Rate 8x12: Death In Heaven

[Starkers]

I must be the only person who's glad Osgood's dead, never really cared that much for her, just some annoying geek to me. Plus her death had a nice dramatic impact, It showed what the Master is truly capable of.

Osgood as a companion would have been very interesting. What if a fan traveled in the TARDIS? Very similar to Izzy, but a decade older.

It's interesting. The critical acclaim for this episode was great but the fan reaction on the message boards I've visited is very mixed.

That's the way it's been all season. The reviews love it, the fan reaction in fora and social media is more ambivalent. It's very puzzling why opinions are as divergent as they are. In some cases, I've wondered if reviewers are watching a different show than I am. (I haven't hated this season. It's a very polished production. But I don't like thinking about it, because I stop enjoying it when I do.)

I think in many ways you've answered your own question. Fans have a tendency (me included) to think too much about the show rather than just enjoying it for what it is.

I have several friends who I wouldn't count as fans (as in the context of fan as someone who posts on here, watches a lot of Dr Who etc) who have been less than impressed at times this year.

I've enjoyed S8 overall, there's been some ropey episodes, but there always are. I like Capaldi and the season, as you say, has been very slick.

Have I felt the same unbridled joy I felt during most of Smith's run. No, I'm afraid I haven't, but doesn't mean I don't still enjoy the show, I just miss Matt, Karen and Arthur, but that's the nature of Doctor Who, and Capaldi is a perfectly good Doctor (aside from, as I said, he sometimes seems to fade into the background a little) and, for me at least, Moffat hasn't been in post too long (though with the best will in the world I think he ought to be making plans to move on soon, just from the perspective of giving the show a bit of a shakeup).

 

[Lakenheath 72]

From watching the Classic Doctor Who, hyponosis works when there is direct eye contact between the two parties. It can be countered by the mark with them filling their minds with nonsense. Example, Jo Grant in "Frontier in Space". The guards were behind Missy, so they couldn't be hypnotized.

For me, the plane sequence is an example of bad writing and ignorance of SOP. The following steps would have been taken:
1.) The Master would have been patted down, and any device she had would have been taken from her. She would have her eyes covered, so that she couldn't hypnotized anyone.
2.) The plane would have fighter escorts.
3.) The plane wouldn't have been named "Boat One". This is the callsign for a naval vessel. Many VIP planes, those that carry national leaders, are called Air Force (or country, ex. Air India One) One.

Conditions 1 and 2 would have required a more sophisticated approach to how the Master defeated UNIT and escaped from the plane.

And, was it necessary to insult American viewers by saying that their leaders are bumbling fools who resort to prayer in a crisis?

 

[Brent]

And, was it necessary to insult American viewers by saying that their leaders are bumbling fools who resort to prayer in a crisis?

As an American, I noticed this in the episode. It felt a bit out of place, I don't know why it was put in there, it didn't really serve a purpose to the story IMO.

I'm not offended easily, but I will say I didn't prefer this statement, I would like to think the show is more open minded than to put down people who pray. Praying, is also not limited to religious aspects. Praying, in general, is a world wide activity.

Also, it is a big stereotype, this country seems to be headed into a more secular future than it use to be.

With as much pro-homosexuality Doctor Who has been, it just wreaks of bigotry to put down people who pray, no matter what country they are from.

 

[StCoop]

And, was it necessary to insult American viewers by saying that their leaders are bumbling fools who resort to prayer in a crisis?

As an American, I noticed this in the episode. It felt a bit out of place, I don't know why it was put in there, it didn't really serve a purpose to the story IMO.

Given that America has just voted back in all the people who don't believe in Evoution, Climate Change, Gun Control, Gay Marriage, Abortion rights etc. etc. you got off lightly...

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

This is one of those stories where the more you think about it more sloppy you realize it is.

True. The script broke all of the most basic rules of screenwriting (sometimes writers can get away with that, but I don't think Moffat did this time.)

The story was nothing more than a string of very loosely connected events, like the kind of story a little kid would tell: "This happens AND THEN this happens AND THEN this happens AND THEN..." Nothing was organic, nothing seemed to have any consequence or any dramatic weight.

Clara pretending to be the Doctor had no impact on the plot. UNIT had no impact on the plot. The Doctor becoming Earth's president had no impact on the plot. Osgood's death had no impact on the plot. Kate Stewart's fall had no impact on the plot. Danny losing his emotions had no impact on the plot. The Master engineering Clara and the Doctor's reunion had no impact on the plot, etc. Missy simply did exactly what she intended to do, and her plan failed. The end.

I thought the whole thing was really incompetently written. It was dull and unengaging. It's a relatively minor point, but I was also left wondering how people who had never heard of the Brigadeer (or about Thunderbirds - you know, people under 40) felt about the show.

 

[Brent]

And, was it necessary to insult American viewers by saying that their leaders are bumbling fools who resort to prayer in a crisis?

As an American, I noticed this in the episode. It felt a bit out of place, I don't know why it was put in there, it didn't really serve a purpose to the story IMO.

Given that America has just voted back in all the people who don't believe in Evoution, Climate Change, Gun Control, Gay Marriage, Abortion rights etc. etc. you got off lightly...

None of that information about our elections would have been known when the episode was written and filmed. So that is irrelevant, and highly offensive.

 

[StCoop]

None of that information about our elections would have been known when the episode was written and filmed. So that is irrelevant, and highly offensive.

Please don't shoot me.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

As an American, I noticed this in the episode. It felt a bit out of place, I don't know why it was put in there, it didn't really serve a purpose to the story IMO.

Shots at the United States government have been par for the course since it came back. There was nothing new there that wasn't in series 3. Given that, I took it for what it was and didn't read anything more into it. It's a British show and every time they say something like that, it's about having the British (or the British accented Doctor) save the day instead of Americans.

