativity does not exist' and 'Every planet in the universe has evolved intelligent life'.

In the television show Monk: Everybody Monk passes on the street just committed a murder, and everybody Monk or anybody in his inner circle is friends with or a fan of was just falsely accused of murder.
 
For example, you could probably name about a million in Star Trek, some of which would be 'Relativity does not exist' and 'Every planet in the universe has evolved intelligent life'.

Relativity does exist in Star Trek. Warp drive itself is derived from the equations of the General Theory of Relativity, as are wormholes. If you mean that special-relativistic time dilation doesn't occur, that wouldn't be a factor for warp-driven vessels anyway, and we rarely see ships moving at high enough sublight velocities for time dilation to be a factor (indeed, this is the reason for the mythical "full impulse" velocity of 0.25c, which isn't the actual maximum speed but just the preferred maximum for normal operations, in order to avoid time dilation effects).

There's also the 29th-century Federation timeship named Relativity, the presence of Albert Einstein as a holodeck character, and a mention of "transitional relativity" in TNG: "The Mind's Eye."


As for unique properties of a fictional universe... well, every sci-fi universe has its own distinct rules, but a lot of them are shared or are just variations on a theme. But I can think of a few examples, e.g. methods of FTL propulsion. In Andromeda, FTL was achieved using slipstream drive, which was based on following "cosmic string" connections between different particles. Basically the idea was that all particles were connected by cosmic strings through higher-dimensional space, and large clusters of particles, like stars and galaxies, were linked by "bundles" of strings that could be followed by a slipstream engine. This allowed rapid interstellar and even intergalactic travel that was independent of real-space difference, so that a slipstream trip from Earth to a point in the Andromeda Galaxy could be shorter than a slipstream trip from Earth to Alpha Centauri. It also had a "quantum" element that required living pilots to make the decisions, because computers -- even AIs -- would be unable to resolve the quantum decisions and would get lost forever in slipstream space. It was one of the more original methods of FTL I've ever seen on TV, although it was partially inspired by one of the multiple forms of FTL that exist in David Brin's Uplift novels.

Andromeda was also unusual for SFTV in having more of a hard-science basis than most screen universes -- no FTL communication, no "invisible wall" force fields, no tractor beams, no oogy-boogy psychic powers.
 
Aren't most of those explanations for faster than light travel and the actual speed of impulse derived from fan speculation, though?

Do general relativity equations actually predict there exists 'Subspace'?
 
Relativity does exist in Star Trek. Warp drive itself is derived from the equations of the General Theory of Relativity

No. Not at all. Your statement is backwards. Warp drive was not derived from the equations of general relativity. Warp drive was a device of fantasy invented out of pure imagination for a television show in the mid-1960s by television science fiction authors who applied technobabble to create verisimilitude and make it sound like it fit in with general relativity.

At best, the warp drive of Star Trek has inspired actual scientists such as Miguel Alcubierre Moya to investigate FTL in the context of Einstein's theories, for publication in scientific generals. Alcubierre's seminal paper is dated almost 30 years after the warp drive of fiction first appeared in Star Trek.
 
Aren't most of those explanations for faster than light travel and the actual speed of impulse derived from fan speculation, though?

As I said, the very concept of any kind of space warp propulsion in science fiction is derived from the equations of General Relativity. Those equations, formulated by Einstein a century ago, are the very things that first defined the idea of spacetime having a geometry that could be changed like distorting a fabric. Any time you talk about warp drives, wormholes, space folds, or anything of the sort in any science fiction universe, you are talking about general relativistic concepts. People tend to think that FTL drive means ignoring or violating relativity, but they're thinking of Special Relativity, which is limited to the case of unaccelerated motion. The broader General Theory incorporates acceleration due to thrust or gravity, and that leads to the equations showing that the topology of spacetime is mutable -- i.e. that space can be warped by mass or energy. So in fact, most forms of FTL propulsion in fiction come from relativistic theory in the first place, rather than violating it. (The only exceptions being things like quantum-jump drives.)

The discussion of impulse velocities comes from the TNG Technical Manual by Sternbach and Okuda; it states that normal impulse maneuvers are limited to 25% of lightspeed to avoid time dilation, while also stating clearly that much higher velocities are attainable in emergencies. However, the Encyclopedia confused the issue by calling that "full impulse," leading many fans to the mistaken conclusion that impulse engines are incapable of going faster. (Which is ridiculous; there's no friction in space, so as long as your engines continue firing, you just keep accelerating. Even a feeble ion drive could get arbitrarily close to the speed of light if it had enough fuel to remain in continuous operation long enough.)


