A better way to end the series then Endgame
- Thread starter The Overlord
- Start date
Re: A better why to end the series then Endgame
I've seen that before, and it's still funny. It's too bad that guy didn't finish all the Enterprise reviews, they were good for a laugh.
I've seen that before, and it's still funny. It's too bad that guy didn't finish all the Enterprise reviews, they were good for a laugh.
Re: A better why to end the series then Endgame
I think the whole C/7 thing was just "We want to see Seven exploring relationships to show her becoming more human. Which main character is the least inappropriate to do this with?"
I think the whole C/7 thing was just "We want to see Seven exploring relationships to show her becoming more human. Which main character is the least inappropriate to do this with?"
Re: A better why to end the series then Endgame
One episode isn't "exploring". That word is open ended. You don't know when it started and you don't know when its going to finish. But this is the last instalment. EXPLORED. She took a look at the situation, made some decisions, making clear that the nature of her existence had been decided in stone. This is her happily ever after.
Tom and B'Elanna on the other hand.
Oh?
Is that it?
Having Seven and Chakotay doing what Tom and B'Elanna were doing would have been an unnecessary redundancy, because only 1 couple in the crew is allowed to have a meaningful, protracted, relationship at any one time?
Was Berman afraid that the Love Boat was going to sue?
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWyxZR69CI0[/yt]
There's a line form the second pilot of the Love Boat...
"Yours is not the face that makes women forget about Paul Newman!"
One episode isn't "exploring". That word is open ended. You don't know when it started and you don't know when its going to finish. But this is the last instalment. EXPLORED. She took a look at the situation, made some decisions, making clear that the nature of her existence had been decided in stone. This is her happily ever after.
Tom and B'Elanna on the other hand.
Oh?
Is that it?
Having Seven and Chakotay doing what Tom and B'Elanna were doing would have been an unnecessary redundancy, because only 1 couple in the crew is allowed to have a meaningful, protracted, relationship at any one time?
Was Berman afraid that the Love Boat was going to sue?
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWyxZR69CI0[/yt]
There's a line form the second pilot of the Love Boat...
"Yours is not the face that makes women forget about Paul Newman!"
Re: A better why to end the series then Endgame
It was stupid that Admiral Janeway appeared after Voyager already encountered the nebula and the Borg.
Of course, if they did things sensibly and Admiral Janeway gave Voyager the armor and stuff before the Borg knew they were there, the ship could have just sailed on through into the Hub and on to Earth and the Borg wouldn't have been able to do a single damn thing to stop them.
The problem with plot is that it often sacrifices logic for drama.
It was stupid that Admiral Janeway appeared after Voyager already encountered the nebula and the Borg.
Of course, if they did things sensibly and Admiral Janeway gave Voyager the armor and stuff before the Borg knew they were there, the ship could have just sailed on through into the Hub and on to Earth and the Borg wouldn't have been able to do a single damn thing to stop them.
The problem with plot is that it often sacrifices logic for drama.
Janeway couldn't arrive until after Seven and Chakotay's first date.
Janeway came back to save the happy couple.
If they never become a couple, that sorta defeats the purpose of her visit.
Their first kiss is more important than Carey's death a week earlier.
If they never become a couple, that sorta defeats the purpose of her visit.
Their first kiss is more important than Carey's death a week earlier.
That says something about Janeway. A week long head start wouldn't have hurt. Perhaps she never got over the fact that a Starfleet dropout like B'ellana could do better than an officer who stayed with Starfleet and who was posted on her advanced starship.
Since the Borg analyze every attacking weapon and learn/adapt, Admiral Janeway gave them a lot of future tech to use once they recovered from the hub setback.
I would have like to have seen more of a homecoming than just cruising to the Earth in the distance. You spend seven years trying to accomplish something you need to at least see the result.
I would have like to have seen more of a homecoming than just cruising to the Earth in the distance. You spend seven years trying to accomplish something you need to at least see the result.
