Yeah, which is coincidently my favourite Science Fiction show ^-^ But it's dead and gone and there's still so much that was never explored on that show, especially after the original writer left.
Your ideal New Trek Series
- Thread starter jmampilly
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Yeah, which is coincidently my favourite Science Fiction show ^-^ But it's dead and gone and there's still so much that was never explored on that show, especially after the original writer left.
There have been periods in the history of several civilizations when they were at a low ebb, without completely collapsing. China and ancient Egypt, I believe, had a few such periods.
The Hittites, which were a bronze age civilization, had a century of this, the so called Middle Kingdom. Eventually their fortunes improved because of a killer app-iron.
The Hittites, which were a bronze age civilization, had a century of this, the so called Middle Kingdom. Eventually their fortunes improved because of a killer app-iron.
I think the best time to have a new series premier would be in a year and a half, coinciding with the release of Star Trek Thirteen. Even if the series had little or nothing to do with the events of the movie.
As I understand it, at the time he was originally hired the producers did not realize what a poor performer Wang would turn out to be, they knew he was inexperienced, but the audition process went well. The budget didn't permit them to hire only seasoned actors and actresses.
There was nothing wrong with the character, they simply choose the wrong actor for the part.
I do wonder if it is benefit to any society to have a population who aspire to be artists, rock stars, secret agents and race car drivers.
While I do think there would be some kind of minimal social safety net to prevent people from freezing/starving in the streets (like a modern shelter), we do know that in the late 23rd century people are still buying and selling their homes. I can only remember a single Human (a young man) in the 24th century who wasn't employed in some job or the spouse/child of someone with a job. Picard's brother was in agriculture, Sisko's father in food service, Riker's father is a military consultant.
What I'm getting at is I don't think basic services are being "provided" by society. Technology might make all the basics obtainable, but people are obtaining them through their own financial means.
Okay, now explain the waitresses. And the housekeeper. And the guy doing janitorial at Starfleet Academy.
Well, as you said, the basic needs are not universal for all human beings. Some people find fulfillment through a variety of means. Full potential can have different meaning to different people. Just because the job is not for you does not mean someone does not find fulfillment through that task. I would imagine that service to the greater society would be regarded as virtuous in the Federation, but that is just my opinion.
Beyond that, what financial means are you referring to in terms of acquisition? Given the fact that the Federation is (supposedly) currency-less, the only aspect of Sisko's restaurant, or Picard's chateau is that they are unique within Federation because of the unique experiences of Sisko and Picard in those fields. That makes their wares unique, but the basics are still provided.
A variation of this idea is a ship, much like what you described, becoming trapped in an alternate reality during an accident, one in which the Federation fell (alternate Klingon-Federation War, Dominion War, war with the Romulans, or some other enemy that wasn't explored as much, such as the blue gilled parasites, Kelvans, or Andromedans.
Soon after the accident, they are attacked my one of the dominant factions in this timeline, and damaged, with no known way to get back to their timeline, and without help from Starfleet.
So the first season is about the ship trying to find a way home, fighting off factions that want their ship and/or lives, but there could also be this element of these factions seeing this ship as a sign of hope, even a godsend, and hoping to help them fight these factions. There could be arguments against the crew on whether they should help those under siege or under the boots of the more aggressive, dominant factions, or maintain a low profile, and try not to make any more enemies than they already have.
Maybe in the next seasons, the ship and crew must come to terms that they might never see their home universe again, and must begin to make the best of this new universe. Curious what lead to the downfall of the Federation in this timeline, they also attempt to find clues to the events that resulted in this.
They must contemplate the possibility of answering the call of leading these people who have been oppressed by these aggressive factions, which grow more and more as time goes on, but they also find themselves hunted even more as this occurs, being seen as a threat, and must also struggle to keep the ship battle worthy, without any port of safety to go to. Perhaps there is the possibility of them trying to salvage what they can from the former Federation worlds, while evading enemy ships.
This way, you have a post-apocolyptic world, without fans complaining "you've ruined Gene Roddenberry's utopia!".
Soon after the accident, they are attacked my one of the dominant factions in this timeline, and damaged, with no known way to get back to their timeline, and without help from Starfleet.
So the first season is about the ship trying to find a way home, fighting off factions that want their ship and/or lives, but there could also be this element of these factions seeing this ship as a sign of hope, even a godsend, and hoping to help them fight these factions. There could be arguments against the crew on whether they should help those under siege or under the boots of the more aggressive, dominant factions, or maintain a low profile, and try not to make any more enemies than they already have.
