Rate 8x12: Death In Heaven
- Thread starter Lonemagpie
- Start date
They did explain why Missy picked Clara. A bossy Companion who would force the Doctor to go into "hell" to rescue her boyfriend once Missy killed him, thus setting up the unnecessarily elaborate trap he would have walked into anyway when the Cyberman invasion began. 
That being said, how does that connect to Clara being a thousand copies of herself spread throughout time to protect the Doctor? Like many Moffat twists, it's inconsistent and doesn't hold up to logic.
That being said, how does that connect to Clara being a thousand copies of herself spread throughout time to protect the Doctor? Like many Moffat twists, it's inconsistent and doesn't hold up to logic.
They did explain why Missy picked Clara. A bossy Companion who would force the Doctor to go into "hell" to rescue her boyfriend once Missy killed him, thus setting up the unnecessarily elaborate trap he would have walked into anyway when the Cyberman invasion began.
That being said, how does that connect to Clara being a thousand copies of herself spread throughout time to protect the Doctor? Like many Moffat twists, it's inconsistent and doesn't hold up to logic.
Like I said, weak explanation, but taken in your context, that explanation sucks.
I now also know who my favorite companion isn't. I used to think Martha was the worst considering process of elimination, but now Clara might be the worst, considering her overall arc. That's a shame because I actually thought Coleman was a great actress. I also thought the girl playing Martha tried the best she could and actually got better when she joined Unit. By the way, is Martha still a part of Unit? Why didn't we see her last night?
Missy killed Danny?They did explain why Missy picked Clara. A bossy Companion who would force the Doctor to go into "hell" to rescue her boyfriend once Missy killed him, thus setting up the unnecessarily elaborate trap he would have walked into anyway when the Cyberman invasion began.
That being said, how does that connect to Clara being a thousand copies of herself spread throughout time to protect the Doctor? Like many Moffat twists, it's inconsistent and doesn't hold up to logic.
Missy killed Danny?They did explain why Missy picked Clara. A bossy Companion who would force the Doctor to go into "hell" to rescue her boyfriend once Missy killed him, thus setting up the unnecessarily elaborate trap he would have walked into anyway when the Cyberman invasion began.
That being said, how does that connect to Clara being a thousand copies of herself spread throughout time to protect the Doctor? Like many Moffat twists, it's inconsistent and doesn't hold up to logic.
I definitely thought that was implied.
You know I think I might have actually liked this episode... if it wasn't for how aggressively annoying and hammy and over the top the new Master was throughout. I mean, my god, she was awful.
I certainly have no problem with the gender change, and the actress seemed like she was more than capable of playing the character in a more subtle and interesting way. But if THIS is how Moffat wants her to play it then I really hope she never ever comes back. In fact it's surprising because I got the impression the reason they didn't bring back Simm was because Moffat wanted to get away from such a hammy portrayal of the Master, and go for something a bit more serious and believable in the future. So much for that idea.
Anyway, the rest I thought was actually pretty decent. Yeah, the Cybermen rain clouds bringing the dead back to life was a bit much, but no more than some other crazy ideas we've seen in this show. And I did like how it allowed Danny to take control of them in the end for his one final mission.
And I did really like the Doctor's big "I'm an idiot" speech at the end, and his supposedly final meeting with Clara at the diner.
I certainly have no problem with the gender change, and the actress seemed like she was more than capable of playing the character in a more subtle and interesting way. But if THIS is how Moffat wants her to play it then I really hope she never ever comes back. In fact it's surprising because I got the impression the reason they didn't bring back Simm was because Moffat wanted to get away from such a hammy portrayal of the Master, and go for something a bit more serious and believable in the future. So much for that idea.
Anyway, the rest I thought was actually pretty decent. Yeah, the Cybermen rain clouds bringing the dead back to life was a bit much, but no more than some other crazy ideas we've seen in this show. And I did like how it allowed Danny to take control of them in the end for his one final mission.
And I did really like the Doctor's big "I'm an idiot" speech at the end, and his supposedly final meeting with Clara at the diner.
Fine story and all but a bit long in the tooth, I got a little dozy near the end. B.
DW was better, gave it an A.
DW was better, gave it an A.
I thought that narratively she was suppose to represent the know-it-all fan who works out the plot but it does them no good at all...
This is one of those stories where the more you think about it more sloppy you realize it is.
The whole arc of who choose Clara and why was fairly pointless. The Doctor never needs an excuse to get involved. And, he would've been there stopping the invasion anyway.
The is he a good man arc. Yes, of course he is. And, he didn't need Missy to offer him an army to find out.
The Danny arc. Never bought into his character and the relationship with Clara so pinning the resolution on him was weak.
So much wasted time in this story. The Doctor as Clara was a waste of screen time. The whole UNIT plane, Doctor as President of the world, was an interesting and cool setup. But, in the end, all pointless and didn't add to the resolution. It just padded the story out to fill the length. In the classic series, this would've been more time running down corridors!
The wholly too elaborate setup was too kooky and implausible, even for Doctor Who. Rain that transforms dead bodies into Cybermen. And, all of those people who died and were saved, they wouldn't necessarily be evil. And, what was the point of all of those minds if they were simply going to do as they were told? Simple programming would've been enough. None of it fits together.
