To TOS cast and some ST fans: Shatner was a jerk. Get over it. (Long)

[enterprisecvn65]

Re: To TOS cast and some ST fans: Shatner was a jerk. Get over it. (Lo

Shatner's costars have either loved or really hated him - every project and cast he's worked with has produced similar complaints about his manner, not just Star Trek.

Yeah but I've reached the breaking point with TOS cast. If you hate the man, then fine I'm not going to tell you how to feel about someone.

But when that same man is in some way responsible for the high quality of life you enjoy today....then maybe you can say dealing with his crap was a price you had to pay, those days are long over and get on with your privileged life. Stop bitching about it in public decades after the fact, especially when you don't ever have to see him again if you don't want.

Either they do it because 1. They are genuinely that upset stil and too shallow to see what they gained far outweighs what they dealt with. or 2. They do it because it sells and for the publicity.

Either way is a shitty reason and they're all a bunch of ungrateful losers for still doing this schtick.

And for the record Shatner in "Star Trek Memories" included interviews with them all in the book and addressed his behavior at the end in a very candid way when Nicholls called him on it. He invited the others to speak. Kelley as usually didn't seem to be bothered, Doohan wanted nothing to do with it because he was so resentful, Takei and Koenig were going to address but both changed their minds. Shatner didn't have to include them at all, he put Nicholls comments in the book and apologized and gave the others a chance to vent and they chose not to. He addressed it in I think a very fair and even handed way gave others a chance to share their feelings and it STILL wasn't enough for them to shut their big yaps once and for all. What more is he supposed to do.

 

[inflatabledalek]

Re: To TOS cast and some ST fans: Shatner was a jerk. Get over it. (Lo

I think we probably have an unfairly skewered view of how obsessed/angry the rest of the cast are with Shatner. This comes up when they're interviewed about their time on Star Trek, they're not failing to move on when they're specifically being asked to recall the past. And, fairly or not, a large part of the memories of the making the show for a lot of people involved in Star Trek is that Shatner was a bit of dick.

I'm sure when they're not doing interviews/convention panels (and even for the most public of the cast that's only going to take up a small percentage of your average day) they don't give those old days and old feuds any more thought than the rest of us do to things that happened to us decades ago. I can't imagine even Takei down in his basement throwing darks at a Captain Kirk cut-out on a Sunday morning.

 

[enterprisecvn65]

Re: To TOS cast and some ST fans: Shatner was a jerk. Get over it. (Lo

I think Takei would be less known today if it not for his infamous ongoing "feud" with Shatner. And some stories suggest Nimoy was able to get the directing gig in TSFS because of the events prior which included him wanting out of the "Spock" role. Heck, Spock's big death scene and having "Spock" in a film title wouldn't have happened without all of that.

Plus, all of the "juicy" behind the scenes stuff is what sells books and appearances.

So I guess what I'm saying is in addition to going along for the successful Trek ride itself, all of the bitching and complaining about Shatner and other tidbits surrounding Trek have led to some additional fame/success on the part of the lowly supporting cast. And I'm not convinced that at some point along the way these co-stars didn't realize their bitching/complaining was actually lucrative.

And, if people didn't want to hear about the dirty drama behind the scenes, I promise you they wouldn't keep talking about it. That's the sad truth about 21st century humans.

Takei to me is the absolutely biggest loser of the group. I liked him when he was young because he seemed like a nice grounded guy.
But once he realized he could cash in on the Shatner bashing wagon he took it and absolutely ran with it. He was going to talk to Bill about it in "Star Trek Memories" but decided not to confront him. Concindentially he later writes his own book "To the Stars" where he pounds on Shatner, on a very personal level at times. I'm sure he realized if he'd been a man and vented in "Star Trek Memories when Shatner asked him to let him know his feelings, he realized he'd have nothing juicy to put into his own book and it wouldn't sell as well."
BTW the book is complete crap. When you have Takei dressed in the movie uniform on the cover and it says "By Star Trek's Mr. Sulu" on it, the reader is probably expecting a book filled with a lot of Star Trek info. Nope the first 2/3rds is about all about his pre Trek life.....boring. Then he talks about the show some and take shots at Shatner for a few chapters. Then spends the next several chapters about his life after the show and before the films, again boring. And maybe spends the last 20 pages talking about the films and taking a few more shots at Shatner.