Maybe in the next seasons, the ship and crew must come to terms that they might never see their home universe again, and must begin to make the best of this new universe. Curious what lead to the downfall of the Federation in this timeline, they also attempt to find clues to the events that resulted in this.
They must contemplate the possibility of answering the call of leading these people who have been oppressed by these aggressive factions, which grow more and more as time goes on, but they also find themselves hunted even more as this occurs, being seen as a threat, and must also struggle to keep the ship battle worthy, without any port of safety to go to. Perhaps there is the possibility of them trying to salvage what they can from the former Federation worlds, while evading enemy ships.
This way, you have a post-apocolyptic world, without fans complaining "you've ruined Gene Roddenberry's utopia!".
Now, what's the best way to be of service to the greater society?
We seek to improve ourselves and humanity, which easily means different things to different people. I could advocate improving yourself through increasing your personal independence, obtaining your own financial means and taking a degree of pride in managing your own affairs, as opposed to having to have others do this FOR you.
Improving humanity could (one aspect of many) be accomplished through society creating a environment of employment opportunities, where the members of society would be able to support themselves, their families, their life style and (again) not have to have others do this FOR them.
Only if events and circumstances render you incapable would others then step in to take over your personal affairs FROM you.
This could be my advocacy for the betterment of humanity, and realistically I could probably find others within the future society whose ideas on the subject would be the same or not too far different.
But wait you might say, the betterment of humanity can only be accomplish through the government (or some other management apparatus) simply providing these things. Shelter, food, etc., the entire bottom rung of Maslow’s silly hierarchy.
I could come back that as a equal member of the future society that unless you're incapable you won't be provided for, it isn't that society can't, it's that it's that society won't.
There will be a minimum social safety net, you will not starve or freeze (unless you freely choose to), and there'll be a clean safe place for you to sleep. But that's about it.
Starfleet security alway seems short handed for some reason, there's a recruiting office just up the street.
The financial means that Beverly Crusher employed to make a purchase in the very first TNG episode.
Most of my purchases today are currency-less, the majority involve direct transfers of value from my account to the merchant's account. No currency.
Strictly speaking, provide by whom?
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Oh yes! Egypt's intermediate periods between the Old, Middle and New Kingdoms. I was always fascinated by those eras especially since there is still considerate debate as to how much of a low ebb/collapse they were.
And well, arguably, isn't Western Civilisation at a low ebb at the moment?
This could be really a more subtle way to portray a Federation universe past its glory days, don't always have to hit things with the "Post Apocalyptic" hammer.
I think it could be conisdered realistic that a cultural shock, general ennui and lack of hope after the Dominion War could have sled the Federation (as well as the other mayor powers of the Alpha/Beta Quadrants) into such a period.
Very little innovation, the Federation would shrink rather than expand, a sort of stagnant pool of history (at least that would be of how many characters in universe would see it)
BTW I don't mean to imply that spirituality would only enter Federation society because of its "Dark Age". I just always thought this aspect of life got the short stick in Star Trek and I don't buy the "Everyone's an Atheist" line.
I think Western Civilization would warrant its own thread.
Now, what's the best way to be of service to the greater society?
We seek to improve ourselves and humanity, which easily means different things to different people. I could advocate improving yourself through increasing your personal independence, obtaining your own financial means and taking a degree of pride in managing your own affairs, as opposed to having to have others do this FOR you.
Improving humanity could (one aspect of many) be accomplished through society creating a environment of employment opportunities, where the members of society would be able to support themselves, their families, their life style and (again) not have to have others do this FOR them.
Only if events and circumstances render you incapable would others then step in to take over your personal affairs FROM you.
This could be my advocacy for the betterment of humanity, and realistically I could probably find others within the future society whose ideas on the subject would be the same or not too far different.
But wait you might say, the betterment of humanity can only be accomplish through the government (or some other management apparatus) simply providing these things. Shelter, food, etc., the entire bottom rung of Maslow’s silly hierarchy.
I could come back that as a equal member of the future society that unless you're incapable you won't be provided for, it isn't that society can't, it's that it's that society won't.
There will be a minimum social safety net, you will not starve or freeze (unless you freely choose to), and there'll be a clean safe place for you to sleep. But that's about it.