Do general relativity equations actually predict there exists 'Subspace'?
They're related ideas, in that GR posits a four-dimensional spacetime, and that idea can be extended to include further dimensions; in mathematical terms, a subspace is a subset of fewer than n dimensions in an n-dimensional space.

Of course, the term "subspace" did not originate with Star Trek; it's been around in science fiction since the 1930s at least. In the SF sense, it probably emerged as a variant of the concept of hyperspace, which has been used in fiction since the 1920s at least. That, in turn, owes a lot to Kaluza-Klein theory, which was developed as a 5-dimensional extension (4 space dimensions, 1 time dimension) of General Relativity, and was a forerunner of other higher-dimensional theories such as string theory.

Science fiction is called that for a reason. It doesn't pull its ideas out of a vacuum, but generally bases them on ideas coming from scientific theory, even if it often elaborates on them in fanciful ways.

No. Not at all. Your statement is backwards. Warp drive was not derived from the equations of general relativity. Warp drive was a device of fantasy invented out of pure imagination for a television show in the mid-1960s by television science fiction authors who applied technobabble to create verisimilitude and make it sound like it fit in with general relativity.

Hardly. Star Trek did not coin the concept of warp drive any more than it coined the concept of subspace. The first use of "warp" in science fiction to refer to an FTL drive (that I know of, anyway) was in John W. Campbell's "Islands of Space" in 1930. Star Trek did not innovate -- it took well-established concepts from prose and pulp science fiction and popularized them for a mass audience.

And again, the very word "warp" means to distort, to change the shape or topology of a thing -- and the idea of space as something whose topology could be altered comes directly from General Relativity's equations.



Anyway, on the subject of properties specific to fictional universes, I can't help thinking of properties that are common to most fictional worlds but don't apply in reality -- like the tendency of cars to blow up at the slightest provocation or the way thunder and lightning are always simultaneous. And I've noticed another one in two different shows I've watched in the past two days: Nobody in TV and movies seems to have the ability to distinguish where a sound is coming from. They can be easily fooled into thinking that a sound from a nearby speaker is actually coming from outside, or into thinking they've gotten a text on their phone when the ping actually came from another phone in the other direction in the next room.
 
A unique property of the (remake of) Battlestar Galactica is how its human civilization is such an absolutely accurate carbon copy of our own - in defiance of all laws of logic and probability. Hell, they even came up with "All Along The Watchtower" 150,000 years before we did! :wtf:
 
Warp drive was not derived from the equations of general relativity. Warp drive was a device of fantasy invented out of pure imagination for a television show in the mid-1960s by television science fiction authors who applied technobabble to create verisimilitude and make it sound like it fit in with general relativity.

Exactly so. The writers floundered around with different terminology that was non-specific enough to avoid challenge. In "The Cage," travel speed is measured by "time warp," almost certainly the derivation of "warp drive" rather than any familiarity with scientific theory.

Frankly, I think they were just trying to avoid repeating Forbidden Planet's terminology, given that most of the early Trek "world-building" was lifted from it.
 
As I said, the very concept of any kind of space warp propulsion in science fiction is derived from the equations of General Relativity.
Please cite a scientific paper published prior to 1994 in a peer-reviewed scientific journal that proposed a method of space warp propulsion.

Your use of the word "derived" is very misleading. Science fiction authors who speculated that space warp propulsion was compatible with the equations of general relativity did not derive anything, in any mathematical sense or usage of the term to derive.

Instead of "derived from" the equations of general relativity, I would suggest that "inspired by" the ideas of general relativity is far more accurate when it comes to how science fiction authors collectively came up with the idea of space warp propulsion.

No. Not at all. Your statement is backwards. Warp drive was not derived from the equations of general relativity. Warp drive was a device of fantasy invented out of pure imagination for a television show in the mid-1960s by television science fiction authors who applied technobabble to create verisimilitude and make it sound like it fit in with general relativity.

Hardly. Star Trek did not coin the concept of warp drive any more than it coined the concept of subspace. The first use of "warp" in science fiction to refer to an FTL drive (that I know of, anyway) was in John W. Campbell's "Islands of Space" in 1930. Star Trek did not innovate -- it took well-established concepts from prose and pulp science fiction and popularized them for a mass audience.

Which has nothing to do with my point.

Anyway, I do not believe that the term "warp drive" appears in Campbell's "Islands of Space".
 