Re: A better why to end the series then Endgame
You mean like they did when Enterprise came back from the Expanse, we got an episode where we see how their return home was.The easy answer is "show don't tell". We learn a lot about how Voyager's return happened in retrospect, and we see the ship approach Earth at the end of the episode, but the event itself is never seen except in a kind of flashback sense in the future segments. It's a cheat on the premise: if you're idea that they're making their way home, then you've got to show the way that happens, and how the crew readjust to being home for the first time. You don't just say "We're home", and then roll the end credits.
It's the same kind of hollow feeling as you get from the Enterprise series finale, which builds up to this so-called historic great speech that Archer is supposed to give, but we never actually get to *see* it!
How about this for a better ending:
Decades later when Janeway is old and gray they finally get back to the coordinates where Earth should be, but they find nothing. It turns out they were actually traveling in the wrong direction this entire time! Neelix had messed up the directional sensors in the first season with some of his homemade cheese.
But seriously I think the ending is pretty good, it's just not as satisfying as the ending to TNG.
Decades later when Janeway is old and gray they finally get back to the coordinates where Earth should be, but they find nothing. It turns out they were actually traveling in the wrong direction this entire time! Neelix had messed up the directional sensors in the first season with some of his homemade cheese.
But seriously I think the ending is pretty good, it's just not as satisfying as the ending to TNG.
Re: A better why to end the series then Endgame
I love that idea a lot! Returning full circle to the Caretaker's mate would've been a nice way to tie the whole series together. I always was fascinated by the powerful and mysterious Necenes and the mysteries of the Ocampans - potentially incredibly powerful beings reduced to living a life of basically hamsters. Giving Kes a role in the finale would've been a really nice gift to Kes fans.
Rather than having Kes be given a human lifespan as a gift, I'd prefer that Kes's powers finally be under her control and discover that a long life is natural to the Ocampans, that they only lived such brief lives due to the Caretaker's control and interference. That would be a nice touch for Kes to solve her own problems since there was an ongoing theme with Kes struggling to control her own life, with her power, lifespan, reproduction and ultimately her own sanity and morality going out of her control.
I like a lot of Endgame. I am a borg fan, and I thought Admiral Janeway was great. Chakotay and Seven's puke worthy romance really brings the story down, and Tuvok's sudden illness is just too contrived. In a perfect world we could've gotten a Borg showdown as the penultimate story with some tie in to the finale with Suspiria. Perhaps in the aftermath of destroying the Borg Voyager is seriously crippled which could play a part in Suspira's story.
BTW lovely Christmasy Kes avatar Lynx!
"Endshame" was a total disgrace.
Voyager should have ended with a final showdown with Suspiria, the female Caretaker.
In this episode, Surpiria should have returned to finally destroy Voyager. Then Kes should have returned from the "energy-being" state and finally she would have persuaded Surpiria not to destroy Voyager, convincing Suspiria that Janeway told the truth about how The Caretaker died and also that Voyager fulfilled The Caretaker's last wish when they distroyed the array.
As a final gift, Surpiria would have sent Voyager home and also given Kes a human lifespan as thanks for her help.
Then we would have had a real homecoming for our heroes.
Maybe a "happy end" between Chakotay and Janeway!
I love that idea a lot! Returning full circle to the Caretaker's mate would've been a nice way to tie the whole series together. I always was fascinated by the powerful and mysterious Necenes and the mysteries of the Ocampans - potentially incredibly powerful beings reduced to living a life of basically hamsters. Giving Kes a role in the finale would've been a really nice gift to Kes fans.
Rather than having Kes be given a human lifespan as a gift, I'd prefer that Kes's powers finally be under her control and discover that a long life is natural to the Ocampans, that they only lived such brief lives due to the Caretaker's control and interference. That would be a nice touch for Kes to solve her own problems since there was an ongoing theme with Kes struggling to control her own life, with her power, lifespan, reproduction and ultimately her own sanity and morality going out of her control.