Starfleet security alway seems short handed for some reason, there's a recruiting office just up the street.
The financial means that Beverly Crusher employed to make a purchase in the very first TNG episode.
Most of my purchases today are currency-less, the majority involve direct transfers of value from my account to the merchant's account. No currency.
Strictly speaking, provide by whom?
First of all, I'm curious-is there a reason why Maslow annoys you so?
I'm not a ardent adherent to the hierarchy, but it seems to have struck a nerve. So, First of all, I am speaking strictly in a Trek sense, and what has been established in that universe. The betterment of humanity and self-enlightenment is obviously something that differs from person to person, though societies can come together in pursuit of common goals, such as that one. The building up of the individual, as you have already described, either through individual effort, or social interventions designed to provide those opportunities. If I missed something or am speaking too broadly, I apologize.
From a United Earth and humanity standpoint, there seems to be more of a government created benvolence, creating controlled, balanced and planned environments in which things are, apparently, well organized. So, it would seem that the government is providing those basics. Given the advent of replicator technology, I don't find this difficult to imagine.
What impact that has upon individual citizen seems to vary, depending on what work a citizen is doing. Clearly, if they are working to improve themselves and contribute towards the greater society then there seems to be great freedom.
As for currency, keep in mind that I am basing this off of Roddenberry insistence that there were no currency or "credits" (which had been a term used in TOS) by TNG. Obviously, there is some room for interpretation there, since Beverly charged that item, but Jake was unable to acquire the resources to bid on a baseball card. Different circumstances I'll grant, but it is an interesting case nonetheless.
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Yes it can be a prickly subject, though I have never quite understood why, I mean I am religious, but I have no problem with people who aren't, after all I hope that my believes are true, but I can't possibly know it.
To me it is a part of life and so I'd like it to be present in fictional works. There is some religion like the Klingon Faith and the Bajoran Prophets but simply from a world building perspective I'd like to see and know more about the different religions that must exist in the Star Trek universe. What are Betazed believes like, for instance? Or Andorran? Or Cardassian ones? And are there any "major" faiths like the Wayists in Andromeda?
I agree that religion should be something private rather than public, but it could be an aspect of a character's personality.
But it could also be visible in society, like a major religion stepping in to provide charity and stability where the Federation can't reach anymore (like the Vatican and Catholic monasteries in the Dark Ages)
Likewise there could be ecstatic doomsday/salvation cults in the tradition of the Mithras Cult, the Elysian Mysteries and the Flagellants.
The series could pose questions like organized religion vs personal faith, extremism spirituality vs. worldliness. I think it's a shame to ignore a whole part of culture and philosophy just in order not to offend anybody.
True, the situation could be similar to the US after the Civil War. One arc could be to salvage what is left of the Federation and to help it to new heights, this would keep the optimism Star Trek is famous for alive.
It could even be called "Star Trek; Reconstruction" a reconstruction of the Federation and of the idea of an utopian future after it was heavily deconstructed in DS9 ala "Yeah things are pretty s****y right now, but we won't give up!"
Well, I certainly don't see the Federation shrinking anytime soon after the Dominion War. With the Quantum Slipstream technology already being implemented in ships like the Vesta and Merian classes by the early 2380s, I see a new wave of expansion in the Federation's near future.
Maybe after the new-car-smell has worn off from the technologies brought back by the Voyager, and the Federation is not only unable to refine those technologies any further, but unable to come up with or refine any further technology in any innovative fashion, then the Federation will slide back, but short of another war as bad or worse than the Dominion War, with no new innovation to help the Federation somehow recover, I'd say the Federation has at least another good century or two in it's future.
Maybe the Federation would've had it's own form of a recession after the Dominion War and Borg Incursions, though there hasn't been any mention of that being the case.
"A Call To Arms", Babylon 5. There was a problem with the new Victory class ships. The main guns were loosely based on Vorlon weapons array; however, the Vorlon weapons were based on a more sophisticated level of technology. The main guns of the Victory and Excalibur will almost totally drain the ship of energy, leaving the ship momentarily vulnerable.
The question comes to mind-how easily can you adapt the technology of a more sophisticated tech level? Will you end up with a sort of hybrid design? Will it work, and if so, as well as the tech you reverse engineered?
Stargate. It has been commented that the Goa'uld tried to reverse engineer the Ancients' technology. The efforts seem to be partially successful, but not fully matching the Ancients' artifacts.