Anyway, I do not believe that the term "warp drive" appears in Campbell's "Islands of Space".
From Project Gutenberg's "Islands of Space" by John W. Campbell (emphasis mine):

"To move around near a heavy mass—in the presence of a strong gravitational field," Arcot said. "A gravitational field tends to warp space in such a way that the velocity of light is lower in its presence. Our drive tries to warp or strain space in the opposite manner. The two would simply cancel each other out and we'd waste a lot of power going nowhere. As a matter of fact, the gravitational field of the sun is so intense that we'll have to go out beyond the orbit of Pluto before we can use the space strain drive effectively."








From the introduction by P. Schuyler Miller (again, emphasis mine):


"John Campbell's book was written as a sequel to The Black Star Passes ... and believe me, it was a world-beater in those days.
"Arcot, Wade, Morey, and their computer, Fuller, put together a ship which will travel faster than light ... they give us what may have been the first space-warp drive. The concept was simple; to make it plausible wasn't—unless you were John Campbell.
"With this out-of-space drive they hightail it among the stars. They locate the fugitive planets of the Black Star ... find a frozen cemetery-world of a lost race ... then head out for another galaxy ... and wind up in a knock-down-drag-out interplanetary war in the other galaxy."
—P. Schuyler Miller, Astounding Science Fiction
 
Instead of "derived from" the equations of general relativity, I would suggest that "inspired by" the ideas of general relativity is far more accurate when it comes to how science fiction authors collectively came up with the idea of space warp propulsion.

You know, if you carefully read the correspondence in The Making Of Star Trek it seems as if Roddenberry's most frequent response to points of accuracy raised during the show's development by his scientific consultants was some variation of "well, that doesn't work for us visually/plot-wise. We'll make something up." :lol:

Areas completely and deliberately unaddressed in the show's format included how food was stored, what generated gravity aboard the ship, how the engines worked and why there were no relativistic effects from FTL travel. They didn't like the way NASA described clothing for space, so they made something up. They were alerted that lasers wouldn't do the things the Trek characters' weapons were called upon to do, so they made up a different name for the ray-guns. Etc., etc. and so forth...
 
Islands of Space may not have used the specific term "warp drive," but it was certainly around by 1950, and a 1948 story by Fredric Brown (of "Arena" fame) uses "spacewarp drive":

http://jessesword.com/sf/view/138

Here are other citations for "warp" as a noun and verb that predate Trek, including ones from Theodore Sturgeon in 1949, Robert Heinlein in 1950, and Marion Zimmer Bradley in 1962:

http://jessesword.com/sf/view/332
http://jessesword.com/sf/view/333

And here are a number of pre-Trek citations for "space warp":

http://jessesword.com/sf/view/114

Not to mention "time warp":

http://jessesword.com/sf/view/278

However, Star Trek does seem to have originated the specific term "warp speed," and I daresay it originated "warp factor" as well. But the general concept of "warp" as a means of traveling through space or time was commonplace in science fiction for decades before ST came along.


(And while we're at it, here's "sublight" as far back as 1950: http://jessesword.com/sf/view/689

And "starfleet" in 1939: http://jessesword.com/sf/view/1559)
 
Anyway, I do not believe that the term "warp drive" appears in Campbell's "Islands of Space".
From Project Gutenberg's "Islands of Space" by John W. Campbell (emphasis mine):

"To move around near a heavy mass—in the presence of a strong gravitational field," Arcot said. "A gravitational field tends to warp space in such a way that the velocity of light is lower in its presence. Our drive tries to warp or strain space in the opposite manner. The two would simply cancel each other out and we'd waste a lot of power going nowhere. As a matter of fact, the gravitational field of the sun is so intense that we'll have to go out beyond the orbit of Pluto before we can use the space strain drive effectively."








From the introduction by P. Schuyler Miller (again, emphasis mine):


"John Campbell's book was written as a sequel to The Black Star Passes ... and believe me, it was a world-beater in those days.
"Arcot, Wade, Morey, and their computer, Fuller, put together a ship which will travel faster than light ... they give us what may have been the first space-warp drive. The concept was simple; to make it plausible wasn't—unless you were John Campbell.
"With this out-of-space drive they hightail it among the stars. They locate the fugitive planets of the Black Star ... find a frozen cemetery-world of a lost race ... then head out for another galaxy ... and wind up in a knock-down-drag-out interplanetary war in the other galaxy."
—P. Schuyler Miller, Astounding Science Fiction
If these are all the references, and I got the same results as you from the same location prior to making my post, this proves my point about the non-mention of the term "warp drive": it doesn't appear in the text. The actual name in the text for the drive is "space strain drive."