And as I referenced before his bitching about the scene where he's told he'll assume command of Excelsior after the training cruise in TWOK is over getting cut is one of the most pathetic things I've read in this whole saga. Again he was upset his fictional character wasn't getting a fictional promotion to command a fictional ship.

And what if he had taken command at the beginning of TSFS either he would have immediately had to give up that command to help save Spock and McCoy or he would have been the Captain of the Excelsior as it tried to stop the Enterprise and looked stupid and incompetent when it tried to follow the Enterprise to Warp Speed and was sabotaged. He really couldn't have been in TVH at all if he was Captain, they would have had to shoehorn him into TFF, like they always did with Worf, in some minimal role and it wouldn't have been as dramatic in TUC when he did assume command because it was new to fans. So the scene in TWOK was pointless anyway because he would have either not become Captain anyway in TSFS to help his friends or he would have become Captain and his character would have probably been given even less screen time and less importance then he was already bitching about over the next films.

Then at the end he talks about how great it was to become Captain of a movie set of a ship in TUC finally. Then in the next paragraph talks about how it was so sad because most of scenes were shot without TOS case and he missed being one of the gang....make up your mind asshole, you can't have it both ways.

Shatner is often criticized for becoming a parody of himself, which is not without merit, but he still has managed to maintain a certain level of dignity IMHO. And when he does make mock himself it's usually pretty funny.

Takei has become far more ridiculous in his old age as a clown. He had a certain dignity as Sulu. But once he realized he could combine his homosexuality with crass comments and saying "Oh My" all the time, he didn't hesitate a second to throw out his image for cheap laughs. I honestly think he'd slip on a banana peel and say "Oh my" if someone offered him enough money to do it. He's the LAST person to be saying how sad it is what Shatner's become. Shatner was always a little campy and silly to begin with, he's just ramped it up in old age, and it is usually clever and funny. Takei just decided to become a total ass clown to stay in the spotlight and destroy the image he had as a dignified and underappreciated actor from his work. And BTW we get it George....you're gay, move on and stop acting like such an idiot about it that it only reinforces people's stereotypes of gay people as flaming morons.

 

[BillJ]

Re: To TOS cast and some ST fans: Shatner was a jerk. Get over it. (Lo

And BTW we get it George....you're gay, move on and stop acting like such an idiot about it that it only reinforces people's stereotypes of gay people as flaming morons.

This is far more offensive than anything the minor character actors did in regards to Shatner. I'm not sure that your issues are with anyone but Takei.

 

[enterprisecvn65]

Re: To TOS cast and some ST fans: Shatner was a jerk. Get over it. (Lo

And BTW we get it George....you're gay, move on and stop acting like such an idiot about it that it only reinforces people's stereotypes of gay people as flaming morons.

This is far more offensive than anything the minor character actors did in regards to Shatner. I'm not sure that your issues are with anyone but Takei.

I was going to write a long response on how Takei's actions using his homosexuality for cheap laughs and to make money and publicity negatively impact many homosexuals lives who just want to live a quiet life and have to fight perceptions of crap like that enough all ready. But honestly, you're not the worth the time. Even though I am heterosexual myself I have had more encounters with the experiences of homosexuals, and I'm not talking the big shot Hollywood ones, many of whom are very angry at people like Takei who use his homosexuality for personal gain, make homosexuals as a whole look negative to many people, and make their lives that much harder.

One man I talked to likened Takei and others like him, who talk about homosexual acceptance in a serious vein one second, and then use it for cheap laughs and financial gain the next to MLK giving the "I Have a Dream" speech and then going to a comic club that night and talking about fried chicken and watermelon.

So yes I have a problem with Takei, but not because he is gay, but because he is a stinking hypocrite who, in his book launched a very personal attack on Shatner saying it was sad to see the young energetic determined actor become such a clown (or some similar term) in his later days. Then Takei turns around years later and does the exact same thing years later. The big difference being when Shatner does something stupid or eccentric all people do is say "Well there goes Bill being Bill again" and it doesn't hurt anyone. When Takei does his "Look at my silly homosexual stereotype" schtick he makes the lives of many others who just want to live a quiet life and not have to defend their sexuality all the time that much harder.

The irony is Takei was lauded for being one of the first Japanese ancestry actors on TV of any prominence only 20 years after the end of WWII when many Americans still had very bitter feelings towards Japan and he did so by carrying himself with grace and dignity. He could have done something similar for homosexuals with his actions but decided saying "Oh my" and other cheap laugh homosexual stereotype actions was the way to go on this one.