I like a lot of Endgame. I am a borg fan, and I thought Admiral Janeway was great. Chakotay and Seven's puke worthy romance really brings the story down, and Tuvok's sudden illness is just too contrived. In a perfect world we could've gotten a Borg showdown as the penultimate story with some tie in to the finale with Suspiria. Perhaps in the aftermath of destroying the Borg Voyager is seriously crippled which could play a part in Suspira's story.
BTW lovely Christmasy Kes avatar Lynx!
I definitely think that showing Voyagers return would have been good for rounding the series off, there are some on Voyager who did "dubious" actions in the DQ such as the Equinox 6 I assume they are brought to justice, Janeway, although I doubt a lot of her decisions she would at least be disciplined for using admiral Janeway to get everyone home. Plus all the former Marquee would need to decide their fates do they stay with starfleet or leave, Just because they became "starfleet" in the DQ mean they could settle for doing so in federation space.
I genuinely don't like time travel and never really did, so I would have preferred a different ending.
The thing is a really satisfying ending to a series with a (theoretical) goal would have needed some buildup.
Too bad they got rid of Kes, if they had built up an arc with her and the female caretaker it would have been cool. And then a few episodes of Voyager returnig home and perhaps fully evolved Kes returning to Ocampa.
The thing is a really satisfying ending to a series with a (theoretical) goal would have needed some buildup.
Too bad they got rid of Kes, if they had built up an arc with her and the female caretaker it would have been cool. And then a few episodes of Voyager returnig home and perhaps fully evolved Kes returning to Ocampa.
They couldn't do otherwise than to get Voyager home for the series finale, but I agree that they could have dispensed with the time travel twist.
Well they only had two options have Voyager make it home in the finale or don't have them make it home, and leave the series open ended. For example when they are in the transwarp corridor and they say "right where we expected to be", fade to black. Did they make it or not?
Or why not have future Janeway travel all the way back to the Caretaker and arrive to back-up her younger self and use the Caretakers technology to get, so she can save all of her crew.
Or do you want to go down the St. Elsewhere and Dallas route have it all be the dellusions of Tuvok.
Or why not have future Janeway travel all the way back to the Caretaker and arrive to back-up her younger self and use the Caretakers technology to get, so she can save all of her crew.
Or do you want to go down the St. Elsewhere and Dallas route have it all be the dellusions of Tuvok.
^Sure, there's heaps of ways that don't include time-travel.
1)Kes threw Voyagers a bunch of light years ahead when her powers awoke. If they had turned the Ocampan powers into an arc, involving the female founder, they could have zapped Voyager back to the Alpha Quadrant.
2) Wormholes.
3) The Borg teleportation gate that was used in the finale, time travel was not necessary for that story.
4)Other random negative space wedgies.
1)Kes threw Voyagers a bunch of light years ahead when her powers awoke. If they had turned the Ocampan powers into an arc, involving the female founder, they could have zapped Voyager back to the Alpha Quadrant.
2) Wormholes.
3) The Borg teleportation gate that was used in the finale, time travel was not necessary for that story.
4)Other random negative space wedgies.
Janeway travels back in time due to certain events the loss of Seven and Chakotay and Tuvok losing his mind, because she does and Voyafger gets home earlier so events play out differently, so what causes Janeway to travel back in time?
I hate Temporal mechanics
But really there should have a price to pay.
I hate Temporal mechanics
But really there should have a price to pay.
I once considered writing a short story about the mother of Michael Jonas having a mental breakdown once she receives news about her son's actions. Eventually she comes to terms with it and starts a support group with Lon Suder's family (then right at the end, Harry Kim walks in and wants to join because he actually still feels really guilty about beaming that torpedo onto that Borg cube and is finding it hard to sleep)
Anyway, i don't think there's an audience for that sorta thing
