Kind of makes one wonder.... "Professor! you touch me in ways I never been touched before....."
Declaring Ethnicity
- Thread starter Tiberius Jim
- Start date
Kind of makes one wonder.... "Professor! you touch me in ways I never been touched before....."
I think he only had one or two classes, set construction was one I took with him. He was primarily the technical director for stage productions, meaning he designed the sets, costumes, lighting, props, etc., and supervised the students working those areas. He was a very funny guy, wicked sense of humor.
I know I'm chiming in on this real late, but my only question is why an application for a job even asks about ethnicity? What difference does it make? I don't mean that from the perspective of the falsehood that 'we're not supposed to notice' (all the while the application shines a light on it), but that anyone can perform any job regardless of it. I just don't see the relevance.
Could be, but I still say in the long run, things like that will keep people down. Why don't they just line us up boy, girl, boy, girl like they used to in grammar school? 
Interesting how the thoughtful and thorough post I made on the privileged and harmful nature of this position was just completely ignored. It illustrates my point perfectly: ignoring race is a privilege that non-white people don't have.Bravo. I couldn't have said that better myself.
Okay, this thinly veiled homophobia is getting obnoxious. Cut it out.
Interesting how the thoughtful and thorough post I made on the privileged and harmful nature of this position was just completely ignored. It illustrates my point perfectly: ignoring race is a privilege that non-white people don't have.Bravo. I couldn't have said that better myself.
Okay, this thinly veiled homophobia is getting obnoxious. Cut it out.
Is it? It really hasn't started.
Is that meant to imply that you don't think you've said anything homophobic so far or that you intend to say more? If it's the latter, don't.
True, I could say I find your avatar a bit offensive because the lightsaber going limp and than hard like a male sexual organ.
You know, this began because of your attempt at a joke from my recollection of a gay theatre professor, and I didn't make any suggestion that he ever did anything improper. He did not. But your reply to it seemed to suggest that was his intent.
eta:
In those days, especially in southeastern Missouri, people were afraid to come out. His arrival in the department presented a role model for other young men who had hidden their orientation for the two earlier semesters I had known them. So I think what happened was good, because he made those young men feel more comfortable about acknowledging who they were.
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I was giving you the benefit of the doubt before, but being a smartass is definitely not the way to proceed when a mod asks you not to make any future homophobic remarks, if that was indeed your intent. I wasn't accusing you of deliberately being homophobic before or intending to be homophobic again, but your reply to tsq left it up in the air what you would do, so I wanted to nip it in the bud. I don't need you to say anything in reply to this, especially not any snarky comment to get the last word. Just move on.
That's just what I'm saying, tsq. I've lived those arguments. Quite literally lived them. I know them inside out, backward, upside down, and sideways because they scored and scarred my soul. I'm not ignoring them at all. I happen to believe that the best way to end racism is to simply, well, end it. Yes, that's very simplistic, and yes, it's a stand that I cannot force on anyone else. But I cannot force anything on anyone else, anyway. The only thing I can do is the best I can, and this is how I choose to fight. I've explained my stance to several people of a variety of ethnicities (when asked about it), and their responses were all positive. Granted, my sampling is very small, but it gives me hope. Now, do I see the world differently because I'm "white" rather than "black"? I'm sure I do. I see the world differently because I'm female rather than male, American rather than Egyptian, Christian rather than atheist, a parent rather than childless. Are those differences privileges? I don't think so. They are simply differences.Interesting how the thoughtful and thorough post I made on the privileged and harmful nature of this position was just completely ignored. It illustrates my point perfectly: ignoring race is a privilege that non-white people don't have.Bravo. I couldn't have said that better myself.
Frankly, I believe in MLK's Dream. I want to live in a world where we are judged by the content of our character rather than the color of our skin. If that world is to ever happen, I have to make it happen. I cannot wait for others to outgrow their prejudices and ideals about skin color. So, I am doing what I can, and what I can do this: I don't care what color your skin is any more than I care what color your hair or eyes are. That is first determined by genetics, which you cannot control. What you can control is your character. Who you are is much more important that what you look like.
I've missed you, tsq.
Well, many might disagree with you, especially me...who has been treated different at various points in my life in workplaces or school environments because I wasn't of a certain race. Yes, they are 'differences' because an individual - usually a person of color - is automatically judged or treated differently either on a conscious or subconscious level.
I'm pretty sure those black individuals who were lynched during the Civil Rights era, or segregated in hotels or schools during that same time, or even those black (or brown, or even lesser cases yellow )individuals harassed by police weren't harassed just because of minor 'differences.' (And yes, I was also harassed by a white officer at one point - 2007 - just for walking on a street and making eye contact with him. An incident that was followed by a complaint to the police department). Not too mention the countless incidents that have been caught lately on phone or social media in regards to trigger-happy police officers and incidents with people of color.
Those aren't due to 'minor differences.'
Usually those individuals with 'white privileges' can brush off anything racial nonchalantly, usually with claims that we are in a 'post-racial world' or that racism is all but abolished in the world, specifically the U.S.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but your previous post came off like that. And, I'm sure that wasn't what MLK's dream was....(or even the dream of Malcolm X, Solomon Northup, Angela Davis, or Yuri Kochiyama).Here is something I came across today on my Facebook feed:
Race in Brazil
And, I will reference wikipedia on 'white privilege' here:
White Privilege
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I don't think that racism is abolished. If it were, this discussion wouldn't be happening.
I'm not a naïve little Pollyanna. I know this stuff exists. I know it's ugly and cruel and vicious. You seem to think that I came to my conclusions in sweet, innocent simple-mindedness, but that's not the case. I've been on the *receiving* end of racism several times in my life. *Gasp* How can that be? I'm white! That never happens! Why, yes, it does. And, it's just as wrong.
