I thought The Nightmare of Eden was actually pretty decent. It had some relevant social commentary about drug-dealing and that the people who transport addictive drugs are just as complicit as pushers.
Last Classic Who Story you watched
- Thread starter Pindar
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Yea, I've always loved Nightmare of Eden (Maybe because it's one of my earliest Full Serials, so nostalgia?), and never understood why it's not more liked
Horns of Nimon, yea, it's pretty bad, but, IMHO, that's actually part of it's charm.
My bottom 3 Serials are:
Delta and The Bannermen
4 To Doomsday
Power of Kroll
Time and The Rani (gets honorable mention because I think there's a decent story struggling to get out)
Delta and the Bannermen is actually one of the few 7th Doctor stories I like. Sure, Mel sucks like she always did, but the story is decent and the 7th Doctor hasn't become a sociopath yet.
Its hard to pick a bottom three (since there is a lot I haven't seen), but from what I have seen:
The Greatest Show in the Galaxy
Time and the Rani
Mindwarp
Its hard to pick a bottom three (since there is a lot I haven't seen), but from what I have seen:
The Greatest Show in the Galaxy
Time and the Rani
Mindwarp
How is the 7th Doctor a sociopath? I have seen the serials from Season 26, and I never thought this character was a sociopath.
Kirk55555 passionately dislikes the Master Manipulator aspect to McCoy's Doctor in his Second Series and beyond, most especially that The Doctor would put a Companion (Ace) through such use and abuse.
I personally love this aspect of McCoy's Doctor, and think it's a natural progression from Colin Baker's Six commenting that Five was far too agreeable (And implying he was too Human). I also like the way that era brought in things earlier incarnations left unfinished or had repercussions.
I thought the 7th Doctor was guiding Ace on a path where she would demonstrate her full potential. (Ace is one of my favorite companions.)
As the Doctor is the same person, with basic character traits, if he is viewed as a sociopath in one incarnation, wouldn't he be described as such in all incarnations?
As the Doctor is the same person, with basic character traits, if he is viewed as a sociopath in one incarnation, wouldn't he be described as such in all incarnations?
While all Doctors have similar traits like curiosity, anger and arrogance they're all different as well. And the Doctor can't be judge by human standards because of course he's not human.
One possible postive trait and two negative traits. No other positive traits, eh?
I was asking a rhetoric question. If we lived in that universe, we would be using terms familiar to us in describing his behavior, just as we do other creatures who have a culture.
(The UN recently declared that animals can create cultures. We humans anthromorphise them, by saying that they are happy or sad. Just the same would humans do with a being from another world. On a sidenote, I think it is a very good idea that we haven't made contact with an extraterrestrial. We have enough issues with seeing the value in other lifeforms - I can only imagine what we would be like with them. Doctor Who addressed this in "The Invisible Enemy" -
If we accept that other lifeforms, like elephants, have a culture, when we are driving them to extinction, is this genocide?)
I was asking a rhetoric question. If we lived in that universe, we would be using terms familiar to us in describing his behavior, just as we do other creatures who have a culture.
(The UN recently declared that animals can create cultures. We humans anthromorphise them, by saying that they are happy or sad. Just the same would humans do with a being from another world. On a sidenote, I think it is a very good idea that we haven't made contact with an extraterrestrial. We have enough issues with seeing the value in other lifeforms - I can only imagine what we would be like with them. Doctor Who addressed this in "The Invisible Enemy" -
(4th Doctor)
(Nucleus)
If we accept that other lifeforms, like elephants, have a culture, when we are driving them to extinction, is this genocide?)
I don't think the traits are positive or negative I just accept as being a part of the Doctor's makeup as a person.
I also the conversastion from Pyramids Of Mars where Sarah Jane comments that sometimes the Doctor doesn't seem human, but he had to finish the sentense for her since she realized that he's not human and wounldn't react to death the same way she does.
If you are referring to the "I walk in eternity" speech, I think that is a great speech.
Our traits are formed by what an individual is born with (the epigenetics) and what influences them in a lifetime. The outward shell of the Doctor changes, and this being may experience extremes, at the being's core, he has a defined set of traits. Note: Scientists are discovering that traits are the result of epigenetics, not genetics. (Think of the former as software and the latter as hardware.)
Sociopathy is a combination of traits. See here:
http://www.wikihow.com/Spot-a-Sociopath
I would say that the Doctor's character has traits common to a sociopathic individual. However, I am not saying that this being is sociopathic. This is from the perspective of a human.
(I recognize the struggle that the writers and the thespian experience when they are attempting to make the Doctor behave and think non-human.)
Our traits are formed by what an individual is born with (the epigenetics) and what influences them in a lifetime. The outward shell of the Doctor changes, and this being may experience extremes, at the being's core, he has a defined set of traits. Note: Scientists are discovering that traits are the result of epigenetics, not genetics. (Think of the former as software and the latter as hardware.)
Sociopathy is a combination of traits. See here:
http://www.wikihow.com/Spot-a-Sociopath
I would say that the Doctor's character has traits common to a sociopathic individual. However, I am not saying that this being is sociopathic. This is from the perspective of a human.
(I recognize the struggle that the writers and the thespian experience when they are attempting to make the Doctor behave and think non-human.)
No, although that was a great speech I was refering to the their conversation after they found Scarman's body and figured out that his brother killed him.