The distinction between Star Trek's "warp drive" and other space-warp propulsion devices in other sci-fi stories is important, because we were originally discussing Star Trek. Just because pieces of imaginary technology in two different science fiction stories are described by similar technobabble, it does not at all follow that they represent technology based on the same principles. Moreover, technology posited in science fiction cannot retroactively be assumed to be a manifestation of real-world technology inspired by it but developed in reality subsequently to the creation of the fiction, at least not without a retcon.

In other words, and succinctly, Star Trek's warp drive is not Campbell's space strain drive, Star Trek's warp drive is not Fredric Brown's "spacewarp drive," and Star Trek's warp drive is not the Alcubierre drive.

And, these passages from "Islands in Space" especially support my main point that no mathematical derivation was involved. At best there was only hand-waving. There is nothing rigorous in the statement, "Our drive tries to warp or strain space in the opposite manner," rigor that would be required for the term derived to apply in any mathematical sense in conjunction with actual equations.

The influence on Star Trek by actual science was at best only indirect and imprecise. No derivations were involved directly pertaining to the basis for FTL.
 
Instead of "derived from" the equations of general relativity, I would suggest that "inspired by" the ideas of general relativity is far more accurate when it comes to how science fiction authors collectively came up with the idea of space warp propulsion.

You know, if you carefully read the correspondence in The Making Of Star Trek it seems as if Roddenberry's most frequent response to points of accuracy raised during the show's development by his scientific consultants was some variation of "well, that doesn't work for us visually/plot-wise. We'll make something up." :lol:

Areas completely and deliberately unaddressed in the show's format included how food was stored, what generated gravity aboard the ship, how the engines worked and why there were no relativistic effects from FTL travel. They didn't like the way NASA described clothing for space, so they made something up. They were alerted that lasers wouldn't do the things the Trek characters' weapons were called upon to do, so they made up a different name for the ray-guns. Etc., etc. and so forth...

I wonder whether the underlined portion is what JirinPanthosa meant in the OP by 'Relativity does not exist'?
 
And, these passages from "Islands in Space" especially support my main point that no mathematical derivation was involved. At best there was only hand-waving...
The influence on Star Trek by actual science was at best only indirect and imprecise.

Exactly so. They could have called it "hyperdrive" and not made any difference to the series whatsoever.
 
And, these passages from "Islands in Space" especially support my main point that no mathematical derivation was involved. At best there was only hand-waving...
The influence on Star Trek by actual science was at best only indirect and imprecise.

Exactly so. They could have called it "hyperdrive" and not made any difference to the series whatsoever.

"Hyperdrive." Another term used for the warp drive in "The Cage," and never thereafter (except in flashback in "The Menagerie").
 
Giving the energy weapons new names didn't make them any more realistic in scientific or technological terms. Ray-guns really haven't changed much since they were first imagined. Forbidden Planet just called them "blasters," as was common enough in pulp sf of the day.
 
Pretty much any comedy and many many other shows have the person someone is talking bad about standing right behind him at that particular moment and then someone has to say "he is standing right behind me, isn't he?"
 
It seems like there are a lot of Detective/Investigator TV shows with two names:

Dempsey and Makepeace
MacGruder and Loud
Rizzoli and Isles
Hardcastle and McCormick
Tenspeed and Brownshoe
Simon and Simon
Jake and the Fatman
Starsky and Hutch
McMillan and Wife
Cagney and Lacey
Heart to Heart
 
Here are other citations for "warp" as a noun and verb that predate Trek, including ones from Theodore Sturgeon in 1949, Robert Heinlein in 1950, and Marion Zimmer Bradley in 1962:

http://jessesword.com/sf/view/332
http://jessesword.com/sf/view/333

Interesting. That 1950 Heinlein citation is the nautical sense of the word, to move a vessel by hauling a line. But he definitely used "space warp" travel in 1953's Starman Jones, where the title character explains how the spaceship's drive warps the fabric of space and demonstrates with a folded scarf. I don't recall if they use it as a verb, though.

Giving the energy weapons new names didn't make them any more realistic in scientific or technological terms. Ray-guns really haven't changed much since they were first imagined. Forbidden Planet just called them "blasters," as was common enough in pulp sf of the day.

I give Star Trek a lot of credit for the the foresight to change laser to phaser. It's aged well in comparison to something like "turbo lasers" in Star Wars, which sounds so 1970's to my ears.
 
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