You also seem to think that I'm running around being nonchalant about racism. See, I think that you don't seem to understand that people like me, who think that racism CAN be made to go away if people actually care enough to want it to, exist and are fighting for this. I am anything but nonchalant about this issue because it has affected me deeply.
I am very sorry that you have your negative stories. That is a tough burden to carry, and I wish you peace and healing. What I have learned, though, from my stories (and I have them), is that when you do step back and resolve to live your life by your terms, people will generally live up to what you expect of them.
Listen carefully, please. I choose to value character over color. For me, it really is that simple.
I'm not a naïve little Pollyanna. I know this stuff exists. I know it's ugly and cruel and vicious. You seem to think that I came to my conclusions in sweet, innocent simple-mindedness, but that's not the case. I've been on the *receiving* end of racism several times in my life. *Gasp* How can that be? I'm white! That never happens! Why, yes, it does. And, it's just as wrong.
You also seem to think that I'm running around being nonchalant about racism. See, I think that you don't seem to understand that people like me, who think that racism CAN be made to go away if people actually care enough to want it to, exist and are fighting for this. I am anything but nonchalant about this issue because it has affected me deeply.
I am very sorry that you have your negative stories. That is a tough burden to carry, and I wish you peace and healing. What I have learned, though, from my stories (and I have them), is that when you do step back and resolve to live your life by your terms, people will generally live up to what you expect of them.
Listen carefully, please. I choose to value character over color. For me, it really is that simple.
^^ Joel, nobody is saying that racism doesn't exist. Of course it does. And one of the best ways to fight it is through education, and that includes educating people that there is just one human race.
No, it illustrates that I don't have the time or inclination to engage in another endless and pointless argument, especially since your post was about culture, not racism. Why you would object to the fact that there is only one human race, I have no idea, but I guess that's the state of the political climate these days. Nevertheless, I will continue to advocate breaking down barriers, whether it's fashionable or not.Interesting how the thoughtful and thorough post I made on the privileged and harmful nature of this position was just completely ignored. It illustrates my point perfectly: ignoring race is a privilege that non-white people don't have.Bravo. I couldn't have said that better myself.
Which is a thing white people love to say because it's supposed to get all those pesky non-white people to stop talking about race. We were more than happy to be all about race when we could use it to subjugate, enslave, and oppress. Now that other people have taken the concept for themselves and use it to identify in solidarity with one another, well, whitey's not too happy with that, so let's try to erase it.
It's true, we're all human, and we all have to find a way to share this planet. That doesn't mean we should encourage people to give up their hard-fought identities, because that's what you are suggesting. Black Americans (in particular) can be very protective of their identities as black people precisely because white slavers and settlers did everything they could to deny black people an identity and a culture. They developed one anyway, and they are rightly proud of it--but, of course, white people continually denigrate, dismiss, mock, and appropriate it.
If anything is going to solve racism, it won't be white people declaring "race doesn't exist except in that we're all the human race." I guarantee it.
Obviously we all agree that putting an end to racism is a laudable goal. However, acknowledging race is not the same as racism. As I pointed out before, discrimination is to a degree inherent -- it is part of our innate psychology, and ignoring it won't make it go away. On top of that, denying the impact that people's skin color has on their lives won't end racism, it just delegitimizes their experiences.That's just what I'm saying, tsq. I've lived those arguments. Quite literally lived them. I know them inside out, backward, upside down, and sideways because they scored and scarred my soul. I'm not ignoring them at all. I happen to believe that the best way to end racism is to simply, well, end it. Yes, that's very simplistic, and yes, it's a stand that I cannot force on anyone else. But I cannot force anything on anyone else, anyway. The only thing I can do is the best I can, and this is how I choose to fight. I've explained my stance to several people of a variety of ethnicities (when asked about it), and their responses were all positive. Granted, my sampling is very small, but it gives me hope. Now, do I see the world differently because I'm "white" rather than "black"? I'm sure I do. I see the world differently because I'm female rather than male, American rather than Egyptian, Christian rather than atheist, a parent rather than childless. Are those differences privileges? I don't think so. They are simply differences.Interesting how the thoughtful and thorough post I made on the privileged and harmful nature of this position was just completely ignored. It illustrates my point perfectly: ignoring race is a privilege that non-white people don't have.Bravo. I couldn't have said that better myself.
Privilege isn't the same thing as differences. It's not about how you see the world, it's about how the world sees you. It's about all the ways being white benefits you, while being not-white damages others. Honestly, I think this comic explains it better than I ever could:
http://everydayfeminism.com/2014/09/white-privilege-explained/
Agreed on all counts, but again, erasing prejudices doesn't mean erasing ethnicity. And, for the reasons I gave in my earlier response to RJ, I think it does more harm than good to try.
Mutual!I've missed you, tsq.
The level to which you are disregarding what I wrote is just insulting. I addressed the biological, psychological, and sociological contributors to racism. I countered your claims on each of these levels and explained why I think they are ethically misguided, ultimately causing more harm than good...and you ignored it, which is again, a privilege that POC don't generally have. A debate is only pointless to the closed minded. I'm willing to hear and consider counter arguments, if you're not, just say so, but don't go misrepresenting what I wrote.
Where did I say that? In fact, I said quite the opposite:
I just pointed out that humans aren't so simple. Did you even read what I actually wrote? Because it really doesn't seem like it. The only one denying facts here is you.thestrangequark said:
You are not breaking down barriers, you are shutting down discussion.