I recently realized that between Netflix streaming, Amazon Prime and Hulu Plus, I have access to the entire "Key to Time" season. It was going to be my next venture into Classic Who, but some of the comments here (particularly about "The Power ofKroll) make me wonder if it's worthwhile. Opinions?
I just think that no other Doctor would do that. That's something The Master would do. Ace didn't grow because of it, in fact I'd bet off screen after her adventures she became a basket case (Big Finish audios, while I'm usually happy to include them in my own personal who canon, still don't count as giving us a final fate for Ace). Its funny because he dropped Mel (one of the worst companions in my opinion, who deserved psychological torture) and replaced her with Ace, whose a great companion but who happens to be connected to the only Doctor I hate.
What the 7th did to Ace was crazy. He blew a random teenager into the future for no adequately explained reason (I'm pretty sure he did explain why at some point, it was just stupid and nonsensical) and then proceded to do psychological torture so hardcore and pointless that it would make The Master raise an eyebrow. He was cruel, mostly because it seemed to amuse him. People complain about the 6th, but you could tell he cared. He bickered with Peri, but was devastated when he thought she was dead. The 12th is a bigger jerk than the 6th ever was, but he still cared about Clara even when she showed she was literally psychotic. If Ace died, the 7th would have just shrugged and found someone else to torture. It wasn't McCoy's fault, his Doctor was just written horribly once Ace came around.
In case you can't tell, I have 7th Doctor issues
The Greatest Show in the Galaxy, Ghost Light and Curse of Fenric are my personal most hated stories of Doctor Who, so I get a bit worked up. In the end, the 7th Doctor (after Mel left and Ace arrived) lost what makes The Doctor what he is across all incarnations. At the core, he was a bad man. He didn't care about anything, and was the kind of guy who would have let the universe burn if it didn't mean he'd have to stop playing his games. I was so happy when he died in just about the stupidest, most anticlimatic way possible in the Doctor Who Movie. I don't know why he was the way he was in universe (in real life it was bad writing). Maybe The Rani's drugs created a delayed effect that ruined his mind, or maybe his early fun and slightly goofy persona was always a lie. Regardless, to me he's the worst Doctor, and the only one I actually dislike (at least by the end of his run, I liked him before he went mental).
Ace went from being a girl to a woman in The Curse Of Fenric, so I certainly though she grew from the storyline. If anything what the tenth Doctor did to Donna was far worse, she can have no memories of her time with the Doctor outside of dying I can't imagine a worse fate for a companion.
I feel differently about "Ghost Light" and "The Curse of Fenric". I like both episodes.
The Key to Time is absolutely worth it. This is the first time we meet a Time Lady who isn't just a forgettable guest character - Romana is a recent Academy graduate who is centuries younger than the Doctor and full of the kind of self-confidence that acing her courses gives her, but she lacks practical life experience. The Doctor is skeptical of how helpful she'll be in the task the White Guardian has set for him, so they clash pretty much right away. The season is not only about the two of them accomplishing the quest for the six segments of the Key to Time, it's also about getting to know each other and coming to a place of mutual respect, friendship, and trust (remember, the Doctor isn't fond of other Time Lords since they've always tried to either spy on him, order him around, or use him to perform some task they don't want to get their own hands dirty doing).
I started watching this story arc with the second one, The Pirate Planet. I have to admit, I found it bizarre, but realized that part of the problem was that I just didn't understand Douglas Adams' take on Doctor Who (I had yet to see or read Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy). Stones of Blood is excellent, with a terrific guest character (Professor Amelia Rumford). The Androids of Tara is a decent story. The Power of Kroll's problem, at least for me, is that the technical aspects of the episode are just really bad. This is the worst of the 6 stories, in my opinion, but still tolerable. I'd watch it over some of the other Tom Baker-era shows (ie. Pyramids of Mars or Talons of Weng-Chiang, neither of which I like). The Armageddon Factor is definitely worth watching, and we're introduced to Lalla Ward, who goes on to play the second incarnation of Romana when she regenerates at the beginning of the next story, Destiny of the Daleks. Eventually I got to see The Ribos Operation in which Romana is initially introduced, and found it an interesting way to introduce a new companion, along with a decent story.
But just don't read the text commentary it kind of ruins The Armageddon Factor when you learn what the story could've been had they not run out of money. And I loved Tom Baker and John Leeson's commentary on The Power Of Kroll it's hilarious. The Pirate Planet really sucked most of the money out of the season though it cost some 30,000 Pounds to produce. Graham Williams tried to do something really grand and interesting in his concept of the season but the budget really let him down and nobody at that point in time was interested in a season long story arc.
I haven't read the text commentary yet. I have been listening to the commentary. From what I have learned, Doctor Who had two major issues that aren't discussed often:
1. BBC believed that theatre dramas were superior to anything produced on the telly.
2. Doctor Who was being influenced by the success of Star Wars.
When in this situation, the franchise was making an attempt at being Star Wars-like with a reduced budget, while working for an entity that didn't see its value.
1. BBC believed that theatre dramas were superior to anything produced on the telly.
2. Doctor Who was being influenced by the success of Star Wars.
When in this situation, the franchise was making an attempt at being Star Wars-like with a reduced budget, while working for an entity that didn't see its value.
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