Which is why TFF should never have been made, and the TOS movie franchise should have concluded with TVH.
Star Trek Generations at 20 (November 18, 1994)
- Thread starter cooleddie74
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Which is why TFF should never have been made, and the TOS movie franchise should have concluded with TVH.
For what it's worth, here's the alternate ending from the PC video game adaptation of Generations:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyWy9Zsz1MU
As the page description notes, getting this ending is a pain in the ass, because firstly you have to track down Soran before he gets to Veridian III, and then you have to beat an armada of ships in the game's ship combat mode (which is incredibly difficult).
Hardly a conclusive alternative ending for the movie mind you, but it's still an interesting novelty to see an ending where both the Enterprise-D survives and Kirk presumably remains alive inside the Nexus.
I like to think this alternative ending is also the one that eventually leads to the alternative future universe seen in "All Good Things".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyWy9Zsz1MU
As the page description notes, getting this ending is a pain in the ass, because firstly you have to track down Soran before he gets to Veridian III, and then you have to beat an armada of ships in the game's ship combat mode (which is incredibly difficult).
Hardly a conclusive alternative ending for the movie mind you, but it's still an interesting novelty to see an ending where both the Enterprise-D survives and Kirk presumably remains alive inside the Nexus.
I like to think this alternative ending is also the one that eventually leads to the alternative future universe seen in "All Good Things".
For one of the first Strange New Worlds contests I wrote a story called "Memories of Tomorrow" where I tried to show how things went wrong in Generations and diverted the timeline away from "All Good Things."
The idea was that Picard had impressions from his "All Good Things" experience that made him cocky. He didn't remember the exact details of the Soran incident. What he did remember is that Soran escaped and blew up Veridian III. With that in mind, Picard realized he had to pursue Soran more aggressively -- with the results we saw on screen. Picard comes to accept that's for the best because it means the future isn't set in stone.
The idea was that Picard had impressions from his "All Good Things" experience that made him cocky. He didn't remember the exact details of the Soran incident. What he did remember is that Soran escaped and blew up Veridian III. With that in mind, Picard realized he had to pursue Soran more aggressively -- with the results we saw on screen. Picard comes to accept that's for the best because it means the future isn't set in stone.
It was easier to be optimistic and put a positive spin on them when they were still coming out. But hindsight is damning, and it proves to be such a weak, stumbling series of films that it brings them all down.
As I said earlier, it doesn't help that The Next Generation on television had genuinely done bold and different things with the Star Trek universe, and was praised for that. The TNG movies just felt static and unmoving by comparison (especially given that the contemporaneous DS9 was expanding the universe even more than TNG had).
I also agree and I think Nemesis is the best TNG movie too. First Contact is not the worst for me though. Insurrection is.I tend to agree, though Nemesis is my favorite of the TNG films. So what do I know?First Contact is my least favorite of all the films. It has tonal problems, Frakes' direction was dull, and it was disposable.
I accept that mine is an outlier view.
Not sure it's the best, but a recent viewing revised my opinion of NEM upwards, and I also managed to convince another forumite to watch it and he found he quite liked it (better than INS, anyway).
If we have quorum, maybe it's time to revise the official consensus on the movies?
Yes, overall I have good feelings about that scene, as it's a bit of light-heartedness in between the serious stuff, and establishes the TNG crew characters and dynamic nicely. It is a bit odd, though, that Worf is featured in this scene and then has almost nothing to do for the rest of the movie.
I don't see how filming on a pre-existing boat for a couple of days (right next to the marina) could have "blown the budget". All that sparkling ocean was free, you know.
It was disappointing that Worf got almost nothing to do for the rest of the movie. He's basically in the background until the Enterprise is destroyed and then you don't see him anymore except for the deleted scene where he and Geordi are revealed to have piloted the shuttlecraft that found Picard and retrieved him.
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cRl9ijdD2s[/yt]
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cRl9ijdD2s[/yt]
My wife and I went and saw it opening night at a big theatre in the Westwood area of Los Angeles. After the movie, we spotted Rick Berman talking with some other folks in the lobby. My wife walked up and complemented him on the movie.
We both enjoyed that first viewing -- it was great to see the TNG cast and the Enterprise D on the big screen. And I do still occasionally watch Generations -- it's not a terrible movie, although not as good as I thought it was that first night.