And, only Danny's mind was digitized, same with the kid who he killed. How did the kid come back? There was no body in the nethersphere.
The story actually bugs me. I hope Moffat gets his shit together before writing another one. I also hope that series 9 is his last one as showrunner. I like a lot of his stuff but I think it's time for a change for the good of the series.
Mr Awe
The whole arc of who choose Clara and why was fairly pointless. The Doctor never needs an excuse to get involved. And, he would've been there stopping the invasion anyway.
The is he a good man arc. Yes, of course he is. And, he didn't need Missy to offer him an army to find out.
The Danny arc. Never bought into his character and the relationship with Clara so pinning the resolution on him was weak.
So much wasted time in this story. The Doctor as Clara was a waste of screen time. The whole UNIT plane, Doctor as President of the world, was an interesting and cool setup. But, in the end, all pointless and didn't add to the resolution. It just padded the story out to fill the length. In the classic series, this would've been more time running down corridors!
The wholly too elaborate setup was too kooky and implausible, even for Doctor Who. Rain that transforms dead bodies into Cybermen. And, all of those people who died and were saved, they wouldn't necessarily be evil. And, what was the point of all of those minds if they were simply going to do as they were told? Simple programming would've been enough. None of it fits together.
And, only Danny's mind was digitized, same with the kid who he killed. How did the kid come back? There was no body in the nethersphere.
The story actually bugs me. I hope Moffat gets his shit together before writing another one. I also hope that series 9 is his last one as showrunner. I like a lot of his stuff but I think it's time for a change for the good of the series.
Mr Awe
I was thinking earlier about how the story would've been much better if instead of every dead person coming back as a Cyberman, it was just people from the Doctor's personal history. That's kind of where I thought it was going when we saw Missy collecting people like the Half-face man and that soldier from the Dalek episode. It would've been such a punch to the gut if the army the Master created for the Doctor was made up solely of people the Doctor had gotten killed.
I'm used to how nuts and unplease-able some of you all are, but thinking that this was an insult to Courtney actually makes me mad.
Well, it's certainly not worth you getting made over. Get a grip!
I don't think it was an insult to Courtney either. What bugs me is that this type of scene was even necessary just because they didn't get their act together and have him on the show while he was still alive!!
While the scene with "him" in Death in Heaven was touching, think how much more meaningful it would've been if there had a been a scene like that while he was still alive.
Mr Awe
I was rather disappointed with the set-up for the Christmas special - I expected a trip to the trenches on 25th December 1914, in line with the BBC's big World War One project that they've been running all year.
The lack of closure with regards to the robot promised land is symptomatic of modern Doctor Who (remember, we never found out how Rose's face ended up on the bus screen in Midnight, or what the Lodger TARDIS was all about). This leaves me wondering what happens to all of the empty graves (remember the cemetery bits in The Hungry Earth) and what else happened after the end of the Saxon premiership (or which Prime Minister was worse than The Master).
Overall, this finale felt like quite a waste: 15 extra minutes yet very little actually happening, it felt rushed and padded at the same time (much like The Time of The Doctor). Furthermore, the Cyber rain (Maybe it works like nanoprobes?) and the "Love is a Promise!" stuff felt cheesy even by Doctor Who standards.
The lack of closure with regards to the robot promised land is symptomatic of modern Doctor Who (remember, we never found out how Rose's face ended up on the bus screen in Midnight, or what the Lodger TARDIS was all about). This leaves me wondering what happens to all of the empty graves (remember the cemetery bits in The Hungry Earth) and what else happened after the end of the Saxon premiership (or which Prime Minister was worse than The Master).
Overall, this finale felt like quite a waste: 15 extra minutes yet very little actually happening, it felt rushed and padded at the same time (much like The Time of The Doctor). Furthermore, the Cyber rain (Maybe it works like nanoprobes?) and the "Love is a Promise!" stuff felt cheesy even by Doctor Who standards.
People seem to be saying the rain/clouds brought people back as cybermen but they are missing the point.
The rain was simply a means of spreading the cybertechnology (pretty much like borg nanoprobes) that did all the work plus if you want to pick on a point, how about cybertechnolgoy able to raise the dead.
As to how if the Master/Mistress put Clara together with the Doctor and what about how she was there are crucial points in the his timeline, put it down as just another one of the Master's overblown plans that backfired.
It wasn't. Why should it be? That was brought on by the fact that Clara went through the Doctor's timestream, which was caused by the Great Intelligence. The only connection I'm aware of is that the Doctor went to Trenzalore after the Master caused the Doctor and Clara to meet.
Missy being the Master was so blindingly obvious I was actually let down when she confirmed it - I thought there would be a twist. And Michelle Gomez was so bad in the part she would've embarrassed a pantomime...
Nick Frost as Santa - now that's typecasting ! Bring it on...
Nick Frost as Santa - now that's typecasting ! Bring it on...
But that wouldn't make sense for the cop that died. The Doctor never even met him. That being said, it probably would have been a good idea to go that route from the beginning. Furthermore, you get to parallel Danny Pink's story with the little boy with the Doctor's story.
My take on that was just that the "Nethersphere" was over-inclusive. It not only kept the minds of people whose bodies would later be brought back, but it took the minds of people who wouldn't. People who were cremated, people who were vaporized, people lost in space, etc.