You want to continue to play the bigot card on me fine. It'll only confirm what I believe about you and your knowledge of the real issues of homosexual equality. In the meantime I'll sleep soundly tonight knowing there is a 99.9% chance I have forgotten more about homosexual issues and experiences in America than you'll ever know.

 

[Push The Button]

Re: To TOS cast and some ST fans: Shatner was a jerk. Get over it. (Lo

I don't know Bill Shatner, of course, and have never even met him. If he was or is some kind of "jerk" it doesn't matter to me, he will always have my respect, as will the rest of the TOS cast. I can only hope that I am still as active and alive as he is when I'm in my 80's, if I'm even still around then.

 

[BillJ]

Re: To TOS cast and some ST fans: Shatner was a jerk. Get over it. (Lo

And BTW we get it George....you're gay, move on and stop acting like such an idiot about it that it only reinforces people's stereotypes of gay people as flaming morons.

This is far more offensive than anything the minor character actors did in regards to Shatner. I'm not sure that your issues are with anyone but Takei.

I was going to write a long response on how Takei's actions using his homosexuality for cheap laughs and to make money and publicity negatively impact many homosexuals lives who just want to live a quiet life and have to fight perceptions of crap like that enough all ready. But honestly, you're not the worth the time. Even though I am heterosexual myself I have had more encounters with the experiences of homosexuals, and I'm not talking the big shot Hollywood ones, many of whom are very angry at people like Takei who use his homosexuality for personal gain, make homosexuals as a whole look negative to many people, and make their lives that much harder.

One man I talked to likened Takei and others like him, who talk about homosexual acceptance in a serious vein one second, and then use it for cheap laughs and financial gain the next to MLK giving the "I Have a Dream" speech and then going to a comic club that night and talking about fried chicken and watermelon.

So yes I have a problem with Takei, but not because he is gay, but because he is a stinking hypocrite who, in his book launched a very personal attack on Shatner saying it was sad to see the young energetic determined actor become such a clown (or some similar term) in his later days. Then Takei turns around years later and does the exact same thing years later. The big difference being when Shatner does something stupid or eccentric all people do is say "Well there goes Bill being Bill again" and it doesn't hurt anyone. When Takei does his "Look at my silly homosexual stereotype" schtick he makes the lives of many others who just want to live a quiet life and not have to defend their sexuality all the time that much harder.

The irony is Takei was lauded for being one of the first Japanese ancestry actors on TV of any prominence only 20 years after the end of WWII when many Americans still had very bitter feelings towards Japan and he did so by carrying himself with grace and dignity. He could have done something similar for homosexuals with his actions but decided saying "Oh my" and other cheap laugh homosexual stereotype actions was the way to go on this one.

You want to continue to play the bigot card on me fine. It'll only confirm what I believe about you and your knowledge of the real issues of homosexual equality. In the meantime I'll sleep soundly tonight knowing there is a 99.9% chance I have forgotten more about homosexual issues and experiences in America than you'll ever know.

 

[The Master of Tarquin Hill]

Re: To TOS cast and some ST fans: Shatner was a jerk. Get over it. (Lo

This is far more offensive than anything the minor character actors did in regards to Shatner. I'm not sure that your issues are with anyone but Takei.

I was going to write a long response on how Takei's actions using his homosexuality for cheap laughs and to make money and publicity negatively impact many homosexuals lives who just want to live a quiet life and have to fight perceptions of crap like that enough all ready. But honestly, you're not the worth the time. Even though I am heterosexual myself I have had more encounters with the experiences of homosexuals, and I'm not talking the big shot Hollywood ones, many of whom are very angry at people like Takei who use his homosexuality for personal gain, make homosexuals as a whole look negative to many people, and make their lives that much harder.

One man I talked to likened Takei and others like him, who talk about homosexual acceptance in a serious vein one second, and then use it for cheap laughs and financial gain the next to MLK giving the "I Have a Dream" speech and then going to a comic club that night and talking about fried chicken and watermelon.

So yes I have a problem with Takei, but not because he is gay, but because he is a stinking hypocrite who, in his book launched a very personal attack on Shatner saying it was sad to see the young energetic determined actor become such a clown (or some similar term) in his later days. Then Takei turns around years later and does the exact same thing years later. The big difference being when Shatner does something stupid or eccentric all people do is say "Well there goes Bill being Bill again" and it doesn't hurt anyone. When Takei does his "Look at my silly homosexual stereotype" schtick he makes the lives of many others who just want to live a quiet life and not have to defend their sexuality all the time that much harder.