On reflection, my opinion then, and now is: The opening sequence on the Enterprise B is pretty good, even if Harriman is more of a wuss than he really needed to be. I enjoy the scene on the holodeck, although it's pretty much fluff as far as the plot is concerned. The shots of the Enterprise E crashing on the planet are great, and I don't know if even today's CGI could duplicate them convincingly. The interaction between Shatner and Stewart is well-worth watching.
My chief complaint, and the thing that I think really weakens the movie, is that the plot is not driven by Picard. The key events, right up until the very end, are controlled by Soran, who, unfortunately, is far from Trek's greatest adversary. To me the contrast is seen between Generations and TWOK. In the latter, Khan certainly sets things in motion, but Kirk continually is responding to the challenge, forcing Khan to change his strategy. It's like a chess match between two masters. In Generations, Soran is calling all the shots, and Picard just chases along playing catch up.
Fortunately, we next got First Contact, a far better movie.
We both enjoyed that first viewing -- it was great to see the TNG cast and the Enterprise D on the big screen. And I do still occasionally watch Generations -- it's not a terrible movie, although not as good as I thought it was that first night.
On reflection, my opinion then, and now is: The opening sequence on the Enterprise B is pretty good, even if Harriman is more of a wuss than he really needed to be. I enjoy the scene on the holodeck, although it's pretty much fluff as far as the plot is concerned. The shots of the Enterprise E crashing on the planet are great, and I don't know if even today's CGI could duplicate them convincingly. The interaction between Shatner and Stewart is well-worth watching.
My chief complaint, and the thing that I think really weakens the movie, is that the plot is not driven by Picard. The key events, right up until the very end, are controlled by Soran, who, unfortunately, is far from Trek's greatest adversary. To me the contrast is seen between Generations and TWOK. In the latter, Khan certainly sets things in motion, but Kirk continually is responding to the challenge, forcing Khan to change his strategy. It's like a chess match between two masters. In Generations, Soran is calling all the shots, and Picard just chases along playing catch up.
Fortunately, we next got First Contact, a far better movie.
Problem with this scene is you'd then expect it to cut to Picard saying "You ******* ******! You broke my ******** ship!"
It is amusing (or annoying, whichever you prefer) that when Geordi confirms there was a major problem with the Klingons and something happened involving the Enterprise, Picard asks no further questions before boarding the shuttlecraft. Maybe it was designed to be one of those implied, offscreen moments where Geordi and Worf inform him about the Enterprise's destruction after the shuttle takes off, but it just looks a little awkward for Picard not to say anything else.
Maybe that's a significant part of the reason why it's not in the final edit of the film. It just isn't a very good or well-designed scene.
Maybe that's a significant part of the reason why it's not in the final edit of the film. It just isn't a very good or well-designed scene.
Location shooting isn't free though. Beautiful as it is the production crew don't work for free.
Am I the only one who thinks Data did nothing wrong in that scene?
Well I actually didn't know why it was OK to toss Worf in - I'm not Navy enough I suppose.
How was Data supposed to know?
And then given Crusher's OOT outrage I'm glad Data pushed her in.
Am I the only one who thinks Data did nothing wrong in that scene?
Naw -- I think most of the audience is actually on Data's side.
I know for sure that when Geordi says "Data, that wasn't funny!", I always think to myself 'Yes it was!!!'
I was on Data's side. I love that crew for the most part, but the way some of them were often written they could be big sticks in the mud. Data's shove always makes me smile.
Am I the only one who thinks Data did nothing wrong in that scene?
Naw -- I think most of the audience is actually on Data's side.
Same here. It was even worse when I saw it in the theatre and Geordi's line was nearly drowned out by the audience ROARING with laughter.
Naw -- I think most of the audience is actually on Data's side.Am I the only one who thinks Data did nothing wrong in that scene?
Yes, deliberately funny. It's part of the "Data as child" humour - the adults tell the child that knocking drunken uncle into horse poo was the wrong thing to do, but they're all laughing on the inside.
At least the scene got intentional laughter. There are moments in the other TNG films that aren't so fortunate. But yeah, it's hard not to at least smile when Beverly gets pushed into the holographic water and falls on top of Worf.
Fun fact: in that scene Michael Dorn's costume pants have red paint from the sailing ship on his knees. It was a slight blooper that was either not noticed or considered so minor that it wouldn't be a real distraction.
Its police mugshot after the high-speed chase is going to be very interesting.
Horrible deleted scene.
The natural reaction for Picard would've been the obvious, "What do you mean? What the hell happened?"
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