I'd always thought that Hengist was descended from Earth even if he wasn't born there himself!
JB
JB
Lack of aliens in season 1
- Thread starter Grant
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...Or then Amanda insisted that they name their son after his Dutch great-grandfather, and also that her husband change the overtly difficult Vulcan spelling of his own name to reflect the Sami roots of her family. 
Seriously, forks, I could see many an alien name getting deliberately misspelled by our human heroes for their own convenience. So, Hengist rather than Hegnwyshht, MacKenzie Calhoun rather than... You get the picture. We do enough of that with our own languages down here on Earth already.
Timo Saloniemi
Seriously, forks, I could see many an alien name getting deliberately misspelled by our human heroes for their own convenience. So, Hengist rather than Hegnwyshht, MacKenzie Calhoun rather than... You get the picture. We do enough of that with our own languages down here on Earth already.
Timo Saloniemi
I'll admit the tatooing or facial painting in the 24th century shows with the Trill etc was much better than say those doe in the aliens in "The Apple". Still its pretty obvious they are just like humans, especially in those shows where they act exactly like humans. And that's probably not a bad thing. They are supposed to be allegory stories and we are supposed to see ourselves and our motivations in these aliens IMO. If we really saw them as alien species with fins or three arms or something then we possibly wouldn't relate to them.
In most human languages, the word for our planet is the same as the word for the soil under our feet. It's a logical assumption that an alien race would use their equivalent of the word "earth" to refer to their native planet as well as the ground they walk on.
Lazarus's "my Earth" pretty clearly meant "my homeworld in the same way that Earth is your homeworld." It's an analogy.
And you can find plenty of instances over the decades of people using "Earth" as a generic term for an Earthlike planet. For instance, Firefly referred to the settlers terraforming "a whole galaxy of Earths," and astronomers often refer to terrestrial exoplanets as "other Earths," or "super-Earths" for unusually large ones (just as gas giants close to their stars are called "hot Jupiters"). I'm sure I've seen it in older science fiction stories as well.
And you can find plenty of instances over the decades of people using "Earth" as a generic term for an Earthlike planet. For instance, Firefly referred to the settlers terraforming "a whole galaxy of Earths," and astronomers often refer to terrestrial exoplanets as "other Earths," or "super-Earths" for unusually large ones (just as gas giants close to their stars are called "hot Jupiters"). I'm sure I've seen it in older science fiction stories as well.
Sure, sure. I'm just arguing it's equally consistent with TOS if "Earth" and "human" in this episode are taken literally, and Lazarus' great-great-etc.-granddad was from "Manhattan" on "New York" in "The United States" before those things slid beneath the Caucafrican Plate.
Also, admittedly the episode had major bits end up in cutting room floor or writer wastebasket, but in the aired version we do get most of the scenes where our heroes and villains familiarize themselves with each other. And nowhere does Lazarus learn that Kirk would hail from Earth... Why say "my Earth", then? It would flow more naturally that Lazarus is indeed giving the proper name of his world here.
Timo Saloniemi
Also, admittedly the episode had major bits end up in cutting room floor or writer wastebasket, but in the aired version we do get most of the scenes where our heroes and villains familiarize themselves with each other. And nowhere does Lazarus learn that Kirk would hail from Earth... Why say "my Earth", then? It would flow more naturally that Lazarus is indeed giving the proper name of his world here.
Timo Saloniemi
That was part of what I was driving at, Human as a species may be from any planet, but Earthicans or Terrans or Earthlings are only from "Earth"
So Laz certainly may be "Human" but not from Earth.
He certainly used the term "my Earth" as "Homeworld" not a paralell earth. There's quite enough of that, no need to find more.
Or then there's Humanoid, which is like a human but not.
It also, it depresses me I'm from the planet Dirt. I hope it's first name isn't Joe.
So Laz certainly may be "Human" but not from Earth.
He certainly used the term "my Earth" as "Homeworld" not a paralell earth. There's quite enough of that, no need to find more.
Or then there's Humanoid, which is like a human but not.
It also, it depresses me I'm from the planet Dirt. I hope it's first name isn't Joe.
Sure, those are the standard conventions, but as I've been saying, there are a number of older works of science fiction that use "human" interchangeably with "humanoid" or that use "Earth" to mean "Earthlike alien planet." And I think "The Alternative Factor" was using the terms in that way rather than the more familiar way.
Another little nugget to throw into the mix...
On the ship, Spock referred to the figure on the planet from his sensor readings (and I'm paraphrasing) "Body temperature 98.5...mass...electrical impulses...it is apparently human, Captain".
On the ship, Spock referred to the figure on the planet from his sensor readings (and I'm paraphrasing) "Body temperature 98.5...mass...electrical impulses...it is apparently human, Captain".
^Yes, granted, but again, there are examples in early science fiction of writers using "human" interchangeably with "humanoid alien." Not to mention that we're talking about one of the worst, most nonsensical episodes in the series, an episode that defines dilithium and antimatter in ways that contradict every other episode in the franchise. Nothing about its terminology usage should be trusted or taken as authoritative.
All too true. But the sensor readings, in conjunction with Lazarus' claim about "his Earth" being below them, it's easy to see how one could confuse the meaning.
Except wouldn't someone have mentioned if Lazarus' planet had the necessary uncanny resemblance to a dead planet Earth, or wondering how the hell it got all the way out to where the Enterprise was if it was supposed to be Earth?
I think it's the writer who was confused.
I'd say "Miri" was an astronomical coincidence, while Lazarus's thing was a figure of speech.
Possibly so. But if it happened once, it could happen several times. That is, if Earth got duplicated by some weird process, that process might be repeated or spawn several copies. (The odds of two Earths being born separately and evolving through billions of years to create completely identical results aren't astronomical, but something well beyond that!)
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
But it was important enought to note the first time. Whereas here no one says anything.
Besides I don't think the plant Lazarus is from even looks like earth.
Well he didn't even dress like an earthman! Not of our time or the Federation future!
JB
JB
The "noting" consists of the following exchange:
The episode provides no insight into how the impossible could be possible. Our heroes leave it at that. What would go differently the next time around? Well, they shouldn't be surprised...
Give it a few million years. Lazarus was supposed to come from an advanced future where hopping between universes is possible, and he's somehow different, too (recuperates like a dinosaur, whatever this means).
(And never mind that Kirk himself does that within a few episodes, in "Mirror, Mirror"!)
Timo Saloniemi