The question comes to mind-how easily can you adapt the technology of a more sophisticated tech level? Will you end up with a sort of hybrid design? Will it work, and if so, as well as the tech you reverse engineered?
Stargate. It has been commented that the Goa'uld tried to reverse engineer the Ancients' technology. The efforts seem to be partially successful, but not fully matching the Ancients' artifacts.
Aren't only the TV shows really canon?
In any case, just like Tim Walker said having sophisticated technology doesn't mean you can reproduce it on a reliable level. I am not a technical person, but "Quantum Slipstream" sounds like something that could mess up stuff something fierce if it goes bad.
And if it works like in Andromeda, it would probably take ages and a lot of effort to make it a reliable form of travel. (Haven't seen that much of later Voyager, it's kind of my least favourite Trek show)
In any case, just like Tim Walker said having sophisticated technology doesn't mean you can reproduce it on a reliable level. I am not a technical person, but "Quantum Slipstream" sounds like something that could mess up stuff something fierce if it goes bad.
And if it works like in Andromeda, it would probably take ages and a lot of effort to make it a reliable form of travel. (Haven't seen that much of later Voyager, it's kind of my least favourite Trek show)
TV and the movies too.
Everything else, pro-stories, fan-stories, tech manuals, game source books, others, while interesting are all at the same level of "non-canon."
I'm not an expert, but I have read articles about the difficulties of re-creating a technology way above your native tech level.
One catch is that you need advanced technology to make high tech products. It wouldn't be enough, for example, to reverse engineer a computer chip. These, as I understand it, are made in a factory using high tech machines. So you would have to reverse engineer the factory.
One catch is that you need advanced technology to make high tech products. It wouldn't be enough, for example, to reverse engineer a computer chip. These, as I understand it, are made in a factory using high tech machines. So you would have to reverse engineer the factory.
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TV and the movies too.
Everything else, pro-stories, fan-stories, tech manuals, game source books, others, while interesting are all at the same level of "non-canon."
Ah thanks, yeah I forgot about the movies, aside from "Undiscovered Country" I never liked them very much. Is slipstream mentioned in Insurrection or Nemesis?
In general I could see the question if The Federation could reverse engineer slipstream (and manage to turn it into a reliable form of transport) is similar to the question if we'd someow be able to dump a commercial airliner into Victorian London, would they be able to reproduce it and set up a trans-European airline while Vicky is still on the throne?
Only that Slipstream is far more complicated than an airplane; you can gt lost in it, end up at the complete opposite side of the Galaxy you intended to or perhaps even get stranded in the stream itself. Where do you enter, where do you leave?
Routes would have to be mapped out (if that is possible) which has the potential for many losses among explorers like the early age of sea discoveries on Earth.
Also what if the most safe/vital Slipstream Routes are nowhere near prominent planets? They would decay, while less important or newly settled planets closer to those routes would experience growth. Again, I am just working with how I understood Slipstream from Andromeda.
And that leaves out the possibility that Slipstream might not be the safest place to travel through, it might be a bit of a SciFi cliche (see the "Hyperspace is a Scary Place" page on TV tropes) but we already now about species and....things... that inhabit other...kinds...of space like Species 8472, the Q and the Thing from Silence has Lease, what if the latter's family is lurking about Slipstream and suddenly notices that they have lots of tiny, mortal creatures to play with? Or similar Eldritch Horrors? It could almost end up being like the Warp in Warhammer 40k (only, hopefully less silly and over-the top)
That being said a series (or story arc) exploring the dangers and possibilities of Slipstream would be excellent as well and quite compatible with my idea.
In the First Season, we could get causal mention of some researchers still experimenting with Slipstream Technology and that some, very hopeful individuals consider it the thing that might get the Federation out of its slump. Then, further down the line there actually is a breakthrough and suddenly Slipstream get's hailed as the Federation's savior....until they discover something about it that they really didn't want to know and now the question would be whether the advantages of Slipstream would outweigh its dangers.
black box technology http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlackBox
In the past, I have without success attempted to post a link for a tv tropes article, Imported Alien Phlebotinum.
In the past, I have without success attempted to post a link for a tv tropes article, Imported Alien Phlebotinum.
As for Slipstream, I doubt one would make a giant leap to a mature technology. After many failures, success, such as it is, might seem almost random. You get lucky and you reach someplace both interesting and very remote.
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