As for prayer. You would agree there's a time and a place for it. If "all they would do is pray" was taken literally, it would almost certainly be counterproductive. They would need people actually trying to solve the crisis. If it helps, just think of it that way. Although the episode strongly hinted there's no heaven, just a giant Time Lord Hard Drive, so slight scolding of prayer is the least of the criticism.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I actually didn't mind that poke at the US there. Its not like its untrue. I also remember the slight problem people had with last year's Day of the Doctor, where Kate Zygon said that the Americans have a knack at rewriting their own history, adding "haven't you seen their movies." I thought then, and still do, that that was entirely true.

Of course, the same show portrays Winston Churchill as relatively tough but benevolent giant... which he certainly wasn't. Benevolent, that is.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

More accurately, one-third of the voting population voted in this midterm election. This was the lowest turnout since 1942. The minority spoke, and the silent majority were elsewhere.

I don't think many of the younger viewers who watched this show would know about Thunderbirds. It hasn't left much of a cultural footprint.

The Brigadier was mentioned and seen in The Sarah Jane Adventures. I don't know how many people have seen this show. (I know that I am one who hasn't. My information is from Tardis.wikia.) He was, also, mentioned in new Doctor Who. I don't know if the younger viewers would be able to connect the painting seen aboard the plane with the man seen in TSJA.

 

[Mr Soak]

So no-one noticed Chaplet Funeral Home? Is the speculation as dead as a Dodo?

 

[Saul]

I don't think many of the younger viewers who watched this show would know about Thunderbirds. It hasn't left much of a cultural footprint.

The same could be then said about Doctor Who until it came back in 2005. Thunderbirds definitely has left a cultural footprint. It was popular during my parents Generation and re-runs during my youth brought it back into the limelight for a new generation of viewers. There is even a new Thunderbird series starting next year and not too long ago I paid a visit to the Thunderbirds cafe, here in Tokyo.

 

[Captaindemotion]

Not all of the jokes in DW need be understood by younger viewers, given the width of its audience. However, I would hazard a guess (totally speculative) that many, if not most UK viewers, would get a reference to Thunderbirds. The series and Anderson puppetry in general, is fairly well-lodged in the collective consciousness.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Not all of the jokes in DW need be understood by younger viewers, given the width of its audience.

Indeed- how many kids got the "Broadsword calling Danny Boy" ref in series 5?

And yeah, I noticed the Chaplet funeral home, but somehow took it as being a dig at her fate in the books, rather than just dead as a Dodo, which was probably the actually intended gag.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

I did some checking on Thunderbirds. There was a film directed by Jonathan Frakes in 2004, which was a box office flop, and a TV series produced between ITV and a New Zealand production company, set to premiere in 2015.

I think it's more accurate to say that Doctor Who has created a larger cultural footprint than Thunderbirds, yet both are very popular and respected franchises.

Returning to the show in question, I have read an article from The Atlantic, where the writer describes Clara Oswald as a

She’s a lying jerk, and under the tutelage of her lying jerk friend the Doctor, becomes an even more accomplished lying jerk.

The writer describes her actions in the two-parter as

Clara Oswald of Doctor Who...responds to the death of her boyfriend Danny Pink in a car accident by committing grand theft, assault, battery, and extortion—all in service of the even greater crime of ripping a hole in the universe. And then she commits (or at least thinks she commits) murder-suicide—the victims being herself and her ostensible best friend, the Doctor.

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertai...eason-where-doctor-who-wasnt-the-star/382531/

 

[Lakenheath 72]

I didn't associate Chaplet Funerary Home with Dodo Chaplet.

According to Wikipedia,

On September 13, 1935, while Faustina was in Vilnius, she wrote of a vision of Jesus about the chaplet in her diary (Notebook 1 item 476). Faustina stated that Jesus asked her to pray the chaplet and instruct others to do so. Although the chaplet is said on beads like the Rosary, it is about a third of the length of the Rosary, and unlike the Rosary that has evolved over the years, the form and structure of the chaplet has remained unchanged since Faustina attributed it to a message from Jesus.

According to Faustina's visions, written in her diary, the chaplet's prayers for mercy are threefold: to obtain mercy, to trust in Christ's mercy, and to show mercy to others. Faustina wrote that Jesus promised that all who recite this chaplet at the hour of death or in the presence of the dying will receive great mercy. She wrote that Jesus said:

"....When they say this Chaplet in the presence of the dying, I will stand between My Father and the dying not as the just judge but as the Merciful Savior."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaplet_of_Divine_Mercy

I know that it wasn't probably the intention of the production team; however, this interpretation of chaplet ties in I think to Danny's merciful act of ending the misery of the dead, allowing the living to continue living, and the boy's return to the real world.

 

[Mr Light]

I'm a big Classic Who fan and I have no idea who Dodo Chaplet is

 

[Doctorwhovian]

She appears toward the end of Hartnell's era, but she's only around for a few stories (most of which are complete) before being rather quickly written off so Ben and Polly could join.

 

[The Wormhole]

Getting back to the "slam" against the Americans, the only thing I thought out of place about it is that in recent years Moffat has been trying hard to appease American audiences, from filming episodes there to even letting them have an early peak at the Day of the Doctor trailer last year at Comic Con. So to have the Doctor refer to them as a bunch of praying fools is something of a dramatic 180-degree turn for Moffat, but I don't have any issues with the line itself. It's a criticism many have made about the US government, including many Americans themselves. Treat it as it is, a cheap gag and move on.

 

[Doctorwhovian]

Did the raining on the graveyards remind anybody of the movie Return Of The Living Dead?