The irony is Takei was lauded for being one of the first Japanese ancestry actors on TV of any prominence only 20 years after the end of WWII when many Americans still had very bitter feelings towards Japan and he did so by carrying himself with grace and dignity. He could have done something similar for homosexuals with his actions but decided saying "Oh my" and other cheap laugh homosexual stereotype actions was the way to go on this one.

You want to continue to play the bigot card on me fine. It'll only confirm what I believe about you and your knowledge of the real issues of homosexual equality. In the meantime I'll sleep soundly tonight knowing there is a 99.9% chance I have forgotten more about homosexual issues and experiences in America than you'll ever know.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Re: To TOS cast and some ST fans: Shatner was a jerk. Get over it. (Lo

And BTW we get it George....you're gay, move on and stop acting like such an idiot about it that it only reinforces people's stereotypes of gay people as flaming morons.

Oh my!

 

[BillJ]

Re: To TOS cast and some ST fans: Shatner was a jerk. Get over it. (Lo

And BTW we get it George....you're gay, move on and stop acting like such an idiot about it that it only reinforces people's stereotypes of gay people as flaming morons.

Oh my!

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Re: To TOS cast and some ST fans: Shatner was a jerk. Get over it. (Lo

Here's David Gerrold's take on the Takei feud with Shatner:

... Who cares about your damn feud anyway? I don't. I don't think many Trekfans care either. For the record, I think all this tell-all bullshit by co-stars (on any show) is frankly embarrassing. Star Trek made all of you into stars. You should be grateful for the opportunities it created for all of you. I am. It gave me a jump start to my career, and as far as I'm concerned, all you guys are heroes. You were part of something very special -- something that changed the world and continues to change the world.

Read more here: https://www.facebook.com/david.gerrold/posts/10203417528931268

 

[The Master of Tarquin Hill]

Re: To TOS cast and some ST fans: Shatner was a jerk. Get over it. (Lo

Conflict creates drama. Drama gets people talking. This is a good thing for trek.

Would you rather have them all be boringly perfect?

 

[BillJ]

Re: To TOS cast and some ST fans: Shatner was a jerk. Get over it. (Lo

One man I talked to likened Takei and others like him, who talk about homosexual acceptance in a serious vein one second, and then use it for cheap laughs and financial gain the next to MLK giving the "I Have a Dream" speech and then going to a comic club that night and talking about fried chicken and watermelon.

So a gay man isn't allowed to publicly have a sense of humor about himself?

Besides, gay folks aren't a monolithic entity like the Borg with Takei as their leader. I don't judge gay people on Takei's actions any more than I would judge Jewish people by Jerry Seinfeld's actions. People that are doing such a thing are looking for a reason to dislike a group of people.

Here's David Gerrold's take on the Takei feud with Shatner:

... Who cares about your damn feud anyway? I don't. I don't think many Trekfans care either. For the record, I think all this tell-all bullshit by co-stars (on any show) is frankly embarrassing. Star Trek made all of you into stars. You should be grateful for the opportunities it created for all of you. I am. It gave me a jump start to my career, and as far as I'm concerned, all you guys are heroes. You were part of something very special -- something that changed the world and continues to change the world.

Read more here: https://www.facebook.com/david.gerrold/posts/10203417528931268

Pretty much where I come down at. Haven't and never will give a flying fuck over behind-the-scenes squabbles these people have had over the years.

 

[JeffinOakland]

Re: To TOS cast and some ST fans: Shatner was a jerk. Get over it. (Lo

He is a tool but its been 45 years FFS. They're jealous because he's the only really successful actor among them. What they don't seem to realize (and its probably part of why they're not successful) is the entertainment industry (especially Hollywood) is insanely competitive and rewards the absolute worst personality traits (greed, self-promotion, ruthlessness, disloyalty, fakeness, selfishness, etc.)

 

[Maurice]

Re: To TOS cast and some ST fans: Shatner was a jerk. Get over it. (Lo

First of all, sorry, but the initial post here is a rant many times and long as it needs to be. "Spin on," as Dave Lister used to say.

Here's David Gerrold's take on the Takei feud with Shatner:

... Who cares about your damn feud anyway? I don't. I don't think many Trekfans care either. For the record, I think all this tell-all bullshit by co-stars (on any show) is frankly embarrassing. Star Trek made all of you into stars. You should be grateful for the opportunities it created for all of you. I am. It gave me a jump start to my career, and as far as I'm concerned, all you guys are heroes. You were part of something very special -- something that changed the world and continues to change the world.

Read more here: https://www.facebook.com/david.gerrold/posts/10203417528931268

The irony is one could turn that same argument back at Gerrold and his need to bash Roddenberry and Mazlish.

As to Shatner, he can be an utter prick. Many years ago a good (and very kind) friend of mine had to work as his assistant for two days and she has despised him ever since.

 

[Push The Button]

Re: To TOS cast and some ST fans: Shatner was a jerk. Get over it. (Lo

He is a tool but its been 45 years FFS. They're jealous because he's the only really successful actor among them. What they don't seem to realize (and its probably part of why they're not successful) is the entertainment industry (especially Hollywood) is insanely competitive and rewards the absolute worst personality traits (greed, self-promotion, ruthlessness, disloyalty, fakeness, selfishness, etc.)

Not just Hollywood, unfortunately. Take a random group of 100 corporate CEOs, 95 of them will exhibit most or all of those traits.

 

[JeffinOakland]

Re: To TOS cast and some ST fans: Shatner was a jerk. Get over it. (Lo

He is a tool but its been 45 years FFS. They're jealous because he's the only really successful actor among them. What they don't seem to realize (and its probably part of why they're not successful) is the entertainment industry (especially Hollywood) is insanely competitive and rewards the absolute worst personality traits (greed, self-promotion, ruthlessness, disloyalty, fakeness, selfishness, etc.)

Not just Hollywood, unfortunately. Take a random group of 100 corporate CEOs, 95 of them will exhibit most or all of those traits.

Sad but true.

 

[BeatleJWOL]

Re: To TOS cast and some ST fans: Shatner was a jerk. Get over it. (Lo

The irony is one could turn that same argument back at Gerrold and his need to bash Roddenberry and Mazlish.

True, but Gerrold does know the fanbase; there's far more of an attempt there to sanctify The Roddenberry than there is trying to excuse the Shatner from things people already know about him.

 

[Amaris]

Re: To TOS cast and some ST fans: Shatner was a jerk. Get over it. (Lo

I think the feud between Shatner and Takei is mostly one sided (Takei), and mostly for occasional shots of drama. I love George Takei but he does seem to have that part of his life encapsulated with a significant amount of anger.

Even in his documentary, To Be Takei (which was rather enjoyable), there are a few minutes near the end where he talks about inviting Shatner to their (George and Brad's) wedding, that he sent an invitation and Bill didn't show up, but Shatner insisted he never received an invitation. Either way, it just felt petty for someone who had so many great things going in his life, and he really does have some great things, and he needs to focus on those and let it all go. Seriously, if you don't like the man, why invite him to your wedding unless you're looking for something new to throw at him?

I don't want to think he would do something like that, but he still has that edge to his voice when he speaks regarding Bill, and George doesn't need to do that. He's too smart, too kind and compassionate a person to stoop to such things. Just leave Bill alone, and you and Brad enjoy your lives together; enjoy your notoriety together.

 

[Timewalker]

Re: To TOS cast and some ST fans: Shatner was a jerk. Get over it. (Lo

BTW the book is complete crap. When you have Takei dressed in the movie uniform on the cover and it says "By Star Trek's Mr. Sulu" on it, the reader is probably expecting a book filled with a lot of Star Trek info. Nope the first 2/3rds is about all about his pre Trek life.....boring. Then he talks about the show some and take shots at Shatner for a few chapters. Then spends the next several chapters about his life after the show and before the films, again boring. And maybe spends the last 20 pages talking about the films and taking a few more shots at Shatner.

So two-thirds of an actor's autobiography is about... his own life, instead of a TV show that most fans already know most of what he'd have to say about it?

What unmitigated gall of George Takei to describe his own pre-Star Trek life! What effrontery, to not have 100% of his autobiography to be All About Star Trek!

I read To the Stars! and found the pre-Star Trek and non-Star Trek parts to be quite interesting. Takei had (and has) a life that doesn't include Star Trek, and I appreciate that he opted to share it with his fans.